AnimeSuki Forums

Westlo · 2008-03-09, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00tness

To be honest, I dont know why Jun refuses to end it with Hiromi. He knows that ther relationship is a farce. The only reason to keep it is because he is afraid that if he breaks off, then Shin will see no reason to keep his end of the bargain.

That's exactly why he doesn't want to brake up, he knew from Hiromi's expression when he told her about Noe that she likes/loves Shin. Than he saw the way Shin hugged Hiromi after the crash, so he's trying to do the right thing for his sister but of course he doesn't realize in the end it will just hurt her when she finds out the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golthin

That is why I changed my opinion about her lying after i saw the reason why she did it. I thought she just did it because she didn't want to have trouble in the household with the mother, but it actually was something much worse.

Hiromi was my fav girl initially but after the ending of episode 3 and the start of 4 combined with Aiko getting more screen time I started preferring Aiko more over the "liar". Of course once I found out why Hiromi lied in the first place she once again became my favorite.

vio5555 · 2008-03-10, 01:02

@ Rick_Grimes, w00tness, Westlo

I think you're all correct with respect to Jun's motivations in this whole dilemma that he faces in the next 3 episodes.

I would further add though that Jun's real motivation behind all of this is to prevent Noe from crying ever again; he's willing to force his relationship with Hiromi at any cost (it seems) because he really doesn't want to see Noe unhappy.

This is why he's so concerned when Noe starts feeling really emotional about Shin, and he realizes that if her feelings aren't answered, she'll be so unhappy that he'll have to see her cry true tears.

In the end though, we as viewers do recognize that he isn't really helping her so much as he is directing her on a path that he believes is safest for her, and though he is totally selfless in his objectives; he pursues it at any cost to himself and others.

We also realize (as Hiromi has) that he spends so much time thinking about Noe that there might just be something more from Jun towards Noe, but that should be clarified in the coming episodes.

twkiwilee · 2008-03-15, 21:27

I really like the character Jun.

Eventhough he has an incestuous feeling for Noe, i really hope and prefer Jun to eventually fall for Hiromi.

I love all his reactions when Hiromi sees through his character/intention (example. when hiromi tells him that he is a siscon)

He's cool and acts tough, but whenever Hiromi's around him, I do see his weakness, and this is the reason why i like his character and prefer the hiromi x jun pairing.

cherrysh · 2008-03-15, 21:44

I really like his character too. (favorite actually)

Well he's really nice to Hiromi and very supporting towards his sister.
But I don't think he sees Noe "that" way, more like he's falling for Hiromi....
Who knows Hiromi could be his first love. lol
dun dun dun...

I'd really like them to end up together.

cloudninja · 2008-03-15, 22:54

Basically there's been no development that would support a Hiromi and Jun pairing.

If you look at the context of what happened in episodes 2-3 along with the rest of the show, Hiromi told the lie about liking Jun because Tomoyo had repeatedly bothered her about liking Shin and she could'nt admit to liking Shin even though she probably wanted to. That was because the lie told by Shin's mother about them possibly being siblings prevented her from admitting that she liked Shin. That's why she was disappointed in episodes 5 and 6 when she saw Shin trying to set her up with Jun. Her lie was only intended for Tomoyo's ears to get her off Hiromi's case but when Shin heard it, the misunderstanding took on a life of its own. She did'nt show any joy in looking forward to her "dates" with Jun and was basically going through the motions. Once she knew that what Shin's mother told her was a lie she did'nt take long before trying to break up the charade of dating Jun.

As for Jun, he dated Hiromi because it would get Shin to go out with Noe. He asked Shin to go out with Noe at the end of episode 4 yet Shin did'nt agree until episode 7 after Jun threatened to stop going out with Hiromi. So he basically got Shin to go out with his sister even though Shin did'nt want to after using his concern for Hiromi as leverage. This was after what happened in episode 6 where Jun found out who Hiromi really liked, that person being Shin. He probably figured out that Shin liked Hiromi as well, if not at that point then definitely by the beginning of episode 9 when Shin embraced Hiromi and showed both Jun and Noe what's really going on. Jun put up the appearance of going out with Hiromi so that Shin would have no reason to break up with Noe. He did'nt show any signs of liking Hiromi until possibly episode 10 where they start to hint that he "might be" starting to like Hiromi.

Anyway, basically Hiromi does'nt like him in that way and Jun "maybe" only very recently is starting to like Hiromi. Combine that with the fact that he knows that Hiromi and Shin like each other a lot yet still tries to get in their way and I would say his chances with Hiromi are virtually nil. I think the show will resolve all the relationships that were entered into for the "wrong" reasons by having them break up so that relationships can be started for the right reasons. It already happened with Aiko and Nobuse. Shin-Noe and Jun-Hiromi should be next to follow in that trend. If I read the intent of the writers correctly, wrongs should be made right in the end, basically it was the lie that Shin's mother told that started this mess and with that gone everything is slowly correcting itself.

Compare that with all the development from the start of the show until now between Shin and Hiromi. It seems most of the time they are thinking about each other and their thoughts and actions have resulted out of their feelings for each other (Shin going out with Noe for Hiromi's sake, his picture book drawings being about Hiromi as noticed by Noe, Hiromi reacting to seeing Shin with Noe since episode 2 through the current episodes, etc).

twkiwilee · 2008-03-16, 00:47

shin is going to end up with noe anyway (or so i think) because she is the last person that hasn't directly kiss shin yet and with the fact that noe is the main character of the show..
and etc..(but who knows?)

mm. i think we should have a thread about pairings

well.. i dont really care about shin, noe, aiko, and not so much about hiromi either (unless she starts liking Jun..then it will be interesting)

but..i do want the happiness of both Jun and Nobuse..

i don't believe Jun will be happy with Noe. He's much happier with hiromi..since he can be himself..

i do want Jun to fall for hiromi as he gets to know her and hope that Jun will do something to win Hiromi's heart

cloudninja, i am aware of the story line and the deal that Jun and Shin has made. i'm just stating what would be a better pairing in my opinion (or maybe that pairing may come true) o_O

hiromi and shin pairing is likely (but then the plot would be dull... it would be a typical anime/drama where childhood friends who eventually become a couple when they grow up)

noe and shin pairing is also likely (this event would be something new...and let them be in their own chicken world for all i care..)

but i just hope jun will end up with somebody and just be happy (but not with noe ...NO NO No)
jun and noe pairing would also be boring...i had enough of incest stories and anime

jaisrh · 2008-03-16, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by twkiwilee

shin is going to end up with noe anyway (or so i think) because she is the last person that hasn't directly kiss shin yet and with the fact that noe is the main character of the show..
and etc..(but who knows?)

mm. i think we should have a thread about pairings

well.. i dont really care about shin, noe, aiko, and not so much about hiromi either (unless she starts liking Jun..then it will be interesting)

but..i do want the happiness of both Jun and Nobuse..

i don't believe Jun will be happy with Noe. He's much happier with hiromi..since he can be himself..

i do want Jun to fall for hiromi as he gets to know her and hope that Jun will do something to win Hiromi's heart

cloudninja, i am aware of the story line and the deal that Jun and Shin has made. i'm just stating what would be a better pairing in my opinion (or maybe that pairing may come true) o_O

hiromi and shin pairing is likely (but then the plot would be dull... it would be a typical anime/drama where childhood friends who eventually become a couple when they grow up)

noe and shin pairing is also likely (this event would be something new...and let them be in their own chicken world for all i care..)

but i just hope jun will end up with somebody and just be happy (but not with noe ...NO NO No)
jun and noe pairing would also be boring...i had enough of incest stories and anime

It's fine to have your own preference as long as you recognize that it's your personal preference vs the story itself that the writers themselves have set up. There are always some viewers that prefer a minor character in every show so that's normal. It's just unlikely that the writers would go to such efforts to continually reinforce the central theme of the story to abandon it at the very end. A story that is inconsistent would be a mess. I've never seen a story that could redeem itself by going against what itself has built up. Generally, either they have a consistent theme that shines through or they have an ambiguous direction that allows anything to happen. This falls into the former type. I think most viewers want consistency in story telling rather than a random inconsistent event to occur late in the show that would only appeal to a minority of viewers.

Just remember that the very first scene of the show had Shin drawing the picture book scene of Hiromi crying and him thinking that she wanted him to wipe her tears away. That has'nt been fully realized yet but I think it will in the end. Shin has'nt addressed Hiromi's growing concern over his relationship with Noe. Shin's second picture book scene was of Noe and therefore her part is closely entertwined with his relationship with Hiromi. It makes sense that Shin would have to deal with Noe as part of "doing everying properly" with Hiromi. Shin realizes that he has hurt Hiromi and Noe among others by not doing things properly beforehand and letting things get this far.

Well, I developed a much larger perspective after reading the posts of many other people here in this forum including the theories that flesh out the overall picture. In the end it's your choice whether to only want to see a narrow slice of the story or appreciate the broader perspective. In the end I expect that the first picture book scene will turn out to be the essence of the story, that it's about a boy (Shin) and the journey he takes in order to be with the girl (Hiromi) that he loves. Everyone and everything else has been built around that. It started with that first picture book scene and will end with the resolution of it.

Westlo · 2008-03-16, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by twkiwilee

shin is going to end up with noe anyway (or so i think) because she is the last person that hasn't directly kiss shin yet and with the fact that noe is the main character of the show..

If you want I could spoil you on about 10 different anime shows where the girl to kiss last loses but whatever. Also yes Noe is a main character of the show but so is Hiromi. You see Hiromi first in the opening while you see Noe first in the ending, Noe is on the cover of the opening single while Hiromi is on the cover of the ending single. The OST cover is a group shot with Aiko, while Noe does have the first DVD cover in Japan that means nothing, just look at who's on the first DVD cover of Kanon 2006 for instance. I haven't seen the DVD covers for Shuffle but after watching the first 4 episodes and knowing who wins I'm 99% positive she isn't on the cover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaisrh

In the end I expect that the first picture book scene will turn out to be the essence of the story, that it's about a boy (Shin) and the journey he takes in order to be the the girl (Hiromi) that he loves. Everyone and everything else has been built around that. It started with that first picture book scene and will end with the resolution of it.

I hope it ends that way since it would be an example of nice consistent writing, I would be disappointed if they throw in a curve ball just for the sake of it.

vio5555 · 2008-03-16, 12:17

I've got to agree with the arguments laid out by cloudninja and jaisrh here.

Although people were certainly the argument earlier on that there might have been something between Hiromi and Jun based on her answering of the initial question of who she liked which was overheard by Shin, we know by the later episodes 8-11 that "No.4" was basically just a socially acceptable answer.

Also, Jun's reaction to Hiromi's earliest break up attempts demonstrated a total lack of care for any kind of feelings between them since he said "That would be troubling to me..." with the effect of analyzing their relationship from a completely detached view. It's fairly obvious that he was only in that relationship to tie Hiromi down so that Noe could make an attempt to win Shin over.

twkiwilee · 2008-03-16, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaisrh

It's fine to have your own preference as long as you recognize that it's your personal preference vs the story itself that the writers themselves have set up.

I agree. I know that there is a high chance that the writers of this anime may not go my way and I'm actually fine with that. I don't really mind hiromi end up with shin (actually in episode one and/or two, that was my prefered pairing..but then Jun came into scene..and yea..i changed my perspective)

Actually i also had read many discussion regarding true tears pairings and your statements sound awfully similar to what i had read in other forums and blogs

so im not that narrowminded and unknowledgeable..

Westlo: Actually, I am aware of some main characters don't end up together. I remember i have read that somewhere in other blogs long time ago. I guess i have to reword what i say or actually put more statement into what i know.

----------------------------

But anyhow, I felt sad for Jun. He's not happy as of these 11 episodes. He's struggling.

Poor Jun

ani_d · 2008-03-17, 19:07

I have a feeling Jun and Noe aren't really related. They don't even look alike. They didn't even show us a proper background of Jun and Noe's family. Why would Jun be portrayed as a siscon anyway? And why would the writers want him to be like that? Are they promoting incest or something? I'd like to think the writers are better than that. That or I'm just deluding myself. More so than seeing who that loser Shin picks in the end, I want to see how they're going to conclude Jun's sister complex. More spotlight on the hotter guy.

vio5555 · 2008-03-17, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ani_d

I have a feeling Jun and Noe aren't really related. They don't even look alike. They didn't even show us a proper background of Jun and Noe's family. Why would Jun be portrayed as a siscon anyway? And why would the writers want him to be like that? Are they promoting incest or something? I'd like to think the writers are better than that. That or I'm just deluding myself. More so than seeing who that loser Shin picks in the end, I want to see how they're going to conclude Jun's sister complex. More spotlight on the hotter guy.

I don't see why it has anything to do with any sort of taboo kind of incest or siscon tendencies to be honest. All he thinks about 24/7 is her..., his obsession over her needs borders on the absurd when you consider the lengths he goes to for her.

Also, the way he's been written is that he seems to be a big part of the reason why Noe has been so overprotected to the point of not really fully developing after she "lost her tears", since he always seems to be there to make sure nothing changes in her happy little world, until she met Shin of course.

germanturkey · 2008-03-17, 21:45

for some reason, the idea of Jun saying his line to the captain of the b-ball team popped into my head. i don't know why. my mood will turn incredibly sour if he does steal Hiromi away from Shin and the final pairing is Shin x Noe.

vio5555 · 2008-03-17, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanturkey

for some reason, the idea of Jun saying his line to the captain of the b-ball team popped into my head. i don't know why. my mood will turn incredibly sour if he does steal Hiromi away from Shin and the final pairing is Shin x Noe.

At this point a JunxHiromi ending looks nearly impossible. I don't see how she backs off the words that she said to him in ep 11. Those kinds of words aren't anywhere near forgivable in a short period of time...

If it does go ShinxNoe, it's pretty much guaranteed that Hiromi ends up alone; the pace the writers have set in doesn't really allow her to end up with some kind of Ai/Nobuse-style reconciliation with Jun; especially not after she iced him with those statements in ep 11.

I think we just have to wait and see how Jun acts on what Hiromi has told him; that might be the key to a lot of what happens now.

2008-03-15, 22:54	Link #65
cloudninja Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	Basically there's been no development that would support a Hiromi and Jun pairing. If you look at the context of what happened in episodes 2-3 along with the rest of the show, Hiromi told the lie about liking Jun because Tomoyo had repeatedly bothered her about liking Shin and she could'nt admit to liking Shin even though she probably wanted to. That was because the lie told by Shin's mother about them possibly being siblings prevented her from admitting that she liked Shin. That's why she was disappointed in episodes 5 and 6 when she saw Shin trying to set her up with Jun. Her lie was only intended for Tomoyo's ears to get her off Hiromi's case but when Shin heard it, the misunderstanding took on a life of its own. She did'nt show any joy in looking forward to her "dates" with Jun and was basically going through the motions. Once she knew that what Shin's mother told her was a lie she did'nt take long before trying to break up the charade of dating Jun. As for Jun, he dated Hiromi because it would get Shin to go out with Noe. He asked Shin to go out with Noe at the end of episode 4 yet Shin did'nt agree until episode 7 after Jun threatened to stop going out with Hiromi. So he basically got Shin to go out with his sister even though Shin did'nt want to after using his concern for Hiromi as leverage. This was after what happened in episode 6 where Jun found out who Hiromi really liked, that person being Shin. He probably figured out that Shin liked Hiromi as well, if not at that point then definitely by the beginning of episode 9 when Shin embraced Hiromi and showed both Jun and Noe what's really going on. Jun put up the appearance of going out with Hiromi so that Shin would have no reason to break up with Noe. He did'nt show any signs of liking Hiromi until possibly episode 10 where they start to hint that he "might be" starting to like Hiromi. Anyway, basically Hiromi does'nt like him in that way and Jun "maybe" only very recently is starting to like Hiromi. Combine that with the fact that he knows that Hiromi and Shin like each other a lot yet still tries to get in their way and I would say his chances with Hiromi are virtually nil. I think the show will resolve all the relationships that were entered into for the "wrong" reasons by having them break up so that relationships can be started for the right reasons. It already happened with Aiko and Nobuse. Shin-Noe and Jun-Hiromi should be next to follow in that trend. If I read the intent of the writers correctly, wrongs should be made right in the end, basically it was the lie that Shin's mother told that started this mess and with that gone everything is slowly correcting itself. Compare that with all the development from the start of the show until now between Shin and Hiromi. It seems most of the time they are thinking about each other and their thoughts and actions have resulted out of their feelings for each other (Shin going out with Noe for Hiromi's sake, his picture book drawings being about Hiromi as noticed by Noe, Hiromi reacting to seeing Shin with Noe since episode 2 through the current episodes, etc). Last edited by cloudninja; 2008-03-16 at 00:26.

2008-03-10, 01:02	Link #62
vio5555 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	@ Rick_Grimes, w00tness, Westlo I think you're all correct with respect to Jun's motivations in this whole dilemma that he faces in the next 3 episodes. I would further add though that Jun's real motivation behind all of this is to prevent Noe from crying ever again; he's willing to force his relationship with Hiromi at any cost (it seems) because he really doesn't want to see Noe unhappy. This is why he's so concerned when Noe starts feeling really emotional about Shin, and he realizes that if her feelings aren't answered, she'll be so unhappy that he'll have to see her cry true tears. In the end though, we as viewers do recognize that he isn't really helping her so much as he is directing her on a path that he believes is safest for her, and though he is totally selfless in his objectives; he pursues it at any cost to himself and others. We also realize (as Hiromi has) that he spends so much time thinking about Noe that there might just be something more from Jun towards Noe, but that should be clarified in the coming episodes.

2008-03-15, 21:27	Link #63
twkiwilee Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	I really like the character Jun. Eventhough he has an incestuous feeling for Noe, i really hope and prefer Jun to eventually fall for Hiromi. I love all his reactions when Hiromi sees through his character/intention (example. when hiromi tells him that he is a siscon) He's cool and acts tough, but whenever Hiromi's around him, I do see his weakness, and this is the reason why i like his character and prefer the hiromi x jun pairing.

2008-03-15, 21:44	Link #64
cherrysh Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	I really like his character too. (favorite actually) Well he's really nice to Hiromi and very supporting towards his sister. But I don't think he sees Noe "that" way, more like he's falling for Hiromi.... Who knows Hiromi could be his first love. lol dun dun dun... I'd really like them to end up together.

2008-03-16, 00:47	Link #66
twkiwilee Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	shin is going to end up with noe anyway (or so i think) because she is the last person that hasn't directly kiss shin yet and with the fact that noe is the main character of the show.. and etc..(but who knows?) mm. i think we should have a thread about pairings well.. i dont really care about shin, noe, aiko, and not so much about hiromi either (unless she starts liking Jun..then it will be interesting) but..i do want the happiness of both Jun and Nobuse.. i don't believe Jun will be happy with Noe. He's much happier with hiromi..since he can be himself.. i do want Jun to fall for hiromi as he gets to know her and hope that Jun will do something to win Hiromi's heart cloudninja, i am aware of the story line and the deal that Jun and Shin has made. i'm just stating what would be a better pairing in my opinion (or maybe that pairing may come true) o_O hiromi and shin pairing is likely (but then the plot would be dull... it would be a typical anime/drama where childhood friends who eventually become a couple when they grow up) noe and shin pairing is also likely (this event would be something new...and let them be in their own chicken world for all i care..) but i just hope jun will end up with somebody and just be happy (but not with noe ...NO NO No) jun and noe pairing would also be boring...i had enough of incest stories and anime

2008-03-16, 12:17	Link #69
vio5555 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	I've got to agree with the arguments laid out by cloudninja and jaisrh here. Although people were certainly the argument earlier on that there might have been something between Hiromi and Jun based on her answering of the initial question of who she liked which was overheard by Shin, we know by the later episodes 8-11 that "No.4" was basically just a socially acceptable answer. Also, Jun's reaction to Hiromi's earliest break up attempts demonstrated a total lack of care for any kind of feelings between them since he said "That would be troubling to me..." with the effect of analyzing their relationship from a completely detached view. It's fairly obvious that he was only in that relationship to tie Hiromi down so that Noe could make an attempt to win Shin over.

2008-03-17, 19:07	Link #71
ani_d Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 38	I have a feeling Jun and Noe aren't really related. They don't even look alike. They didn't even show us a proper background of Jun and Noe's family. Why would Jun be portrayed as a siscon anyway? And why would the writers want him to be like that? Are they promoting incest or something? I'd like to think the writers are better than that. That or I'm just deluding myself. More so than seeing who that loser Shin picks in the end, I want to see how they're going to conclude Jun's sister complex. More spotlight on the hotter guy.

2008-03-17, 21:45	Link #73
germanturkey Udon-YAAAAAAAA Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 35	for some reason, the idea of Jun saying his line to the captain of the b-ball team popped into my head. i don't know why. my mood will turn incredibly sour if he does steal Hiromi away from Shin and the final pairing is Shin x Noe.