[Anime-only] Shippuden Episode 179 Discussion

[monster]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

So I don't think Shikaku was his teacher, maybe something like mentor or something else along this lines.

It's still possible. When Asuma is about Naruto's age in part 1, Shikaku is already in his twenties.

[Fran~]

It's possible, just look at the age of Minato and Kakashi in Kakashi Gaiden.

In part I Kakashi has 26-27 years old, when Madara attacks the village 12 years before part I, Kakashi has 14-15 years... 1-2 year after Kakashi Gaiden, when Minato was his sensei and Kakashi has 13 years old.

[DeDe]

It is very possible.

While we have no official age, Minato was thought to be 21-25 when he died. Although he could have been slightly older. He was Kakashi's jounin sensei when he was 13. He became Hokage when Kakashi was 14. So just by that math, Minato was probably 7-12 years older than Kakashi.

At 26, Kakashi himself was 13 years older than Team 7 at the start of Naruto. But they were not his first genin team, so who knows how long he was teaching up to that point. It is very possible for a genius character to be a jounin sensei at an early age. So a ten year gap between teacher and student is very possible. Asuma would have been 13 and Shikaku 23.

[Uchiha Soul]

Sh*t!!!!!! Danzo cant be the next hokage!!! I mean come on, what the hell are they thinking? Where are their minds!! And who the hell is this old lady with her big fan? She talked nothing but 3rd Hokage, I bit she was/is in love with him (one sided love apparently)!
But I don’t blame them nor Danzo .. its all the elders' fault, I hate them, they are the devils in human forms

In general the ep was great .. I really didn’t expect it would be that amazing, the combination of the cannon and filler were done so perfect, the additional details were funny and some of them were emotional and even the flashbacks were good.

And I agree with Fran, I got the same feeling about Shikaku and Asuma when they were talking about the king's riddle .. I think they are sensei/gakuse. And it makes sense now why Asuma was very comfortable dealing with Shiki since day no. 1, it simply bcuz he used to be with Shikaku.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Well in Narupedia it's stated like this....

Shikaku:
part1: 38
part2: 41

Asuma:
part1: 27-28
part2: 31

So I don't think Shikaku was his teacher, maybe something like mentor or something else along this lines.

Shikaku might have been Asuma's sempai. It seemed like they had been friends a long time, even before Shikamaru became Asuma's student.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

And who the hell is this old lady with her big fan? She talked nothing but 3rd Hokage, I bit she was/is in love with him (one sided love apparently)!

She is Koharu Utatane, she was in the same team with the Sandaime and now is one of the Konoha Council.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

Sh*t!!!!!! Danzo cant be the next hokage!!! I mean come on, what the hell are they thinking? Where are their minds!! And who the hell is this old lady with her big fan? She talked nothing but 3rd Hokage, I bit she was/is in love with him (one sided love apparently)!
But I don’t blame them nor Danzo .. its all the elders' fault, I hate them, they are the devils in human forms

The Konoha Elders are fixed and rigid in their ways, uncompromising and uninterested in change. You might call them hard-liners or extreme conservatives. Danzo is even worse... he's a complete isolationist, which, in my opinion, would be the death of Konohagakure as a culture, but that's just my opinion.

Without a Hokage there to countermand their extremely conservative orders, the Elders have de facto control over Konohagakure.

Both they and Danzo believe they know what's best for Konoha, and do their best to protect it. However, they have flawed logic. They don't strive to make friends and alliances (even though Sunagakure did live up to their word and helped them during the Sasuke escape arc), and they are going down a pretty self-destructive path. They have wisdom with their years, but lack the foresight and mental flexibility to use it well.

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Fran~

She is Koharu Utatane, she was in the same team with the Sandaime and now is one of the Konoha Council.

Hm, no. Uchiha Soul is talking about the Fire Lord, who is, in fact, male.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

And I agree with Fran, I got the same feeling about Shikaku and Asuma when they were talking about the king's riddle .. I think they are sensei/gakuse. And it makes sense now why Asuma was very comfortable dealing with Shiki since day no. 1, it simply bcuz he used to be with Shikaku.

All of the jonin sensei were specifically placed in charge of their teams for a reason by the Third Hokage. Obviously Kakashi being in charge of Team 7. We know the reasons. Asuma learning under Shikaku and then teaching Shikamaru makes perfect sense. Being under Shikaku would also expose Asuma to Inoichi and Choza making it easier to teach their children. Kurenai was already in charge of Hinata thanks to Hiashi. So it would sense she would teach her. It doesn't seem she had any connections to Kiba or Shino's clans. But it still works.

Naruto's politics are interesting. The military wing(Konoha) has equal representation with the aristocracy. It's still a monarchy though. All Danzou had to do is convince the stupid Fire Lord. He probably still would have won a vote. Only Shikaku in that room would have voted against him. If I were Shikaku, I'd watch my back.

[Mr.Amazing]

Well the Fire Lord was unimpressive. Shikaku gained even more points in my book by cutting across Danzo and interjecting Kakashi into the mix, but I think Danzo gaining power was inevitable.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Hm, no. Uchiha Soul is talking about the Fire Lord, who is, in fact, male.

But he never spoke with Sandaime at all!!! The Daymo was showed at the brief about Pain's Attack.
OTOH, Kahoru spoke with Sandaime after the election of the sensei's for the genin's teams.

[Uchiha Soul]

Originally Posted by Fran~

She is Koharu Utatane, she was in the same team with the Sandaime and now is one of the Konoha Council.

no, i was talking about the person in charge, the one who assigned Danzo as 6th hokage .. he/she was sitting in the middle.

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

The Konoha Elders are fixed and rigid in their ways, uncompromising and uninterested in change. You might call them hard-liners or extreme conservatives. Danzo is even worse... he's a complete isolationist, which, in my opinion, would be the death of Konohagakure as a culture, but that's just my opinion.

Without a Hokage there to countermand their extremely conservative orders, the Elders have de facto control over Konohagakure.

Both they and Danzo believe they know what's best for Konoha, and do their best to protect it. However, they have flawed logic. They don't strive to make friends and alliances (even though Sunagakure did live up to their word and helped them during the Sasuke escape arc), and they are going down a pretty self-destructive path. They have wisdom with their years, but lack the foresight and mental flexibility to use it well.

I know Danzo is worst but they are not better than him, they took part of each bad decision made by Konoha, Danzo is evil since the beginning, at least he doesn’t pretend to be a good guy like those hypocrite elders.

Wisdom? Do you call this wisdom!!! Wise people must have the ability or the knowledge to make a good decision, they must have fast but best reaction for different circumstances. Lot of experiences, foresight and mental flexibility are the most important characteristics in wisdom and I don’t think we saw any with those elders, and I guess you already said that.

Their job is to support the Hokages not to go against them in every decision they made, we see this with 3rd hokage and now with Tsundae .. we don’t wanna go far, the latest example was in this ep, when the old hag said "Tsunade is responsible for bringing the destruction of the leaf village" I mean what the heck? Tsunade is the one who did that?!!! She sacrificed herself for Konoha sake and what she got? a betrayal from people who supposed to be with her when she made a decision, but where were they? They were hiding like pathetic rats.

Everyone know that Danzo is evil even the children do but it Obvious that they are supporting Danzo and they want him to be a hokage .. but you know what, I really wish he kill them with no mercy.

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Hm, no. Uchiha Soul is talking about the Fire Lord, who is, in fact, male.

A male?!!!!! O_o .. is this person really a man!!! ewwww, I don’t know what to say .. poor konoha, their lord is talking and acting like a woman what a shame! .

Originally Posted by Fran~

But he never spoke with Sandaime at all!!! The Daymo was showed at the brief about Pain's Attack.
OTOH, Kahoru spoke with Sandaime after the election of the sensei's for the genin's teams.

I didn’t say he speak with 3rd, I said he talked about him. he doesn’t know anything and don’t care who will be the next hokage, all was matter to him is someone related to sandaime.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

Their job is to support the Hokages not to go against them in every decision they made, we see this with 3rd hokage and now with Tsundae .. we don’t wanna go far, the latest example was in this ep, when the old hag said "Tsunade is responsible for bringing the destruction of the leaf village" I mean what the heck? Tsunade is the one who did that?!!! She sacrificed herself for Konoha sake and what she got? a betrayal from people who supposed to be with her when she made a decision, but where were they? They were hiding like pathetic rats.

Everyone know that Danzo is evil even the children do but it Obvious that they are supporting Danzo and they want him to be a hokage .. but you know what, I really wish he kill them with no mercy.

Advisers don't necessarily always support the leader's decisions. Their main job is to offer advice and be a soundboard. To even critique the leader.

They weren't saying Tsunade is directly responsible for the destruction of Konoha. They are saying her policies were. I guess they felt Konoha had been weakened under Tsunade. They obviously had problems with how the Third dealt with Naruto. And this carried over to Tsunade. They also think she was weak with Sasuke. They want a hawk running Konoha who will be much more aggression dealing with problems. Think Uchiha massacre.

Clearly the two are Strawmen for the author. We are not suppose to agree with them. Just like Shikaku was speaking for the good guys. They are wrong since Danzou is a fanatic and his policies would turn Konoha, for lack of a better description, into Nazi Germany.

[Uchiha Soul]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Advisers don't necessarily always support the leader's decisions. Their main job is to offer advice and be a soundboard. To even critique the leader.

They weren't saying Tsunade is directly responsible for the destruction of Konoha. They are saying her policies were. I guess they felt Konoha had been weakened under Tsunade. They obviously had problems with how the Third dealt with Naruto. And this carried over to Tsunade. They also think she was weak with Sasuke. They want a hawk running Konoha who will be much more aggression dealing with problems. Think Uchiha massacre.

Clearly the two are Strawmen for the author. We are not suppose to agree with them. Just like Shikaku was speaking for the good guys. They are wrong since Danzou is a fanatic and his policies would turn Konoha, for lack of a better description, into Nazi Germany.

well I didn’t mean to support every decision but their job is to negotiate the ideas, try to understand the hokage's points and give advices not to protest against them before even listening!
Yeah she did say that this is Tsunade's fault! And this was not their first time, they always do that .. everything Tsunade says is wrong, everything 3rd says is wrong but everything Danzo says is right.

[Fran~]

well my bad, my bad...

[Dextro]

Ok I'm wondering: was I the only one who thought that song that played at the end when Kakashi was looking at Naruto and Sakura's backs sounded a lot like one of the songs in the Trigun soundtrack?

[Dist]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

It seems that the anime is going to cover bits of the manga with each filler episode. Well I suppose it's not a bad way of going about it.

Well that just sucks then. I hate fillers, and I thought of skipping through all these fillers... now what am I missing out on since I'm not watching these episodes ?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Dist

now what am I missing out on since I'm not watching these episodes ?

This episode is about ch450

[Dist]

Im not reading manga, that's exactly why I'm asking what important bits I may be missing ... in other words, for what reason should I watch these stupid fillers.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Dist

Im not reading manga, that's exactly why I'm asking what important bits I may be missing ... in other words, for what reason should I watch these stupid fillers.

Because they have MAJOR canon in it. Like the entire Konoha Council meeting. You miss that and you won't know what the hell is going on later on.

So if you want to follow the story, you have to watch the episodes since they have canon and filler in them. And most of the filler easily places within the story. Like the entire second half which was just a replay of canon events but from Kakashi's perspective.

But some are complaining that Naruto shouldn't have shown Sasuke mass kage bunshin since he did it later in canon. I honestly don't even remember or care.