Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 30 Discussion

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Sides

Think I am going to like the cast, Captain Natora for the win!
Really nice to see the AGE builder back in action. What surprised me was seeing Madorna on board a federation vessel is chief engineer. Was kind of expecting he would be with Asemu.

I think it's to show that the Federation had put the DIVA into a "reserve" group and as a result it lost it's place to have a decent crew onboard. That's a very lax bridge crew if I ever saw one.

Probably to show that Flit and the Federation have fallen out and such.

On that matter it's nice to see though that it's balanced out by having a strong MS team onboard compared to last season.

And yes Captain Natora for the win.

The Childerns, i hate them in the original Gundam 0079 and still hate them... why Level-5 why? that was sunrise pressure? those childern would have been less pesky in the Flit generation but not now... unless there will be so blood here than those childerns are the comedy effect... but still i hate them

Why do they have kids onboard anyways?

Because of the time skips this show is weak in character development so why add more?

Zeheart did achieve a huge increase in his EFF casualties tally, especially after commanding Fa Zeos to shell the city below (which the episode focused on two or three times). Ezelcant indoctrinated him well.

Well it was pretty evident that the Vagan's goal was to cleanse the Earth of the puny earthlings.

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Why do they have kids onboard anyways?

Because of the time skips this show is weak in character development so why add more?
.

I have the opposite reason, the time skips are only weak for the 'evolution'(that word is a little oxymoron, we see a history waiting how the character...develop, but only evolution or Develop are enough) of the main characther(again, that must happen on-screen,mostly), but go wonder for the side-character(like Lagran,Woolf,now Obright and maybe Max), again, for the homage to original Gundam, those three childer(aka Kazt et all, Vista Version), would have great,one would have become a bridge bunny, other a mechanical and other a mauve shirt by Asemu years and their sons or grandson in their place by Kio years...

But not now in the final generation(so be confirmed), those are only dead weight, with not impact beside comedy relief...and that along is Insufficient...

[Revolutionist]

This episode did nothing to improve Flit's image, the guy's a bigger asshole than ever. The only character he wasn't a dick to was his grandson, and that's because he needs Kio to listen to him so he can feed him all that hatred and desire for revenge. I'm sure that'll change the moment the kid meets Ms Farsia pilot and starts to question grandpa's ultimate goal.

[Laevatein]

You know, it's likely that in one of the Super Robot Wars games, Natora Einus will end up meeting Quattro Baggina and Jamitov Hyman...

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Nivek von Beldo

I have the opposite reason, the time skips are only weak for the 'evolution'(that word is a little oxymoron, we see a history waiting how the character...develop, but only evolution or Develop are enough) of the main characther(again, that must happen on-screen,mostly), but go wonder for the side-character(like Lagran,Woolf,now Obright and maybe Max), again, for the homage to original Gundam, those three childer(aka Kazt et all, Vista Version), would have great,one would have become a bridge bunny, other a mechanical and other a mauve shirt by Asemu years and their sons or grandson in their place by Kio years...

But not now in the final generation(so be confirmed), those are only dead weight, with not impact beside comedy relief...and that along is Insufficient...

Yeah that's the thing. This is the final season so the kids are more or less dead weight and we probably won't even see them that much at all. Unless we see one more time skip in the last 5 episodes for some big ass battle but Flit would probably be dead by that point (Age I mean) or bed-ridden.

This episode did nothing to improve Flit's image, the guy's a bigger asshole than ever. The only character he wasn't a dick to was his grandson, and that's because he needs Kio to listen to him so he can feed him all that hatred and desire for revenge. I'm sure that'll change the moment the kid meets Ms Farsia pilot and starts to question grandpa's ultimate goal.

As others have stated the Vagans haven't exactly done anything to garner sympathy for their cause. I mean your okay with the Vagans gunning down innocent civilians (which in the process would create 10,000+ more Flit Asunos) but the second Flit even "thinks" or acts angrily he's the same level as Satan?

Flit doesn't even need to do anything to garner hatred for the Vagans. The Vagans are already doing it for them.

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Yeah that's the thing. This is the final season so the kids are more or less dead weight and we probably won't even see them that much at all. Unless we see one more time skip in the last 5 episodes for some big ass battle but Flit would probably be dead by that point (Age I mean) or bed-ridden.



As others have stated the Vagans haven't exactly done anything to garner sympathy for their cause. I mean your okay with the Vagans gunning down innocent civilians (which in the process would create 10,000+ more Flit Asunos) but the second Flit even "thinks" or acts angrily he's the same level as Satan?

Flit doesn't even need to do anything to garner hatred for the Vagans. The Vagans are already doing it for them.

Yes, that is my pov.

Don't bother with Revolutionist, He is the pro-vagan here, simple can understand the theme in Flit(the circle of hate in renovation and how deconstruct the idea of a 'Hero' for a faction... because it is WAR), in general Flit was pretty 'clean' in all the time screen(even with the Purge) and still we only at halfway anyway.

(Still Waiting for a bomb from the Vegan to him)

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Yeah that's the thing. This is the final season so the kids are more or less dead weight and we probably won't even see them that much at all. Unless we see one more time skip in the last 5 episodes for some big ass battle but Flit would probably be dead by that point (Age I mean) or bed-ridden.



As others have stated the Vagans haven't exactly done anything to garner sympathy for their cause. I mean your okay with the Vagans gunning down innocent civilians (which in the process would create 10,000+ more Flit Asunos) but the second Flit even "thinks" or acts angrily he's the same level as Satan?

Flit doesn't even need to do anything to garner hatred for the Vagans. The Vagans are already doing it for them.

As I have repeatedly said before, the Vagans actions have been despicable all throughout the series. So don't attribute things to me that I didn't say.

My point has always been that if his intent is to wipe out ALL the Vagans as he's said several times, then he's no better than Ezelcant.

Who knows, maybe Ezelcant grew up without a mother and father, maybe he lost other people clsoe to him because of the disease. Does that justify him killing civilians on Earth? No. Does Flit's suffering justify him killing all the Vagans? No.

two wrongs don't make a right.
Is that too difficult to understand?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

As I have repeatedly said before, the Vagans actions have been despicable all throughout the series. So don't attribute things to me that I didn't say.

Oh spare me. The second Flit speaks a single phrase you take it out of context and make him out worse than Hitler. I'm surprised you haven't critized him for breathing air. You talk about the Vagans having a noble cause and all. It's okay for them to wipe people out but it's NOT okay for Flit being mad about it.

My point has always been that if his intent is to wipe out ALL the Vagans as he's said several times, then he's no better than Ezelcant.

Who knows, maybe Ezelcant grew up without a mother and father, maybe he lost other people clsoe to him because of the disease. Does that justify him killing civilians on Earth? No. Does Flit's suffering justify him killing all the Vagans? No.

two wrongs don't make a right.
Is that too difficult to understand?

And like I keep saying Flit has yet to actually fall into any of those things that you keep talking about and so far the only Vagans in the vicinity are the ones attacking Earth. The Civilians unless something changed are way back on Mars which is way out of Earth's reach.

So how is it too difficult to understand where the rest of us are coming from?

Has Flit gassed a colony? No. He acted quickly and decisively to put an end to it ASAP before it got worse. He's made the mistake of damaging a colony when he was a kid.

When Flit got a hold of Vagan tech that boosted X-rounder what did he do? He locked it away. Asemu wanted to use it but Flit adamantly refused because he didn't want his son to take unnecessary risks. By your definition of Flit he shouldn't have hesitated to use it on Asemu to win at all costs.

The Prime Minister? Flit had every right to purge the traitors in the Federation just like any other nation in wartime would do. They betrayed the people that voted them into power and helped the enemies make weapons for them to use to kill their own people. If the Federation's crime against traitors is death then Flit was just carrying out the law.

The most recent battle? Flit trained Kio well for the upcoming battles and we see that it was a good investment. When it came to taking out that Giant MA what did Flit do? He told Kio to be careful since if it exploded it would take out the entire city block with it.

So again, what's so difficult about where we're coming from?

Why is it wrong for Flit to be angry with the Vagans? Hell it'll take a miracle to sell peace to Earth after all the massacres and destruction with the ethnic cleansing they're doing.

Don't bother with Revolutionist, He is the pro-vagan here, simple can understand the theme in Flit(the circle of hate in renovation and how deconstruct the idea of a 'Hero' for a faction... because it is WAR), in general Flit was pretty 'clean' in all the time screen(even with the Purge) and still we only at halfway anyway.

I just hate hypocrites. When the Vagans wipe out cities and gun down children he lectures Flit that he shouldn't be angry

I mean seriously

Ezelcant wants to create a world without wars, or disease for his people, and all the Vagans are working towards that goal. Flit wants to exterminate all the Vagans because they killed his mother, and robbed him of his childhood and friends. That's a very selfish and egotistical; he may throw around words like good, justice, righteousness, but he's none of that. He's a monster.


He paints the Vagans and Ezelcant out as noble whose methods involve ethnic cleansing and brainwashing his men to follow him to death yet talks about Flit being a monster for wanting to "hurt" the Vagans back. Flit never talked about justice, as stated already the whole purpose of the AGE was to be a saviour for the people of Earth as it did in the past.

They had the upper tiers of the Federation in their pockets. They could've easily have taken control and get favourable terms for themselves but they didn't because their whole goal is to wipe out all earthlings.

(Still Waiting for a bomb from the Vegan to him)

Do you think the Vagans have started bringing their mars colony to Earth? That's the only way I see a situation happening between Flit and Kio.

[Revolutionist]

Oh spare me. The second Flit speaks a single phrase you take it out of context and make him out worse than Hitler. I'm surprised you haven't critized him for breathing air. You talk about the Vagans having a noble cause and all. It's okay for them to wipe people out but it's NOT okay for Flit being mad about it.

He literally said he wanted to exterminate them all, that's not me taking things out of context. I never said the Vagans had a noble cause, that's just you once more putting words in my mouth. I also never said it was OK for the Vagans to kill civilians, in fact I criticized it since day one. That's a fact you keep conveniently ignoring.

Why is it wrong for Flit to be angry with the Vagans? Hell it'll take a miracle to sell peace to Earth after all the massacres and destruction with the ethnic cleansing they're doing.

When did I say it was wrong for him to be angry? He has every right to be angry and it's perfectly justifiable. I can relate to that, but what I can't relate to is using that anger to justify genocide.

I just hate hypocrites. When the Vagans wipe out cities and gun down children he lectures Flit that he shouldn't be angry

I mean seriously

Ezelcant wants to create a world without wars, or disease for his people, and all the Vagans are working towards that goal. Flit wants to exterminate all the Vagans because they killed his mother, and robbed him of his childhood and friends. That's a very selfish and egotistical; he may throw around words like good, justice, righteousness, but he's none of that. He's a monster.


He paints the Vagans and Ezelcant out as noble whose methods involve ethnic cleansing and brainwashing his men to follow him to death yet talks about Flit being a monster for wanting to "hurt" the Vagans back. Flit never talked about justice, as stated already the whole purpose of the AGE was to be a saviour for the people of Earth as it did in the past.

They had the upper tiers of the Federation in their pockets. They could've easily have taken control and get favourable terms for themselves but they didn't because their whole goal is to wipe out all earthlings.

Then you must really hate yourself, because you just did exactly what you were falsely accusing me of doing.

All I've said, including in that quote you took out of context was based on what the show portrayed. Ezelcant said he wanted to create that world of peace, he never said that to do that he would exterminate all those who aren't Vagan, and Flit did throw the words justice and righteous around quite a few times. In his eyes, he is the righteous and just one, the Vagans are inhuman and evil monsters Seriously, rewatch the episodes.

[ars89]

Man how does Flit not get any respect anymore. Nice to see Obright back in the diva. Interesting that Rody is in charge of the age system. The Abis team seems to be better as a whole than past teams on the diva. That crew is a disgrace to the diva though. Who is Natora supposed to be the grand-daughter of again? Too bad that attachment was only good for one shot, it was awesome.

[FlareKnight]

At least that weapon is finally called a cannon. Do find it funny though with all the talk last episode about how ware parts were in danger when being shot out that there was nothing defending this attachment going into the exact same circumstances.

Well guess somethings haven't changed with this older Flit. Not like they make an argument against it, but still does consider the Vagans not to be human. Not to mention he pretty much treated the captain as well as he did Asemu in his arc. Like the girl didn't have enough to deal with she'll have Flit constantly being a negative presence. Is he really dumb enough not to realize that they threw someone without experience or confidence into the role?

If anything the last scene showed how Flit has done a good job creating his perfect weapon this time around. There are no doubts with Kio unlike Asemu and of course Kio has nothing to base the belief that the Vagans aren't all evil on. Kind of worried where things might go here. Kio really does look up to his grandfather and his gundam. Whatever Flit says will be treated like the absolute truth.

The new captain sure has a lot on her shoulders. A crew made up of all the troublemakers that could be found, her own doubts and inexperience, having someone like Flit who though retired is likely to tell her how to run her ship, and a kid piloting a Gundam . About the only ally she is going to have is the pilots on the ship. At least their leader seems like a rational guy.

Looks like Obright has tightened up things. Guess waving death flags around and having the girl you like get killed will do that. Suppose he'll be good for suicide missions.

What is Rody doing on the Diva though? Shouldn't he be running a business somewhere?

Kind of disappointed with Zeheart. Thought we'd get some confusion on his part about Asemu not being there, but he didn't seem to notice.

[kakakka]

It's kind of funny how he says that line that he doesn't feel fear.

It's like he already welcomes his protection from death, after what happened with Remi (deflecting death flags and all).

[bighawke5]

I think this is my first post here, although i've been a big lurker, so here goes.

Its funny some see the vagans here in a noble light...but not surprising seeing everyone sees the same things differently.

What i will say though is, the earth fed was wrong to leave those colonists back on mars, thus started this whole war because as we all know karma comes back to bite you in the you know what.

Now the vagans wanting to come back to earth because it used to be their motherland too is not evil at all and in fact they have the right to come back (I don't think there was a law prohibiting them from doing so). But NOOO what do they do instead? they come back to earth bearing knives and weapons on mass destruction and unleash they hatred on earth even the innocents.

Sure you can argue they have the right to be angry and carry hatred, i would too...but they also had the option to come back to earth and start anew again with their technological advances and be even better than those that stayed on earth. Even better is they would be living on their so called "Heaven"promised place.
Wether the earth fed didn't allow it or not is left to the imagination, but at least if they refused and tried to black mail them leading the vagans to then go to war for it then they would have at least been in the right.

But wanting to come back and and commit genocide and complete cleansing/eradication on all earth ppl even the innocents for payback, is evil...and IF THOSE pro-vagans wan to talk about "two wrongs don't make a right" this is where it should have applied first.

Now we have flit who is against the genocide of mankind and about revenge for his family. I do think that he's mostly against them for their evil ways. If you dont see that evil i'm talking about then this episode should have made it clear with ezelcant himself taking matters into his own hands finally on the main stage with his true MASTER plan being told to all mankind in giant 3d.

Flit is in the right for wanting to destroy all vagans and this is akin to if aliens came to earth and started killing everyone, would you pro-vagans sit there stating we're in the wrong if we want to wipe them all out?

None of the vagans thus far have shown higher level thinking as in independant autonomy aside from ezelcant's ideals.. NONE of them thinks differently from ezelcant. They are akin to puppets of mass destruction themselves so there's no "lets have a talk, or there's another way... or not all vagans are evil"...

flit wanting to wipe out all vagans is for the good of all mankind on earth, but thats wasn't always the same for ezelcant since he could have chosen to not retaliate as i mentioned above, and both have a piece of heaven and the well being of his people.
What he's doing now might be for the good of the vagans but how good is it for those of the earth?

At this point the earth ppl are already on earth, you the vagans are foreign and already did wrong by waging war marking yourselves as the enemy when you were the victims and could have used that "victim card" to start anew.

Now both side are fighting for their people and you can't call flit evil because he wants to protect his kins, nor call ezelcant evil for wanting to do the same, but ezelcant had a chance as i stated earlier to be "seen in the Right" before they attacked earth in AG101...that mistake makes them the evil ones now because he chose revenge instead of the "well being and a future for his people".
Had he chosen that, his ppl could have come back to earth and co-habit with they advanced technology and make a name for their race and be able to live in their so called heaven...

flit instead made his priority"protecting" even though a close second was "revenge"...because his ppl were the ones being attacked so he has to right to eradicate that evil who think as one(the vagans). ezelcant has no right to eradicated the earth ppl because he's already the enemy, where he the victim like earth is right now he would have that right.

[maplehurry]

I have a dream SoD and Revol would drop their circular arguments one day...

[magnumcyclonex]

My thoughts:

I absolutely loved the AGE system making the new weapon scene. Really impressive. I wished they showed this in the previous two generations.

New captain is really not all there yet. Great for character development, but disappointing for military standards.

Question:
Is the Vagan invasion world wide or centered only where Kio and co. are? If it is a planetary invasion, shouldn't it be directed against several nations (or landmasses) in the Earth Federation?

Final comment:
Glad to see that the mobile suit crew are actually professionals, skillful and confident.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by bighawke5

Spoiler for Save Space:

I think this is my first post here, although i've been a big lurker, so here goes.

Its funny some see the vagans here in a noble light...but not surprising seeing everyone sees the same things differently.

What i will say though is, the earth fed was wrong to leave those colonists back on mars, thus started this whole war because as we all know karma comes back to bite you in the you know what.

Now the vagans wanting to come back to earth because it used to be their motherland too is not evil at all and in fact they have the right to come back (I don't think there was a law prohibiting them from doing so). But NOOO what do they do instead? they come back to earth bearing knives and weapons on mass destruction and unleash they hatred on earth even the innocents.

Sure you can argue they have the right to be angry and carry hatred, i would too...but they also had the option to come back to earth and start anew again with their technological advances and be even better than those that stayed on earth. Even better is they would be living on their so called "Heaven"promised place.
Wether the earth fed didn't allow it or not is left to the imagination, but at least if they refused and tried to black mail them leading the vagans to then go to war for it then they would have at least been in the right.

But wanting to come back and and commit genocide and complete cleansing/eradication on all earth ppl even the innocents for payback, is evil...and IF THOSE pro-vagans wan to talk about "two wrongs don't make a right" this is where it should have applied first.

Now we have flit who is against the genocide of mankind and about revenge for his family. I do think that he's mostly against them for their evil ways. If you dont see that evil i'm talking about then this episode should have made it clear with ezelcant himself taking matters into his own hands finally on the main stage with his true MASTER plan being told to all mankind in giant 3d.

Flit is in the right for wanting to destroy all vagans and this is akin to if aliens came to earth and started killing everyone, would you pro-vagans sit there stating we're in the wrong if we want to wipe them all out?

None of the vagans thus far have shown higher level thinking as in independant autonomy aside from ezelcant's ideals.. NONE of them thinks differently from ezelcant. They are akin to puppets of mass destruction themselves so there's no "lets have a talk, or there's another way... or not all vagans are evil"...

flit wanting to wipe out all vagans is for the good of all mankind on earth, but thats wasn't always the same for ezelcant since he could have chosen to not retaliate as i mentioned above, and both have a piece of heaven and the well being of his people.
What he's doing now might be for the good of the vagans but how good is it for those of the earth?

At this point the earth ppl are already on earth, you the vagans are foreign and already did wrong by waging war marking yourselves as the enemy when you were the victims and could have used that "victim card" to start anew.

Now both side are fighting for their people and you can't call flit evil because he wants to protect his kins, nor call ezelcant evil for wanting to do the same, but ezelcant had a chance as i stated earlier to be "seen in the Right" before they attacked earth in AG101...that mistake makes them the evil ones now because he chose revenge instead of the well being and a future for his people. which could have been accomplished had they decided to come back to earth and co-habit with they advanced technology and make a name for their race...

flit instead made his priority"protecting" even though a close second was "revenge"...because his ppl were the ones being attacked so he has to right to eradicate that evil which thinks as one(vagans).

So Vagan genocide evil, Flit genocide good, ok thanks for clearing that up.

The problem with the Vagans initially coming back was the fact that no one knew they existed. Plus if there are all these colonies around the Earth it's hard to believe a massive group of people can just move back without issue. Very possible we've got some population control in place. Of course shouldn't have been a problem later. Sadly by that point a crazy leader emerged and took things to a point where peace talks weren't going to happen.

So since we haven't seen good people with the Vagans we should commit genocide? It's certainly not possible at all that the leadership would only advance those who shared their beliefs right? That'd be like saying in WW2 all Germans should have been killed because all that the Allies met in battle were Nazi soldiers.

Personally I'd love to find where these people putting the Vagans in a noble light are. Why is it so hard for people to figure out that both Flit and Ezelcant can be wrong? The Federation started off wrong with leaving those people in that situation. Then the Vagans did the wrong thing in getting revenge and trying to forcefully take Earth for themselves. And Flit is wrong for the path he's going down. We have no idea what the people on Mars actually know about things. Easy enough to tell them that the people on Earth are a bunch of evil villains who are laughing it up on Earth while intentionally leaving them there. If the leaders don't tell them differently. Only advance those either willing to commit genocide themselves or are simply bad guys and you've got yourself a despicable army. All you need to do is tell the soldiers they are removing evil people to make room for their families who will be saved from further tragedy.

Both sides are going in the wrong direction here.

Originally Posted by maplehurry

I have a dream SoD and Revol would drop their circular arguments one day...

That's a beautiful dream. Unfortunately the worst part of circular arguments is that no one will ever stop. Still good to dream though.

[Setsuna Asuka]

What do people have against a "Revenge Is Justified" end?

It worked well in gunxsword

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Setsuna Asuka

What do people have against a "Revenge Is Justified" end?

It worked well in gunxsword

Name the last time revenge really worked out in the overall scheme of things in Gundam.

[Duo Maxwell]

So all Flit has done is saying he will exterminate the Vagan, and people think he's a bigger asshole than the Vagan? Really?

[flack]

I don't get it, why did Vagan prioritize in attacking civilians?