Character Discussion - Kallen

[brandon279]

if we are asking "who is the best pilot?"

the answer is: Kallen

she won over suzaku many times when they had the same level of KM, while he was able to win when he had one step technology over her.

just see R1, see their battles together, and it is very obvious in the beginning of R2 (when lelouch was going to abduct the governor Nunnely), when kallen has a tech which on the same bar as suzaku: she wins.

but now suzaku is abusing his live geass at will, so he wont be easy to defeat(he puts his life on the stake in every battle, putting of all his abilities in a maximum use).


anther way to know the vector: is to look to the plot itself.

if Kallen confronts lelouch to say her gum line to him, she must pass suzaku, suzaku wont let her pass unless he is defeated OR he convinces her to join the ZR during the fight (which is very unlikely)

[Baixinho]

Originally Posted by tsukishima

Kallen's one intentionally omits the subject. Leaving the possibility that it might be used on a non character context.

I would translate it as:

"If you use the word love, or something to that extent, for this (context), I won't forgive you."

The forgive you aspect sounds unnecessarily harsh and doesn't need to be. It has become a word that can be used in a non serious setting in response to a prank or someone nicking the food off your plate.

The bracketed (context) was added because the subject is intentionally left out. Thus the context is unknown.

I added "or something to that extent" because it isn't always part of the sentence pattern. The extra words after 'aishiteru' do give that meaning. Increasing the potential context it can be used in.

Tsukishima

It is not "if you use" but "if you say" : the word used is ittara which is a conditional form of the verb "to say".

Also to me, the kara means that the if the aishiteru nante is said, this is what will cause the yurusenai. This is how I understand the line in a very literal way :
"if it is about to be said, the fact that (someone) saying something like I love (someone) is something that will make me not forgive (someone)"

Originally Posted by tsukishima

While it may not be a common word, you unnecessarily ignore all possibility that it can legitimately be used for non romantic situtations. The gumline seems intended to provoke discussion by having its context and subject left unknown.

I do not disagree that it is primarily used romantically but shutting out all other possibilities is unproductive.

For example it can be used to describe a sense of patriorism

国を愛しているから - Is one example

Tsukishima

The gumlines were not given for people to speculate, they should NEVER have been out before the end of the show. The context is supposed to be known of all by the time they are released. So no, Kallen's line was not meant to provoke discussion.


I won't elaborate on the uses of aishiteru as you guys seem to know a lot more than me about that word

[Vito]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I don't subscribe to any sort of "pairing" as this is not a romance anime, and I dislike Kallen's character yet at the sime time I hope she gets a resolution that is fair to her character. Anyways, I still think she has to atone for her sins in some form. Lelouch and Suzaku have both embraced the fact that they're monsters, so Kallen needs to do the same in order to be truly redeemed.

What horrible sins has she committed? Seriously most characters in this show have killed, you want to kill off/imprison most of the cast? She fought in a war, she killed enemy soldiers... despite sometimes being overeager in battle she showed regret.
And correct me if I'm wrong, has there been any information from her terrorist days? When the truck driver suggested using the poison gas, she was against it because it'd be a massacre. So I think it's safe to assume she didn't just bomb random civilian locations.

[bran]

kallen has only killed on the battlefield
she's a soldier doing what a soldier is supposed to do
it's the leader who's responsible

[Anh_Minh]

She tried to do it at school, too, without orders, before Lelouch stopped her.

Note, I don't particularly care about her "sins", except maybe supporting Schneizel, but whatever.

Her self-righteousness, however, does get to me.

[Baixinho]

Originally Posted by bran

kallen has only killed on the battlefield
she's a soldier doing what a soldier is supposed to do
it's the leader who's responsible

This exactly.

People have yet to show me precisely what are her supposed sins. All we saw her doing was killing off soldiers on a battlefield. She was also labeled a terrorist at the beginning of the show, but it was a freaking fascit empire that did label her that. By all means, I would not really trust the objectivity of the britanian government propaganda on this, especially when you see what kind of propaganda they use in the first episode of R2 (elevens are weak and deserve to be taught of one should live....).

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by bran

kallen has only killed on the battlefield
she's a soldier doing what a soldier is supposed to do
it's the leader who's responsible

But Kallen is too

-Suzaku's worst rival; She win against him during all this season, she used him as a punching ball, and she is now going to face him.
-CC's worst rival : Ah...it's all a love matter...
-Lelouch's enemy : It's never a good thing to be enemy with the main protagonist, just look how Suzaku was hated before to join Suzaku, so forcefully, people are giving her some sins she didn't commited.

So add this to the fact that she is a soldier and, well...to some people it's unforgivable, she needs to pay for her sins.

But seriously, those point about "her sins" are totally crazy; If being a soldier is a sin, I don't know who deserves to stay alive at the end.

Her sin could have been to join Lelouch because of her feelings and to fight against her ideals, and her comrades, just because of her love for him; She didn't do this, so, she is clean at this point of the anime.

Terrorist ? It was the resistance, not a bunch of terrorist, and it was against Britannia. And it's not as if we have seen her kill of cold blood some civilians.

[dec4rhapsody]

Self-righteousness?Only Kallen?

*cough*I'm not the one to blame. The world is.*cough*

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Self-righteousness?Only Kallen?

*cough*I'm not the one to blame. The world is.*cough*

Perfect couple, ne ?
But sure, it's too easy to forget about some main protagonists...

[bran]

terrorist or not
kallen was always considerate to not harm civilians
in suzaku's case she has a personal hatred
she sees him as traitor of japan and her only big obstacle (soldier) on the battlefield
so i don't blame her for trying to kill him but trying to kill him in public is too much xD
actually i remember when she first saw Suzaku is piloting the lancelot she was shocked and confused should she fight him or not

[Eliarine]

Quoting from a few pages back, but I'd like to adress this as it's been kinda bothering me too :

Originally Posted by youngde

Why is her getting past Suzaku so hard for people to believe? She a girl with the power of an extremely powerful love/hate (Love for the Lelouch she thought she knew/Hate for the Lelouch that apparently is real). I wouldn't get in the way of that.

Because while Kallen might need a resolution to her relationship with Lelouch, some of us just don't see Suzaku not being part of the finale while she would be - which would probably happen if she does get past him.

Don't get me wrong, Kallen is an important character all right. But...so is Suzaku. :/

[Anh_Minh]

dec4rhapsody:
- He keeps it to himself, rather than say "I'm killing you because of the world!".
- He never purposely nuked a city, unlike the guy she's supporting now.
- It just amuses me that when he was Zero, taking people hostages was cool, attacking countries was cool, but all of a sudden, now that he's Emperor Lelouch, he's a monster that must be stopped at all costs.

[D a m i e n]

Schneizel just happens to go (was going) against the same guy she is going against but for different reason, i dont think she really supports him. It looks more like there is a truce to deal with a great foe.

[Baixinho]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

dec4rhapsody:
- He keeps it to himself, rather than say "I'm killing you because of the world!".
- He never purposely nuked a city, unlike the guy she's supporting now.
- It just amuses me that when he was Zero, taking people hostages was cool, attacking countries was cool, but all of a sudden, now that he's Emperor Lelouch, he's a monster that must be stopped at all costs.

That part was never cool to me, but it was necessary for his ojectives. I never liked when he kidnapped TianZi, when he blew up the FLJ, when he blew up a mountain (causing a lot of civilian death) or when he massacred the Cult. But as the outcome was good it was quite ok for me.

But if you ask me, these methods of Lelouch are exactly why I wanted Suzaku or Kallen to slap some sense into him. I wanted him to take another path in the end (like telling the truth and uniting the world against say.... Schneizel? ) but actually Zero's Requiem is just Lelouch's logic pushed to its extreme, and that's what I don't like about this plan.

Also, he must be stopped from Kallen's POV because he is actually acting like a monster. She doesn't know he has a hidden agenda.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by D a m i e n

Schneizel just happens to go (was going) against the same guy she is going against but for different reason, i dont think she really supports him. It looks more like there is a truce to deal with a great foe.

Why can't she make a truce with Lelouch to stop the guy who blows up cities like it's nothing?

Originally Posted by Baixinho

That part was never cool to me, but it was necessary for his ojectives. I never liked when he kidnapped TianZi, when he blew up the FLJ, when he blew up a mountain (causing a lot of civilian death) or when he massacred the Cult. But as the outcome was good it was quite ok for me.

But if you ask me, these methods of Lelouch are exactly why I wanted Suzaku or Kallen to slap some sense into him. I wanted him to take another path in the end (like telling the truth and uniting the world against say.... Schneizel? ) but actually Zero's Requiem is just Lelouch's logic pushed to its extreme, and that's what I don't like about this plan.

Also, he must be stopped from Kallen's POV because he is actually acting like a monster. She doesn't know he has a hidden agenda.

He always has a hidden agenda. You're only allowed to get blindsided when he's completely open and forthright about what he's doing.

[bran]

zero was an ally of justice
despite the fact he was actually fighting for nunally he was the hope of liberation
his wish for a better world for nunally gave hope for a better world to everyone else and worked towards that idea
who is lelouch after zero's mask fell - noone
noone knows him and the royal family though he's dead
he comes and takes the throne and makes himself the tyrant who wants to manipulate the whole world
BK could only assume he was actually not fighting for freedom but using them to get to the throne
that's why kallen questioned him is power the only thing he wants and he never answered
but his actions made them beleive so
he could have won UN's trust to dominate in time but instead he chose the forceful way

[Baixinho]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

He always has a hidden agenda. You're only allowed to get blindsided when he's completely open and forthright about what he's doing.

We know that he has a hidden agenda, but Kallen does NOT know that. And for all she knows, his hidden agenda could have been to take over the world since the beginning, as he never explicitly tells her why he is fighting.
For my part, as a viewer, even if I know he has a hidden agenda, I don't approve of his way of getting things done even if I recon that they were most of the time necessary. Concerning ZR, we don't know enough yet, but the fact for example that he abused Geass to create slaves, is something I can't agree with.

Anyway, we should stop this off topic discussion.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She tried to do it at school, too, without orders, before Lelouch stopped her.

Note, I don't particularly care about her "sins", except maybe supporting Schneizel, but whatever.

Her self-righteousness, however, does get to me.

She didn't really follow Schenziels orders though. The OotBK were under Xinge Ke's command until the start of the battle at Fuji at which point he transfered command to Schenziel but she just charged ahead and did her own thing ignoring any orders she was given.

She might as well have been part of her own faction.

[Anh_Minh]

While you're at it, why not claim she was just a random passer-by who happened to be there at the time?

She continued to follow the Black Knight, who've been allied with Schneizel pretty much since they sold Lelouch to him, and never once had a qualm that was related to what Schneizel did. Doubts about whether Lelouch was a bad guy or not, yes. Doubts about the morality of helping a city-killer like Schneizel? None.

Her own faction? Who did she attack, except Lelouch's army? She may be undisciplined and overeager... but that doesn't make her "her own faction".

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Her own faction? Who did she attack, except Lelouch's army? She may be undisciplined and overeager... but that doesn't make her "her own faction".

Okay poor choice of words. How about acting independently then since she obviously didn't seem to give a toss about any of the orders she was being given.

She attacked Lelouchs army because she wanted to stop him. It hand nothing to do with any orders. Probably as far as she cared the OotBK could've sat it out at Pengali Island and she still would've tried to stop him. By herself if necessary.