2011-01-23, 01:42 | Link #61 |
Stupidity is Bliss.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In Hancock's Heart
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man, i really like these sensible theories you people are sharing. although it's causing me to ponder hard already despite the ep. still going on its 4th. and LOL,yes,madoka is THE CHOSEN ONE! XD
btw though, if homura's trying to atleast warn or stop madoka from being an MS,why don't she just tell her and not go around with those riddles of hers. tch,now i'm wanting the next ep. asap!! PS: DAMN YOU GEN FOR MAKING ME QUITE ADDICTED TO THIS!! XD |
2011-01-23, 01:59 | Link #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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lol I did say it was a really really crazy theory
Maybe she has to follow some kinda rules. Who knows, we need more clues!!!! And that reminds me, I'm still trying to figure out what's the deal with the black cat in the opening... any ideas??
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2011-01-23, 07:42 | Link #65 |
Grumpy Russian bear
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Just food for thought:
- Gem becomes dim with time/usage? - Grief Seed is needed to clean up gem. - When last witch would be exterminated... yeah, right, no more grief seeds. - Which means gems WILL become dark. And as things go most likely result of gem becoming dark... can this game really end?
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2011-01-23, 08:48 | Link #66 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: greece
Age: 28
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I remembered smth when kyubey is asking madoka if she has thought of a wish at somepoint he/she/it asks if it only power that she wants?
He said that he/she/it can't suggest wishes but he/she/it indirectly does!
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2011-01-23, 09:34 | Link #67 |
Crazy One
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Crimson Demon's Realm
Age: 40
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@aeriolewinters
I hope it's true, since Madoka seems happy with the cat in the opening. I felt surprised and pain at the same time, I thought she gets swallowed as a whole, but after the falling headless body (from the Puella Magi mode into normal mode, then falls) gets chased by the witch and chewed. Later on the chewed headless body falls from the exploded witch, while her cup falls broken with the Grieve Seed. The twist in this story after the episode, Madoka won't turn into a Puella Magi until the final three episodes of this series. Sayaka won't use her wish for Mami and keeps convincing Madoka to use her wish for Mami, but Madoka is too scared of the consequence after she saw Mami gets killed. Madoka is in a pinch and Homura (from the parallel world, pleas don't tell she's acting like Rika, who has the recollection of memories from the previous worlds she failed to stop Madoka from turning into a Puella Magi) is not on time to save Madoka, so Sayaka immediately make a contract with cunning Kyuubei (Kyuubey) as for her wish to heal her friend. Sayaka slaps Madoka and she walks away. Kyuubei (Kyuubey) still insisting/convincing Madoka to become a Puella Magi. Mami won't return no more for this world unless the plot has World Reset (Higurashi), Time Travel (Dragon Ball: Future Trunks), or Parallel World (Asura Cryin') |
2011-01-23, 10:09 | Link #68 | ||
has a custom user title
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In a Mitten
Age: 29
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Speaking of deaths in witch's layers, what ever happened to Mami's body? It didn't appear when the layer collapsed which is what confuses me. Mami isn't part of the witch, she's a human girl now. I just can't help but wonder what happened to it. Quote:
The game can't end because there will always be magical girls created by contractors and witches created from magical girls. I'm just puzzled on what the goal of this game is. My mind won't stretch that far XD
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2011-01-23, 16:15 | Link #72 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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About a possible reason for needing the other MGs... it could be that he needs the game running to have a reason to contract the girl he's really interested in, and so he would need the battle between MGs and witches to be and on-going thing. Of course, more clues will reveal more possibilities and other theories!
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2011-01-23, 20:08 | Link #73 | ||
Banned
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I can't really speculate, because at this point I'd be grasping at straws and coming up with a number of theories. My gut tells me it's a bit more straightforward, though. However, I do want to comment on one thing:
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What people have stated is pretty common fare for the MG genre; this goes for Madoka having a nice family, to Homura ultimately being a friend to Madoka. And let's be straight here, that Madoka's family isn't 100% sugar sweet; the mother did get drunk, after all, and has some apparent issues with work. If it were a true perfect family from a wish, her mom would be happy with her job and probably wouldn't be drunk. But yes, I bet we can expect a few more twists, as this show will twist the MG genre; Mami's death, and indeed the way she died, showcase that. Whether a wish can bring someone back to life or not, we should find out next ep. Lastly, I'll state that the wish system was explained as an equivalent exchange type thing. How else to get young girls with magic power to risk their lives? Not all will be like Madoka. It feels like there's more going on here, but time will tell. |
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2011-01-23, 20:54 | Link #74 |
Senior Member
Author
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To be fair, this anime may be the darkest magical girl anime I've seen (closest competitor would be final season of Sailor Moon).
Madoka has put its distinctive mark on the magical girl genre, to its great credit. However, I just don't like the implication (intentional or otherwise) that magical girl anime is all sugar and spice and everything nice, and Madoka is totally 100% different from that. It might be 100% different from that caricature of magical girl anime, but it's not 100% different from something like Nanoha. In fact, if Homura ends up (i.e. is confirmed as) being a socially awkward protagonist that cares deeply for Madoka, then that makes her an awful lot like Fate Testarossa (and Homura/Madoka would become a relationship very similar to Fate/Nanoha). It's for this reason that I find Himeji's speculations here intriguing, even if I don't fully agree with them. If Madoka's creators really want to deconstruct the magical girl anime genre piece by piece, making Homura an arrogant antagonistic figure would help a lot there (it would be quite a twist for people expecting her to be Fate crossed with Hitagi from Bakemonogatari). Not that I expect that, mind you, but it would be interesting if it did happen.
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2011-01-23, 21:03 | Link #75 | |
Grumpy Russian bear
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2011-01-24, 02:48 | Link #77 |
This was meaningless
Scanlator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Not on this site no more.
Age: 36
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I find it hard to trust or condemn a character who has not demonstrated proper motive. Maybe displaying motive in an obvious manner is going to be the death flag for characters, as we saw in Mami's case. In trying to figure out Homura and Kyubey's alignment, I thought I'd start with some observations and go from there. Hopefully they sound neutral to y'all. I'll follow this up with my interpretation.
In Homura's case: She wanted to prevent contact between Madoka and Kyubey, but stopped pressing the matter after they met. She wanted to make sure Madoka remembered her message about whether or not she treasured the life she was living. She intervened after Mami's death before Kyubey contracted with either girl. In Kyubey's case: He tries to explain MG'ing to Madoka and Sayaka. He tries to encourage Madoka to form a contract despite saying he isn't allowed to (see the dream from ep 1 and the sweet talking in ep 3). Supplemental to Kyubey, Kyubey's first line about making a MG contract is that he will fulfill "any one of [their] wishes", and he repeats this adding that he can "make miracles happen." He follows this up with the price which is the duty to fight witches. Mami is the one to caution Madoka and Sayaka against a hasty decision to enter a contract. Mami and Homura's chat in ep 3 reinforces Mami's line from ep 2 about being irrevocably involved in this magical world when Kyubey has chosen them. When you look at how Kyubey introduces being a MG to Madoka and Sayaka, he explains the good stuff first and appends it with a short line about fighting witches. It's up to Mami to temper Madoka and Sayaka's excitement despite Mami's own desire to have MGs to partner with. Reading into Kyubey's explanation of where witches and MGs come from (MGs born from wishes, witches born from curses), I think he has the ability to make witches--no middle step--by granting a curse. Since it is explicitly stated how witches are born and since he says this in the same breath as how magical girls are born, this raises a red flag. We have no guarantee that Kyubey or one of his cohorts (if any exist, or a rival even) isn't going around granting curses for people who want naughty things done to other people. If there is a system in place, perhaps he makes MGs until there aren't enough witches, then goes and makes witches until there aren't enough MGs. Considering that MGs seem to be unable to "help people" in the same way that witches can harm them (ie, death), any such system that intentionally generates witches would suggest Kyubey is an immoral existence. Also, becoming irreversibly involved in the magical world after meeting Kyubey seems to be a rather insufferable fate does it not? Either way, knowing what happens after a Grief Seed is "used up" or what happened to Mami's Soul Gem will probably be a juicy hint. Maybe he just eats those. Little critter looks like a malformed mongoose to me. As a MG, Homura is already tied into hunting witches regardless of other motivations. If there were no MGs, there would be no force to counter witches who kill/eat people or compel them to suicide or crime. By wanting to prevent new MGs from being born (or maybe only keeping Madoka from becoming a MG), you can derive that Homura either wants to have "less competition" as Mami had suggested or she wants to prevent a wish from being made. Since Homura has shown no issues with killing witches by her own power, I find it hard to argue that she is evil on either point--less competition or preventing a wish with unintended consequences. To reiterate the good point--Homura does not hurt anyone by not allowing new MGs to be born so long as she is strong enough to kill the witches that appear before her, therefore there is no inherent evil in her actions. Short version for the dyslexic: Kyubey=shady. Homura=nice. I don't want to go into pasts or futures (or futures that loop to pasts) too much--that's a few too many steps on the game board for me--but those are my thoughts. |
2011-01-24, 03:52 | Link #78 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Age: 31
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Quote:
Come one, who else wants it! One a more serious note, didn't Kyubey say that if MG's are born from wishes, that Witches are born from curses? Can we take this to mean that the process for creating them is exactly parallel aside from the intent of the wish? If so, the question I pose is: who contracts witches? Is it some rival of Kyubey's or is it Kyubey himself? I think it'd be a pretty interesting turn of events if it turned out he was selling arms to both sides. |
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2011-01-24, 05:59 | Link #80 | ||
Name means little...
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2004
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The crucial problem that I see here would be that in the various renditions of Faust, it is either that Faust is damned or that Faust is saved at the last moment, without any indication of future development. If we assume that Faust in effect becomes yet another Mephistopheles in order to achieve his own redemption, then under your assumption, Kyubey would only be a servitor to, well, Faust/Mephistopheles. On that Kyubey may very well have been harvesting "as the crop is ripe for the taking", we must wonder then why is it that Kyubey has not Mami's soul gem with him after this episode. Quote:
In response, I will post out what I have organized in all as the questions that plague me regarding Kyubey. I did not assume the possibility of Faust having such power. On Kyubey and what he might have wagered with 'GOD' which kickstarted this whole mess... and also on this Madoka show here be Faust: A. This system has been on-going for some time: 1. Kyubey has been a part since time immaterial. 2. Kyubey only began his involvements at a later stage of this 'game'. 3. The system has already racked up a heap of dead magical girls and witches, with no end to this meat grinder in sight. B. Assuming that there is a 'GOD' that Kyubey would bet against. 1. Kyubey is subject to the Serpent a. Does he have the power of attorney to act on behalf of the Serpent? b. Does he align ambition wise to the interests of the Serpent? I. If Kyubey's interests ever leave its alignment to that of the Serpent, will he be struck down mercilessly? c. Is Kyubey in competition with other servitors of the Serpent? I. If so, what are the other servitors like? II. What are the acts of Kyubey's competitor(s)? 2. Kyubey is subject to none. a. Any competitor(s)? C. Assuming that Kyubey does not really have such an arrangement at all. 1. Kyubey is the creator of this system of equilibrium between witches and magical girls. a. (See: A) 2. Kyubey is merely an enforcer of a pre-existing system of equilibrium. a. Kyubey is an arbitor of Ex factis jus oritur. 3. Kyubey is thrusted into this contingency of sorts. a. The work of unknown perpetrator(s) is the casus belli for this conflict between magical girls and witches. b. Kyubey is simply responding to events beyond that of his control. D. What compensation does Kyubey receive for partaking such an enterprise? 1. Proving an ideological argument in his favor regarding humanity. a. That humanity will succumb to its vices. b. That humanity is of worth and can see salvation, at a price. c. Since everything created, In turn deserves to be annihilated (Mephistopheles, Faust, Part I, Scene III) 2. Tangible benefits, be they materialistic or in competitiveness. E. On the criteria of being able to enter such a bargaining table with 'GOD' 1. Does the consignees of the magical girl contract have any ability to elevate themselves to that of an active stakeholder? a. Slaying sufficient number of witches would eventually yield such an outcome. b. Some other means are at work for one to become as Kyubey is. 2. What would be put forth as the betting chips by those that can enter this bargaining table? 3. Can the parties devise a game of their choosing, and not merely that of magical girls vs. witches? a. Will there be change of scenes, mirroring Goethe's Faust, Part II (Tragedy of Faust), where the participants would travel about before coming full circle? F. Potential outcomes. 1. Mirroring the various renditions of Faust. a. The damnation of all magical girls, with Mephistopheles claiming victory? b. That it ends in an inconclusive fashion, with 'Gretchen' declare saved? c. 'Faust' finding salvation with a last-minute intervention by the Heavens. d. Mephistopheles Kyubey is doomed to act as the servant or assistant of the magical girls, bounded by his contracts with them. e. Status quo antebellum. 2. Gen Urobochi decides to make Faust 2011 'unique'. a. All must die. Apocalyptic conclusion.
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2011-01-24 at 06:23. |
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