The Novel and Manga of Haruhi Suzumiya

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I dunno. As fun as the SOS Brigade is, and as much as I respect the ideas which led Haruhi to creating it, it is in all honesty a very shortsighted, self-centered, non-productive club. I can forgive, even accept, 15-17 year olds acting in the manner Haruhi does. However, that kind of behaviour and attitude is unbecoming of an adult. I would be embarassed for any kind of adult who went traipsing around looking for aliens because "it's more fun if they exist".

Growing up, changing perspectives...it's a natural thing, you know? Particularly at the age Haruhi is at right now. Somebody described the Haruhi series as a "coming of age story". This strikes me as true. The central conflict of the story is both of the characters learning to grasp that the world is so much bigger than just what they see, just what is around them.

The SOS Brigade was created at the very beginning of the story. The first chapter, even. So I believe that the story will end with its dissolution.

Many fun times have been had for the readers, and we can pretty confidently say the same for Kyon and Haruhi. However, it's much harder to say that for Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi. Yuki may have developed some emotions, but in the end she's still very much removed from the perspective of humans. Half (at least) of the SOS Brigade's activities involve exploiting Mikuru, so I can't imagine she considers these circumstances ideal, either. Koizumi is even more of a doormat, and he can never relax as every second he spends with the SOS Brigade is spent monitering Haruhi's emotional state. And as I mentioned in my previous post, none of them have any relationship to speak of with Haruhi. Anybody who would call their relationships with her "friendship" don't know what friends are. The SOS Brigade's existence is solely an existence of pandering to Haruhi's real world whims, and pandering to Kyon's desire to be a fictional character.

I can appreciate the SOS Brigade because it was the social context Haruhi needed (and still needs, but on an ever diminishing scale) to interact with Kyon. However, the SOS Brigade is very limiting in terms of providing Haruhi with the skills needed to interact with people other than Kyon. That's why it needs to go. Haruhi can't go her whole life taking advantage of Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi, depending only on Kyon, and disrespecting everybody else. Even if she has the power to change the whole world, the world's opinion is what can hurt her. Haruhi has some faith that regardless of the way she treats other people, she is in the end still a good, likeable, person. To keep cushioning her in the SOS Brigade would turn her into a person who ultimately isn't.

So there. I'm just tracing the way Tanigawa's novels are progressing when I say that the SOS Brigade and what he'll tell of Haruhi's story with it are going to end at the very latest by the time they get out of High School. All the rest of the shit up there is why this is a good thing.

It's funny, because I saw the series the first time by accident in chronological, as opposed to airing order. That meant my perception of Haruhi was incredibly negative in the first eps--I saw her as just flat-out MEAN. The only reason I stuck with the series was because of Kyon's sardonic commentary, although I was still irritated at his inability/unwillingness to do much of anything to protect Mikuru. Of course, after the resolution of sorts in the dream sequence between Kyon and Haruhi, she became a much more sympathetic character--the eccentric charm remained, which had always been there, but much of the unpleasantness that marked her personality early on disappeared.

Looking at the novels, which I haven't been able to read all of, but have gotten some familiarity with, I definitely think you're right that this is partly a story of Haruhi learning to make her peace with the "normal" world. And of Kyon recapturing some of the wide-eyed wonder of his youth, as opposed to just being a sardonic and cynical observer. In that way, I think both characters fit each other quite well.

But I think you're right that the end point of this is Haruhi being able to not have to rely on the SOS club to deal with the real world. Part of this involves getting enough self-confidence; the irony is that despite Haruhi's powers, she's so insecure--her jealousy regarding Kyon shows that.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

I don't think that's going to happen since the Lucky Star license announcement was the special mention in vol. 4.

Hey CrowKenobi

Is there any news that you know if the light novels are going to be in English? So far I've not found anything about it. But... one site did mention about license agreement in the works, but they also mention its only a rumor though.

Maybe there is a chance that the books will be licensed, I have the feeling its also based on how well the merchandises of Haruhi Suzumiya is doing or going to do up here in the North America (mainly Canada, USA and Puerto Rico). I have not seen any figures of how its doing here, so I'm just relying on what other sources indicates, such as ANIME NEWS NETWORK.

So... anything is possible at this moment.

Take care

Thank You
Domo Arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

I don't think that's going to happen since the Lucky Star license announcement was the special mention in vol. 4.

OH!!! love your TUBEVIDEO

Just want to say that

Thank you
Domo arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

Hey <Sol Falling> and <CrowKenobi> and everyone else...

I just read that many people believe that in the novels Haruhi is more a Tsundere character being portraited then what is being shown in the mangas and the anime.

I some what agree and disagreed.

What you think....? I just think that some people has the wrong idea what is a Tsundere. A good example I think of is Akane of Ranma 1/2 and Naru of Love Hina, those are great examples of Tsundere characters. Not Haruhi.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[FatPianoBoy]

Kinda bugs me that they used a trailer consisting of only that scene. I understand that not riding the wave of Haruhi-mania is bad business, but complete newbies to Lucky Star may just think the whole show is some kind of weird Haruhi parody.

[typhonsentra]

I'd think LS would be a hard show to promote. Very low action, almost all the humor comes from long, drawn out conversations. To be fair I didn't watch the entire series but that was the impression I was left with.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

almost all the humor comes from long, drawn out conversations.

It kinda reminds me of a cleaner version of Family Guy in that respect.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

I'd think LS would be a hard show to promote. Very low action, almost all the humor comes from long, drawn out conversations. To be fair I didn't watch the entire series but that was the impression I was left with.

Most true OTAKUS like myself not only watch read, and collects all types of anime and related stuff. LS is not a Haruhi MANGA forum though, but I do understand <CrowKenobi> enthusiastic Hardcore with the world of Haruhi, I would be proudly showing or even telling what other material(s) are either showing or even mentioning anything about Haruhi Suzumiya. It's true to being a great fan of it.

Now back to the real topic of Manga and Novels of Suzumiya Haruhi forum, I may be bold about this and that but, something came across about the in Vol2 :The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya. As I started to reread the series again:

Kyon stated:

Spoiler for Kyon:

Nagato has always been the silent type, so I have no idea if any of this is true. But it's very likely
that another sort of conflict is happening outside of my knowledge, perhaps happening in a very
relaxed manner.

Is he stating that there is more to meets the eye about Nagato? Or he is stating that maybe Nagato is not sharing with him about who she is as an individual, not as A humanoid interface created by the Data Integration Thought Entity...?

I read the rest of the paragraph:

Spoiler for Kyon 2nd on nagato:

Even if we're on the verge of Earth's destruction, I believe she'll still remain
silent. If I ask her directly, she might tell me. But, I think she would just say something that is
incomprehensible using the language available to humans, and I don't think I have the intellect to
try to comprehend what she might say.

I believe what he was stating that for his sake, if there was a problem how would he understand Nagato if she was telling him if there was a problem in the first place....? Anyways, I bet Kyon at that point of the story would be able to comprehend what Nagato has to say. Even if its involved with his and Haruhi Safety. I'm sure she would do everything to stop at anyone and/or anything to protect Kyon and Haruhi......mmmmmm?.......... I just wonder if this corresponds to what going on in vol9.......mmmmm?

what if in vol9 Nagato got sick for a purpose? There is something about that board game that happend on both timelines.....mmmmm?

What if, Nagato getting sick is on her way to defy the Data Integration Thought Entity, on not interfering with the course of Kyon and Haruhi.
Or, getting sick is a way to give Kyon an awareness of what's going on, after all the Data Integration Thought Entity can gather information past and future, so in a sense Nagato must know whats going on....

Thank you
Domo arigato

[Sol Falling]

I'm pretty sure that Yuki getting sick has more to do with the Macrospatial Quantum thingy thing. Yuki also got sick during Snow Mountain Syndrome, which they caused, if you'll remember.

Anyway, as for the conflicts going on in the background alluded to in the second Volume, I'd say they could be three things:

1. Disturbances within the Data Integration Thought Entity due to the different factions (stuff like Asakura, etc.)
2. Disturbances due to interactions with the Macrospatial Quantum etc. etc.
3. Disturbances on earth due to various other types of data life forms (the cave cricket and "spirit" from Wandering Shadow).

Koizumi also says similar things about conflicts within the Organization and stuff. We've been given a brief glimpse of that through the other esper group.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I'm pretty sure that Yuki getting sick has more to do with the Macrospatial Quantum thingy thing. Yuki also got sick during Snow Mountain Syndrome, which they caused, if you'll remember.

Anyway, as for the conflicts going on in the background alluded to in the second Volume, I'd say they could be three things:

1. Disturbances within the Data Integration Thought Entity due to the different factions (stuff like Asakura, etc.)
2. Disturbances due to interactions with the Macrospatial Quantum etc. etc.
3. Disturbances on earth due to various other types of data life forms (the cave cricket and "spirit" from Wandering Shadow).

Koizumi also says similar things about conflicts within the Organization and stuff. We've been given a brief glimpse of that through the other esper group.

Thanks <Sol Falling>

There are many theories of Nagato being sick though, I understand that Macrospatial Quantum is behind it. But Just like the Data Integration Thought Entity, they have the ability to received information from the past and the future by synchronizing, somehow I believe Nagato knows that the 2 timelines are split. I think she should have known about it in advance and should have communicated with the SOS crew, specially Kyon.

Maybe the Macrospatial Quantum has somehow disable her communication from the future, therefore Nagato cannot detect that there are 2 timelines. If that is the case, maybe in the ALPHA timeline and BETA timeline, Nagato may suspect that something is wrong over the horizon.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

Since the alternate SOS Dan exists in both alpha and beta timelines it would be logical to assume that the other ESPer thinks that Saski has god powers in both timelines. I really think that she is the only one who does. The interface and time traveler joined because it helps their cause.

I think that they both have power, or represent opposite sides of the same power. Haruhi is caos and Sasaki is order. And Kyon bridges the gap between them.

I know this is about the timelines, but somehow I feel that if Sasaki is behind all, then her intentions were to get Nagato sick. If she is behind on all timelines, then the dominate timeline that she has total control, is where Nagato got sick. There is a factor that Sasaki "wants" Kyon to react in someways, how he feels about the SOS members and the Sasaki Crew, obviously his loyalty and commitment will be Haruhi and all the SOS Brigade. Somehow Sasaki could be playing both sides (ALPHA and BETA timelines) for her own benefit(s). In this case, it's Kyon.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

Thanks <Sol Falling>

There are many theories of Nagato being sick though, I understand that Macrospatial Quantum is behind it. But Just like the Data Integration Thought Entity, they have the ability to received information from the past and the future by synchronizing, somehow I believe Nagato knows that the 2 timelines are split. I think she should have known about it in advance and should have communicated with the SOS crew, specially Kyon.

Maybe the Macrospatial Quantum has somehow disable her communication from the future, therefore Nagato cannot detect that there are 2 timelines. If that is the case, maybe in the ALPHA timeline and BETA timeline, Nagato may suspect that something is wrong over the horizon.

Thank you
Domo arigato

You are forgetting that following the events in "The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi" Yuki will no longer synchronize with her future or past selves, so there is no way for her to know that unless one happens and then the other. And then she would only know it when the second started.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

You are forgetting that following the events in "The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi" Yuki will no longer synchronize with her future or past selves, so there is no way for her to know that unless one happens and then the other. And then she would only know it when the second started.

OH.....THATS RIGHT!!!!

I forgot that she stop her synchronization, then scratch that theory...hehehe.

BUT!!!

Even though she cannot synchronized, but her superior can, in this case is Emiri Kimidori. I think that maybe she must have or may have or maybe not, somehow contacted Nagato? Remember when Kyon was at the Cafe with Sasaki Crew and Emiri Kimidori was working as a waitress. I'm assuming she must have known what was going on, or may be going on.... after all... Kyon was there caught red handed with Sasaki and her Crew.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

You are forgetting that following the events in "The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi" Yuki will no longer synchronize with her future or past selves, so there is no way for her to know that unless one happens and then the other. And then she would only know it when the second started.

Hey <PastPrime>, I'm not sure if its was <X207> or <UPR> or <CrowKenobi>...

since they are senior members here, I'm not sure if the quote is right but some point of the series Kyon and Haruhi will be getting together as... maybe a couple. I don't remember how long it was mention but at some point of their "story", they will be together.

What if vol10 "The Surprise of Suzumiya Haruhi" is when Kyon and Haruhi actually become romantically involved. If that is that case then definitely the series will end or maybe continue in another spin.

Somehow, I believe that vol10 is not the time went they actually get involved. Because...
1. Even if Kyon actually tells her that he has feelings for her, or is in love with her. Haruhi might think he just being a Joker or something along those lines.

2. It's too early in the series for Kyon and Haruhi to get togther as a couple. Haruhi must deal with some issues aswell as Kyon.

3. Even if Kyon mention his feelings, Haruhi at face value will behave that there is nothing about it, but inside she will be the most Happiest person in the world.

If Vol10 is the "Surprise" what Haruhi wants, then its the love that she and Kyon have, that way both grow together as one, you know the perfect fit, the Ying and Yang.

If that happens, than Data Integration Thought Entity, The Organization and Time-Travelers... cannot interfere with them. Kyon and Haruhi will be balance in the universe, and the services of the others SOS Brigade members will not be needed. Thus... in a sense the end of the series.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[Karna]

I know im kind coming out of no where , but after reading volume nine , does anyone feel that maybe haruhi isent the one with god like powers , but.....

Spoiler:

"kyon is, allthough he just dosent know it .I just get a really weird feeling that he is. after reading about sasaki(kyons midddle school friend) and how she is believed to be god by some of the supernatral factions ,(the one oposing nagatos koizumis and asahinas factions). their orgonizations said that sasaki originally had haruhis powers and somehow sasakis powers were transferred to haruhi. what if thats kinda true , but the way they were transferred was that kyon gave the powers to them , meaning that origanally sasaki had the powers but after kyon met haruhi he felt she was more suitable to have those powers and gave them to her. of course though ,kyon is doing this subcontiosly(sp) . besides , wasent it kyon who also said he wanted all of these supernatral things to exist before he got into high school....?"]

Id just like some other peoples thoughts on this. of course these are just my personal opinions and i have no way to back them up

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by FOURTAILNARUTO

I know im kind coming out of no where , but after reading volume nine , does anyone feel that maybe haruhi isent the one with god like powers , but.....

Spoiler:

"kyon is, allthough he just dosent know it .I just get a really weird feeling that he is. after reading about sasaki(kyons midddle school friend) and how she is believed to be god by some of the supernatral factions ,(the one oposing nagatos koizumis and asahinas factions). their orgonizations said that sasaki originally had haruhis powers and somehow sasakis powers were transferred to haruhi. what if thats kinda true , but the way they were transferred was that kyon gave the powers to them , meaning that origanally sasaki had the powers but after kyon met haruhi he felt she was more suitable to have those powers and gave them to her. of course though ,kyon is doing this subcontiosly(sp) . besides , wasent it kyon who also said he wanted all of these supernatral things to exist before he got into high school....?"]

Id just like some other peoples thoughts on this. of course these are just my personal opinions and i have no way to back them up

ya... i believe it to, but what if it's actaully kyon's doing...(?)
So far there is the TIME PHASE theory, check on <Sol Falling>, he/she has a great explanation on it.
Here a bit of it:
Starting at paragraph 5 above, I make the assuption that each time plane has a "locus" of sorts that represents it's proper place in time. This provided a buffer of empty "time loci" protecting the origin time plane. I assumed that this was necessary to prevent time paradoxes. Actually, though, it isn't, because the history of the origin time plane is protected since it's also advancing in time and generating new time planes itself. So in effect, after travelling to the past a timeline would look like this (where + indicates that that time plane is generating or overwriting new planes):

2005-2006-2007+5289+

This diagram shows 2007 about to overwrite 5289 with 2008, but the existance of 5289's reality will be safe because it is just about to generate 5290 anyway.

In this case, travelling to the future would merely be stepping from the past time plane to the one directly in front of it, without involving any time plane destruction at all. This also means that it becomes impossible for one to return to the origin point of time in the future; once one returns to the future, an equal amount of time would have passed as the time spent in the past.

So basically, this edit contradicts the stuff in paragraphs 6 and 7 and invalidates explanation number two of Haruhi's time quake, while paragraphs 8 and 9 are still basically valid. I guess there's an assumption in this theory too, though, in that I'm assuming that the overwriting/generation rate of time planes at both the destination and origin points in time are the same. Still a better assumption than loci, though.

Then the Sasaki crew theory, that she is somehow behind it.

Then there is the Kyonist theory, that somehow, Kyon unwilling is behind it.

There are so many theories that I believe at this point we have to wait until vol10, and see whats up.


Thank you
Domo arigato

[Karna]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

ya... i believe it to, but what if it's actaully kyon's doing...(?)
So far there is the TIME PHASE theory, check on <Sol Falling>, he/she has a great explanation on it.
Here a bit of it:
Starting at paragraph 5 above, I make the assuption that each time plane has a "locus" of sorts that represents it's proper place in time. This provided a buffer of empty "time loci" protecting the origin time plane. I assumed that this was necessary to prevent time paradoxes. Actually, though, it isn't, because the history of the origin time plane is protected since it's also advancing in time and generating new time planes itself. So in effect, after travelling to the past a timeline would look like this (where + indicates that that time plane is generating or overwriting new planes):

2005-2006-2007+5289+

This diagram shows 2007 about to overwrite 5289 with 2008, but the existance of 5289's reality will be safe because it is just about to generate 5290 anyway.

In this case, travelling to the future would merely be stepping from the past time plane to the one directly in front of it, without involving any time plane destruction at all. This also means that it becomes impossible for one to return to the origin point of time in the future; once one returns to the future, an equal amount of time would have passed as the time spent in the past.

So basically, this edit contradicts the stuff in paragraphs 6 and 7 and invalidates explanation number two of Haruhi's time quake, while paragraphs 8 and 9 are still basically valid. I guess there's an assumption in this theory too, though, in that I'm assuming that the overwriting/generation rate of time planes at both the destination and origin points in time are the same. Still a better assumption than loci, though.

Then the Sasaki crew theory, that she is somehow behind it.

Then there is the Kyonist theory, that somehow, Kyon unwilling is behind it.

There are so many theories that I believe at this point we have to wait until vol10, and see whats up.


Thank you
Domo arigato

do you have a link to these theories , they intrest me


thanks

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by FOURTAILNARUTO

do you have a link to these theories , they intrest me


thanks

They are all in here, in this forum

enjoy

thank you
domo arigato

[ClockWorkAngel]

Well for now all and about ever theory could be disproven if somehow the Surprise brings in a whole bunch of new aspects (Though I doubt that). And all the theories about what the "surprise" would be hmmm. I have my own thoughts on that too. It may or may not lead to the end of the series. However I sincerely doubt that Haruhi would ever proclaim her love for Kyon, it doesn't seem like her at all. It may turn out that she wouldn't be ready for it at all and if Kyon does go on with a generic confession Haruhi might just be speechless! Fingers crossed, I hope the series doesn't end!

[Karna]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

They are all in here, in this forum

enjoy

thank you
domo arigato

thanks i found some