Angel Beats! - Episode 13 (END) Discussion / Poll

[dark998]

Graduation scene was a bit weird in the beginning (cultural issue?) but it picked up strength when everyone started to disappear.

Then, the final plot twist that connected Otonashi and Kanade, didn't see it coming at all, plus gives meaning to the OP song and the name of the series. Confession scene was very well done too.

And of course, THAT scene after the credits, which is the open/good ending I was expecting. No complains there. Hopefully the OVA will show what happens after.



All in all, very good series. Top-notch art, music, vocal songs and CVs. Interesting story and themes. It had some rough edges in terms of pacing, the equivalent of adaptation decay but not as severe.

Really glad this experiment worked as planned. Another success for Maeda Jun, first real success for P.A. Works. Definitely looking forward to all the future media related to it.


PS. And looking forward to Little Busters anime by P.A.

[aeriolewinters]

Here's an interesting suggestion:

Spoiler for Star Trek Generations:

When they pass on, they get to the specific time they wanted to change.

[Isekaijin]

Falls short of other Key titles like Air or Clannad, but hell it was enjoyable.

Personally I liked it. A lot. This anime and Arakawa under the bridge were my only oasis in this season ruled by K-on.

For my impressions.

Funny... I was the only one who didn't cry in my own graduation ceremony... and now...

As a OtonashixTenshi fan I'll say: YAAY I KNEW IT! I ALWAYS KNEW IT!!

Certainly the ending could have been better. The only problem here was the lack of episodes. A developement way too sudden. And it was hard to get used to the non leader Yurippe. But even still... This was a Key anime, and as such...Damn you Maeda.

Guys, the only problem here is that this anime was short of your humongous expectations. Review it calmly and you'll realize.

However this really has the potential to become a VN. I hope it will... be so in the future. Or a bigger anime. 26... episodes would... be fine.

Now... if you'll excuse me I have to shed manly tears.

[Eater of All]

Regarding the hype thing, it's definitely there and probably contributed its own fair share in the negative reactions to this series (Maeda-bashing being the most prominent). But yeah, Angel Beats probably brought it onto itself with all its advertising; I've been fearing since the beginning that it won't be able to live up to the expectations that it set up for itself....

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

This is a terrible justification that I see far, far too often.

Just because it isn't "realistic" does not mean that everything has to be left up for the viewer to interpret.

Refusing to explain anything, especially when the work in question thrives on maintaining a sense of mystery, is bad writing.

Oh no, you misunderstood me (I guess I wasn't clear on it). I'm not saying just because it's fiction it is allowed to pull a deus ex machina out of its arse; what I mean is that all series (fiction or non-fiction) follow its own in-universe rules/tone and is only obligated to be consistent insofar as its established rules/tone requires it to be. Angel Beats never bothered to explain why the afterlife is constructed from binary, why weapons can be raised from dirt, nor why some random Joe can alter the very physics of its world. There is no reason, then, to expect that it'll suddenly expound on a particular mystery when it has been deliberately keeping other mysteries, well, mysteries.

I know what you're thinking though, because I personally hate the "it's fiction so all hell can break loose" argument too.

[xBTAx]

I enjoyed the ending a lot, but I thought that way too much time was spent on the "graduation". I really wish that they had dedicated more time to the last scene, or at least given some time to wrapping up the explanation of the world...

Well, there's always that "special" on the last DVD to look forward to. Hopefully it'll expand on that last scene, since it's on the last DVD...

[Matt122005]

Originally Posted by Casshern

No need to get caught up in details that don't matter.

>___> Did you seriously just try and to explain bad writing away by saying "It's fiction, it's magic, so it doesn't matter"? I mean...seriously?

Sorry to break it to ya, but even Magic has to make sense to a degree.

Just because I can write a novel about some guy named Joe who suddenly loses an arm and yet can still for no given reason pick up stuff with that missing invisible arm, does not mean I should. Or that a reader should excuse it away by saying "It's alright that it makes no sense, it's magic, its fiction. It's a minor detail."

The difference between good writing and bad writing is all about details. It's about how much effort the author put into the material. When you get plots or events that don't make a lot of sense, it reflects poorly on the creator.

You say that the God plot doesn't matter anymore.... but see, then why did they have it in the story at all? If you introduce a sub-plot and never lead it anywhere, do you know what we call that? A rough draft if were being kind. A poorly executed piece of amateur work if were being more critical.

And another reason the dead plot doesn't work well. Is if all it is is reincarnation, then that means that they lose all the memories. So who cares? It's basically the proverbial "Dream" story.

Do you really care about a story that basically never happened? In truth, the last few seconds are the actual real story since that's what the characters can remember. Why even have a graduation ceremony if your not going to remember it at all? Why do you care about overcoming your issues if your just going to be reborn without them anyway?

It's not compelling fiction and it falls short because of it.

As for the Matrix overseer. What you fail to realize, is that if they aren't going to explain more about it....why should they have even had it in the plot? If it's just some random guy, why even give him that much room in the plot?

What it shows is that the writers of this show did not properly plan or use their alloted time as wisely as they should have. A lot of scenes were wasted in this show that could have been replaced with more plot heavy material.

They were reborn huh? Wow...isn't that convenient. What's more... they even look the exact same! Wow... That's pretty convenient too. And whoa...judging by the headphones...they got reborn almost immediately after their deaths. Oh my... I hope their friends and family aren't freaked out by possibly seeing a clone of their dead loved one walking around.

Sigh.

[Kotohono]

I think it was a fitting ending to to the series, I enjoyed, and I think Kanade must have died young despite the transplant for some reason since she said she never graduated in her life, though alternative she could have missed the one of her High School due to being hospitalized similar to Otonashi's sister.

Originally Posted by Francismeunier

In other remarks Yuri was cute here=>

Spoiler:

Yea, Yuri was really cute this final episode .

Originally Posted by Texas84

I'm guessing no chance for a season 2. Wouldn't make much sense. But where did they go? Another life such as in Kannazuki no Miko?

Guess I wasn't the only one reminded of it's ending here.

Originally Posted by Fandal

They should have done the evil ending that I thought of when Kanade disappeared! The ending where Otonashi basically recreates the Angel Player game again and we found out he was the original villain.

Now that would have been a paradox/deus ex machina ending, that would have caused people to rage .

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

lol I like my twist ending better and I'm sure many other people already thought about his end. Otanashi was the original creator of Angel Player waiting for his loved one. He recently got of of being an NPC, but as a result got amnesia. Otanashi was the only exception that mistakenly was in this world and that fits the decscription the advance NPC that got killed by Yurippe in episode 12.

Hmm, that makes a good bit of sense, it could be true I suppose.

Also I'll hold my final judgment on the series as whole until I've read the light novel to know what happened before it better I suppose, though I enjoyed this episode as much as any other in the series which a 10 for the episode.

[Sovran]

The ending is clearly showing the concept of life after death. Some of us think that after death you don't go to Heaven but instead you are "reborn" as a new person or animal, any other living thing. Fulfilling their regrets in the "Purgatory" members of the SSS got "second chance" in living world.
Blablabla, never mind. The ending made me cry T_T. From the opening - "Yokatta ne to." ~ "Saying, I'm so happy for them."

[Triple_R]

My one fear for this ending episode was that Maeda would pull yet another major plot twist that would undermine what I feel was the actual core story of this anime (i.e. the story of Otonashi, the spiritual healer). He avoided that, thankfully.

That being said, a great deal is left to interpretation and/or fan speculation.

Maeda kind of played it safe with this last episode, aside from his decisions on the romance front. That's preferable to a huge twist that could have ruined the entire narrative, but it nonetheless leaves you wondering what could have been.


Still, Angel Beats! was an interesting and somewhat ambitious anime. Just one that you have to look beyond the stated premise and physical conflicts of the anime in order to arrive at its true story, imo.

I am glad that Maeda openly played with the idea of Otonashi and Kanade continuing on as spiritual healers for this Purgatory of sorts, as I myself had thought he might go in that direction.


As for the romance front, I had no strong shipping preferences in this anime, so I'm as happy with Otonashi/Kanade as any other potential Otonashi or Kanade pairing. I guess when all is said and done they were the true protagonists of this story.

I don't want to take too much from Yurippe, but I think she was mainly there to bring in Haruhi fans, and also to be an action hero star of sorts to draw in shounen fans as well. Basically, she was the "bait", and Otonashi was the "switch".


And hey, at least for me, it worked. As a big Haruhi fan, Yurippe was the main reason for my interest in this anime... but it was ultimately Otonashi that made the story memorable for me, much like Tomoya in Clannad.

[animAe]

Personally, I enjoyed the ending a lot, but I think it could have been better. I mean, the whole Otonashi and Kanade meet at the end was a little cliche. I was sort of expecting that turn of events of Kanade having Otonashi's heart but that might just be because of past anime experiences (or kingdom hearts xD)

I think the series should have probably ended right after the credits though and taken the extra 'they meet again' part out. It would have made the ending more dramatic in a way.

I hope they will make another season or atleast make some OVA's to expand on how the other SSS members died because it seemed like a waste that they didn't show how all of the members died (I wanted to find out how TK died D: )

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That being said, a great deal is left to interpretation and/or fan speculation.

Doing this is rather a lot like cutting out the chapter of a mystery novel where the detective reveals who the culprit is and telling you to "figure it out for yourself". Except that all the clues that could point you in the right direction are covered in white-out.

What a brilliant anime. I hope there's many more like it.

[The Eternal Hijacker]

This episode, as well as the entire series, is really a mixed bag for me (and that is not necessarily a good thing in its entirety).

Does that mean I did not enjoy the episode as well as the series? Not necessarily so. I simply avoided over-analyzing the series and its details too much. I also avoided expecting too much.

[blewin]

This is so rushed! I didn't see the Otonashi-suddenly-confessing-love coming at all! There's so little build up about his budding love for Kanade.

There's one thing I'm confused though. Kanade has Otonashi's heart. Does that mean his heart was transplanted into Kanade after he died? If so, then how come Kanade got to the afterlife world BEFORE Otonashi??

Love the ending though. It's really emotional. I cried watching it.

[germanturkey]

the first 3/4 of it was pretty average or bad at best, but the ending was fairly solid. for me, the series peaked at 10 with Yui. The ED was pretty funny because someone had made a AMV of the ending in reverse, and that's exactly what we got. i'm hoping for an OVA or something to fill in the gaps.

[Marcus H.]

Well, it would be a headache to think about the Chronological Dissonance in Kanade's acquisition of her new heart and Otonashi's apparent death, but one thing is for sure: for that entire time that I was watching (and typing a synopsis for Angel Beats! Wiki), I was trying to hold back by tears.

I can't.

Honestly, I'm a newbie to Maeda Jun's style of writing, and after this, I'm now a believer of how great his works can be, even this experimental series.

Kudos to the staff who have toiiled for this masterpiece.

PS. To those who are confused as to why Yuri is acting tsundere is because she is. She's more like this in Track Zero.

[Thoguht]

Originally Posted by blewin

This is so rushed! I didn't see the Otonashi-suddenly-confessing-love coming at all! There's so little build up about his budding love for Kanade.

Are you blind???? As other people have pointed out, it started with the map tofu incident and built from there. By the time Kanade woke up after the Harmonics incident, Otonashi had fallen badly. BUT... he still thought she was an angel, not human, which is why he doesn't know how to react when Kanade puts her hand to his cheek. Later, when he finally comes to realise she is human, he has to re-assess his feelings, and his first reaction is to pet her. Once he gets over the confusion, things move rapidly. Look at the way Kanade pops out from behind him when Yuri wakes up at the end of the previous episode, for instance. Still, don't take any notice of me, I'm just an inveterate shipper.

Originally Posted by blewin

There's one thing I'm confused though. Kanade has Otonashi's heart. Does that mean his heart was transplanted into Kanade after he died? If so, then how come Kanade got to the afterlife world BEFORE Otonashi??

Never read C.S.Lewis' Narnia books? Same deal there, the timelines of the two worlds simply don't mesh.

Originally Posted by blewin

Love the ending though. It's really emotional. I cried watching it.

Finally, something I can agree 100% on with you

[firehawk12]

Yeah, I've been discussing this with someone else on another board.

The ending was pure manipulation - the Otanashi confession/Kanade heart thing was just too much, especially since that relationship pretty much just came out of nowhere. I guess I don't mind the happy ending, but yeesh... they might as well have ended with a wedding if they wanted to go all the way.

Also, if you start to look at the actual rules of Limbo, it either makes no sense or as Yuri first hypothesized, God is a cruel bastard. I'm going to have to go with the former because I don't think the producers knew what they were getting into themselves.

From what I can piece together, Kanade entered Limbo long before any of the other characters because time in Limbo is non-linear. She figured out how to move on but couldn't because she had to wait for Otanashi in order to thank him.

Instead of just telling people how to move on like Otanashi did back in episode 11, Kanade opts to become "Angel" and start killing everyone instead. She knows that they're not supposed to fight their way out of Limbo, but she never actually tells them what they have to do or why they should do it.

At some point, Yuri's affections for her friends manifest into "Love" and God suddenly gets worried and sends a minion to purge Limbo entirely. Again, rather than just send someone to tell them how to move on, he sends someone to destroy and pacify them.

One might argue that Otanashi is another piece of the puzzle introduced by God (or some other God) to help break the cycle - especially if you buy that explanation that he only regained his memories after being reunited with his heart - but I wonder if that isn't giving them too much credit.

Either way, it's all just a bunch of wackiness that I'm not quite sure builds up to anything bigger than the sum of its parts.


I don't regret watching the show since it's my first introduction to Key and I'm happy I only had to invest 13 half hours to the show instead of the 6 years that Lost took from me, but jeez... they should have just made an anime adaptation of Ghost Whisperer if they wanted to create an anthology series about people dying tragically and having to move on.

[Marcus H.]

Kanade never killed someone on a whim or with killing intent.
Also, she admits her Guard Skills are never made for offense, just like what the name suggests.

I think Kanade thought that she can find the person who has given her heart is by stabbing them straight into the chest. (There are no proofs for this, but this might be the reason why she ends up being an enemy.) That thought caused a misunderstanding which lasted for a long time.

Also, there is no god.
Otonashi believes the same thing, and Yuri has been proven wrong after seeing many proofs debunking her ideology within the series.

And I thought Otonashi himself is the bug, since he is not supposed to come here since he's pretty much fulfilled the regrets of his life.

[Mirrinus]

Originally Posted by Thoguht

Never read C.S.Lewis' Narnia books? Same deal there, the timelines of the two worlds simply don't mesh.

Not quite the same, if I do recall correctly.

My normal assumption for any story involving different worlds is that the same amount of time passes at the same rate in both. If this is shown to be false, my next assumption should be that time flows at a different pace between these two worlds. This is what Narnia does, as a year in the real world could mean decades or centuries in Narnia.

But Angel Beats! doesn't do either of these things. In their world, time doesn't just flow at a different pace, it apparently can flow backwords as well. Either that, or it flows differently for different people even if they're in the same world. Which opens up all new questions regarding consistancy. For example, how would Kanade know for sure that her heart's donor would even show up in the afterlife? For all she knew, he may have arrived before her and already passed on, especially with time as convoluted and non-linear as it is. Taking the easy way out on this plot point just opens up more questions to resolve one answer.

As cute and touching as it was that Kanade received Otonashi's heart (and I'll admit, I liked that particular plot point), the execution of it by revealing that time flows however the author wants it to flow just sort of messes around with the otherwise decent conclusions I can end with. For example, if time flows all weird like that, how do we know that everyone reincarnates at the same time now? What if Hinata and Yui were in different times, so they won't even have a chance to meet and hook up? What if...okay, I'll stop there, because most of the other characters didn't even get as much development as that. Poor TK and Shiina.

[blewin]

I think the explanations for and against this series are all reasonable. If the staff really did plan this out so and so, I reckon the problem doesn't lie with the lack of explanations but with the way the story was executed. As somebody said in this thread (forgot the name, been browsing here and there), you don't need to explain everything for a story to make sense. But! the hints and how they are placed play a huge role in bringing out a sense of logic and satisfaction at the end of a series.

Angel Beats could have done better with more episodes. And again, as someone said, if it's not a multi-media project, it might have done better as an anime.