Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[andyjay729]

Why oh why is there only one season of this? Things are heating up in an interesting and scary way, but with all the buildup, I don't know if any ending, whether happy or sad, could possibly be satisfactory. They really shouldn't have dithered around so much during the show's midpoint.

And once again, Lukkage proves that in anime, you can't assume someone's dead until you see the body. (When she first crawled out of the lobster, did anyone else at first think that was just her limp body falling out?)

[andyjay729]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

He's eager because its a stability he's known before. It won't last, at least I don't think he will.

Or perhaps he's afraid of being senmetsu-ed by Striker. And yes, I would agree his psyche is still badly damaged.

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

Gah, Ledo is somewhat regressing. After the mind screw of the Hideauze, he's falling back on the closest stable thing in his mind: command. What happens in the next two episodes depends on him: will he blindly stay with Kugel despite his doubts or will he break away and forge his own path with what he's learned? Despite the missteps of this series, the next two eps will be interesting indeed

I believe the disconnect exemplifies what Ledo's experiences among the Gargantians have done for his mental state, in contrast to the logical yet aloof path chosen by his superior. Kugel never left his cockpit, while Ledo did; Kugel lived among his fellows as a god-figure, while Ledo lived among the Gargantians as slightly eccentric yet likable person.

Locked up in Striker, Kugel never changed from what he was, while Ledo began to value humanity as an individual to some extent, thus that was perhaps why he was so distraught initially by discovering the Hidueaze were humans.

It still does not change the fact that he has been conditioned to follow orders since the day he was born; I do not see him falling so easily in line with Kugel as something weird, it is what he has been doing for a long while, and up until a few months ago, what he believed his life will always be like. We will see whether a few months or so of living as a "individual" can challenge years of military conditioning.

[Mangaka-chan]

This episode was pretty ominous with the cult Krugel built and the new social order he installed. The seated people (?) wrapped in white cloth and tied with ropes that Pinion passed by worries me, because 1) that looks insidious and 2) the people around them were all smiling in an eerie way.

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by Mangaka-chan

This episode was pretty ominous with the cult Krugel built and the new social order he installed. The seated people (?) wrapped in white cloth and tied with ropes that Pinion passed by worries me, because 1) that looks insidious and 2) the people around them were all smiling in an eerie way.

Perhaps they were people on their way to the incinerator, like what happened to poor Ledo's brother?

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by LystAP

I believe the disconnect exemplifies what Ledo's experiences among the Gargantians have done for his mental state, in contrast to the logical yet aloof path chosen by his superior. Kugel never left his cockpit, while Ledo did; Kugel lived among his fellows as a god-figure, while Ledo lived among the Gargantians as slightly eccentric yet likable person.

Locked up in Striker, Kugel never changed from what he was, while Ledo began to value humanity as an individual to some extent, thus that was perhaps why he was so distraught initially by discovering the Hidueaze were humans.

It still does not change the fact that he has been conditioned to follow orders since the day he was born; I do not see him falling so easily in line with Kugel as something weird, it is what he has been doing for a long while, and up until a few months ago, what he believed his life will always be like. We will see whether a few months or so of living as a "individual" can challenge years of military conditioning.

Yeah, I don't think he'll stay under Kugel's command: I agree that he's changed from staying with the Gargaintian fleet, definitely more than he realizes. Makes me wonder: if he defects from Kugel, will Chamber follow suit or defer to the chain of command?

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by LystAP

Perhaps they were people on their way to the incinerator, like what happened to poor Ledo's brother?

You know what never looks good next to guys wrapped in cloth? Levers with big red buttons on them.



On the other hand, they look like they're on a platform with wheels, so maybe that's just a steering controller instead of the thing that flips the chairs over and drops them into the flaming pit of flamingness.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Is it even Kugel? Chamber managed to come its own conclusion severed from the Alliance.

To the point Ledo is bewildered a machine is telling him to get out of his depression.

Who is to say Striker isn't playing a Wizard of Oz on both of them and everybody else?

[Jan-Poo]

Interesting episode. Pinion's reign of terror really was short lived as it was to be expected. At least he is accepting the fact without making a fuss thus recovering a bit from the past episode's descent in total douchebag territory.

Now there's really something wrong. Kugel not showing up in person is extremely suspicious. The endemic disease seemed like a bad conceived lie and Chamber apparently doesn't think of that as something plausible considering he conjectures other more plausible hypothesis for that.
When he asked more info about the endemic disease directly to Striker I thought he was already sniffing something fishy, but since he ran a check up on Ledo I guess it's entirely possible that he was simply concerned about his pilot's health.

Anyway the fact that Striker spoke to Pinion directly was also pretty suspicious (who would have thought that Pinion was actually talented?), and equally suspicious is the whole theory that "now that we have two machine calibers we can conquer the world". Why? Striker should have been more than powerful enough to subdue Gargantia, why does she need to send Ledo?

If we pair that with Striker's desire to get Pinion on her side as quick as possible, I guess it's likely that Striker isn't functioning properly. That might be because she no longer has enough energy or some kind of internal damage.

Anyway it's either Kugel who went full "heart of darkness" or Striker who went rogue and developed a goddess complex.

Originally Posted by Funkatron

Crap: Ledo's commander wants to push the philosophies of the GA on the humans on Earth and apparently

This seems to be even worse than that. The GA just seemed a very militaristic autocratic society, but what we have here is a collectivist theocracy!
Worshiping a machine caliber as a god was definitely not part of the GA's agenda.

Anyway Rackage came back as I suspected, and I really doubt she's fine with the current state of affairs. Besides I've noticed she doesn't have any ritualistic painting on her forehead.
Why are they even trusting her?

Anyway the battle between Striker and Chamber is inevitable at this point, Ledo can't possibly attack the Gargantians after all he's been through. Perhaps he will fire some warning shots, but ultimately he will disobey the order to kill them once they will refuse to "cooperate".

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Is it even Kugel? Chamber managed to come its own conclusion severed from the Alliance.

To the point Ledo is bewildered a machine is telling him to get out of his depression.

Who is to say Striker isn't playing a Wizard of Oz on both of them and everybody else?

Well, logically, the society that developed on the cultist fleet is not that different from what the Galactic Alliance does normally (after all, science and religion aren't as different as you'll think; science uses logic thus people sometimes follow blindly, but occasionally that logic can turn up to be flawed or drawn from incomplete premises). At this point, there is some reason to believe it is Kugel, whom is sticking with the old "traditions", in contrast to Ledo who developed after interactions with the Gargantians.

It is my belief, that had Ledo landed and made contact with Kugel from the beginning, he would not have even doubted the actions Kugel is taking now.

[Funkatron]

I wouldn't be surprised if the "disease" was a fabrication of Striker, not Kugel. He's probably trapped in there by her, thinking he is sick but in actuality he's in okay to perfect health.

I also wonder if the religious aspect is Kugel/Striker's doing or is the society just overreacting to his power?

[Casshern]

I'm not sure what kind of "awareness" they are supposed to bring to Gargantia when Ledo tells Kugel about his experiences there. The fleet already knows that Ledo is just a child-soldier and Chamber is a machine.

[GreyZone]

I also think that Striker has its part in the scheme. Something feels wrong about this "disease". How could he get a virus like that? Only 4 possibilities:

1. He got the virus before the battle in space against the Hideauze
2. He had for some reason during the space battle a PHYSICAL contact with a Hideauze (unlikely)
3. The warmhole somehow caused this
4. The virus just formed in his body.

But all these possiblities... I don't know... they seem strange... also that scene where Chamber asked for "information" regarding the disease screamed "Chekov's gun" to me. I am quite sure that it is NOT a red herring.

[DuelGundam2099]

Well that episode was.... Lackluster compared to last time. I don't know, it just felt like there could have been more to it, but at least Lukkage/Rakkage/what's the official spelling? and the Surfing Lobster are back. Also an odd thing to comment on, but he opening scene probably had the most subtle panty shot in anime history. No idea why that came across my mind.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by LystAP

(after all, science and religion aren't as different as you'll think; science uses logic thus people sometimes follow blindly, but occasionally that logic can turn up to be flawed or drawn from incomplete premises).

I would just like to point out that this is completely and flat out wrong. Science is completely different from religion based on the fact that it tests for repetition and proof, and will change to accommodate new solid information. If the hypothesis does not come to a proper conclusion or turns out to be false, then science will find another explanation till the conclusion matches the observations. Thus for science, 1 + 1 will equal 2 unless proven otherwise by a test that shows 1 + 1 will sometimes equal 3, at which point tests will be conducted until they find the reason why such things occur, and then amend to say "1 + 1 = 2 unless X condition is met, and thus 1 + 1 = 3."

Religion on the other hand is based upon faith, the unshakeable belief in the correctness of something despite lack of tangible proof. Thus, if the religion says that 1 + 1 = 4, then that is what people will believe, even if tangible tests show that 1 + 1 = 2.

Scientists value logic and skepticism because it allows them to not leap to conclusions that may turn out to be false. They only follow what information they have until new developments either amend or disprove their earlier data, at which point changes will be made so that their conclusions match what they see. Religion is immutable, and relies on a constant that cannot be proven or disproven, only believed, no matter if there is no proof for it.

[Haak]

God this is really scary now. The show is really at the cross roads at the moment and unlike other anime where the path is usually obvious, I can really see this going either way. Total despair, or total awesomeness: Which is it going to be?

Chamber and Lukkage vs Striker. Come on, make it happen!

[Jerseykid]

I want the happy ending where Ledo gets with Amy and Stryker gets with Chamber

[Kanon]

I didn't expect Lukkage to come back, and certainly not here. Seems like she's plotting to escape from Kugel's grasp. She's obviously not buying his bullshit.

The heart of darkness development was very predictable and therefore a bit disappointing, but as was already mentioned, it's highly plausible Kugel is already dead and Striker is running the show, which would make the situation a bit more interesting. If that's where the show is going, then I hope Ledo will only learn the truth after making the decision to oppose Kugel. If he learns a faulty A.I is responsible for this turn of event, it will be all too easy for him to make this decision. The main problem remains Chamber: will he remain faithful to Ledo? I like to think he has learned something from the Gargantians as well.

[Bern-san]

I actually think that maybe Lukkage made a deal with Striker, hence why she doesn't a mark.
Wonder how this will end... Happy ending with Ledo and Amy together in Gargantia or will Ledo die or Amy/Gargantia leaving Ledo in despair? I'm expecting some character death since it's weird that aside from the Commander none has been killed or something.
I hope the quality of this episode was to give us a good fight scene next week.

[Enjou]

Originally Posted by andyjay729

And once again, Lukkage proves that in anime, you can't assume someone's dead until you see the body. (When she first crawled out of the lobster, did anyone else at first think that was just her limp body falling out?)

I never thought she was dead in the first place - her defeat didn't seem particularly lethal. She just passed out and got her tin lobster tossed into the distance as if her and her two cronies are Team Rocket.


Anywho, I think she's plotting a rebellion or escape of some sort. She doesn't seem the type to enjoy being under someone else's command.