Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[Crusader]

Another thing is i couldn't get too much into the battles cuase the character actions weren't interesting. I mean, I Neo shinn could have been a good rivalry. i mean It had th ebases for a rivalry.

Neo cared about stellar some what, and he lied too shin, wich would have made things better. It was just simple battles lackign any interesting arguments. that was somethign sorely missed.

[demon_god04]

Its a shame too because GSD had some nice characters, but the lack of meaningful interaction and general development pretty much made the fights seem more like fanservice then anything -.-

At the end the fights seem more like "omg look at <insert gundam> go! omg it pwns anything!!!" rather then real battles

[Laik]

Didn't expect this thread to be so popular.

I already said what I wanted to say earlier but I have to agree with one of the previous post. What sense does it make to argue who is the better pilot or what not? The best pilot doesn't always win. Kira wasn't exactly right but Shinn wasn't exactly wrong.

However, the fights in Gundam are flashy for a reason. If things got real serious then Kira would have died before he even made Strike move. I'm not going to complain about that though since the fights in Gundam were and are actually interesting for the most part.

Someone already highlighted one of the things I disliked. The way Kira and Lacus came across as being overzealous could have been better. I've seen a lot of scenes where the 'bad guy' wonders where he went wrong and then the protagonist enters and explains everything with the idea that he was completely right in killing the 'bad guy'. Believe me. A lot of them can make you cringe and the way Kira voiced his ideas made him sound a bit selfish as opposed to caring for everyone around the world. To me, it was kind of a hit on his character since I personally would believe that Kira was the type of character to be defensive of his ideals and friends as opposed to someone like Athrun who would act when he felt like he had to.

That's one of the worse parts of Destiny to me but Cagali's transformation balanced it out so it's all good.

[FogHog]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Its a shame too because GSD had some nice characters, but the lack of meaningful interaction and general development pretty much made the fights seem more like fanservice then anything -.-

At the end the fights seem more like "omg look at <insert gundam> go! omg it pwns anything!!!" rather then real battles

Even then the battles weren't exactly exciting as all were plagued by stock footage and was repeadedly lopsided except for the first two EP. The expectation for an exciting and evenly matched final showdown was the only thing that kept me watching GSD as i had lost all hope for the story. After all, the tension and drama i witnessed in the last two ep of Gseed was one of the most memorable one IMO even amongst any gundam. And man, was I so horribly wrong.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by tetsuo69

yeah a non seed kira..i dont see anything big here as neither of them were able to land a hit

Well, neither them got to hit each other, which was a good thing. What do you think would happen if somebody got so hit early on in the series (SEED Kira and SEED Shinn)? If Kira got hit, for Shinn fans. If Shinn got hit, for Kira fans. So maybe that was why it was a draw.

i dont even want to go into ep 32.. it was the start of shinn plot device against any Destroy after this the shield wouldnt go up on shinn but on kira it would

Shinn had just the unfortunate bonus in reading the specs of Destroy, in which Kira wasn't able to. But please, come on, seeing all the rainbow spam attacks bounce helplessly off the Destroy, can't even Kira take a hint...?

is that so would you care to tell me what kind of plot divice shinn pull right b4 Freedom lost one of its wing? that sure was tactics..right? and lets not forget kira becoming a noob right after taking impulse head and arm easily

I wasn't pertaining to that. I was pertaining to the "Kira presses the NJC stop button or whatever" after it exploded. And it was all plot device for Kira's favor, because he was SO unjustly distracted so that his loss wouldn't appear so bad to his rabid fanatics. And so loses points for Shinn.

Shinn clearly won this one using tactics, with the help of Darth Rey. He actually took time out to study his opponent, which Kira didn't do (I mean, after watching Shinn in Impulse action a few eps or whatever and all he could think about is trying not to get the cockpit hit... ). But of course, because of the plot device, Shinn is still teh evilness in comparison to what Kira did, and that was the one thing I didn't really like. At LEAST when you're trying to build up a rivalry between these 2, make it believable that one side actually won and one side actually lost.

what can i say about Ep 42-43... just that kira got his skills back and asuran the same.. after making him look like an idiot for 43 Eps in the eyes of shinn..

After getting a new toy? Yeah, right.

It appears in GSD that Kira only gets better when he gets a new toy, and it has nothing to do with piloting skills or whatever. Shinn has been pretty consistent in his winning streak, that 30 Windam massacre aside (because he was the only one who was actually doing something at that moment and Athrun was not really that enough of the kick ass ace yet as he did in SEED). Whereas Kira was staring at the sea for the last 2 years, but somehow he mysteriously became a Super Ace of Aces, and has been going on that ridiculous power trip until Shinn proved him wrong. Shinn was doing great until Strike Freedom came into play, and of course, plot device, Strike Freedom has to beat the crap out of Destiny.

I do not believe that Kira got the full "feel" of Freedom, so to speak, after the Jachin Due war. Kira was having trouble with the Freedom VS Rau. How the heck are you going to explain his GODlike abilities the time it resurfaced in that Orb EA ZAFT battle, disabling everything that it could get its rainbow attack on? He can't really be trying to do some simulations on his quantum computer now, can he? I mean, it's going against his belief that war is wrong, and of course he still has some scars left from that previous war to try even think of going on Freedom again. And he can't be going around doing some practice shots with the Freedom, as that huge thing could actually be seen from space or whatever..unless, of course, if Onogoro Island is near to the military facilities and that area is not detectable from outer space...

they got the treatment the destroy were getting from them Rofl

No. Destiny and Legend were victims of plot device. Those powerful suits, plus their super capable pilots, raped in just one episode? Please do not make me laugh.

Strike Freedom has all the capabilities of the original Freedom + METEOR + Super DRAGOONS > Destiny + all Silhouettes packed into one + Shining Finger + Wings of Light (in terms of GODlike abilities and the power of the Lacus dust and plot device). Then, of course, it's Kira and Shinn piloting them. Who is the apple of Fukuda's eyes? Do the math.

@ vio5555

It's not just trying to make the views balanced on each side of the playing field that would make this as a really great series. It would also help a lot if Fukuda actually said something definite about everything he's trying to present to us in a concrete, more believable way.

And sadly, everything would still continue with the fanbase attacks because this is one thing Fukuda wasn't able to do, and so have flames going up on either side of the battlefield. Either way, it couldn't be helped.

@ Testament

Shinn's character was actually getting pretty interesting until the point where Athrun had to defect. He had all these flaws going up against him, but still, you couldn't actually say that he was being inconsistent. He wasn't an idiot from one episode to a super enlightened Jedi master the next. Wow, he didn't even mope about his destroyed Gundam! He actually had to go through all that shit like any good "main character" would, and then...his characterization vaporized into thin air. If given enough time to develop, I could say for certain that Shinn would be > Kira, because unlike someone who just got a GOD suit, he didn't actually turn out for the worse (and I really didn't like Kira after getting the Freedom). What is it that some old cast fans have with Shinn's personality? Yeah, he's arrogant, he's a jackass, but that's just the way he is. Then, would you rather have Shinn's development cut off from the start of the series? Turn him into some Kira clone with absolutely no personality? I highly doubt you would like that, and so his character would be pushed way below the top 100 mark in any popularity poll faster than a speeding rainbow attack.

What is it about Shinn's consistency that doesn't make any sense? Did Kira's enlightenment make any sense to you? Shinn still believed the same things he believed from ep 1 of GSD, whereas Kira's beliefs were riddled with inconsistencies and very obvious scenarios that make his character >>>>>>>> (infinite arrows) over Shinn. Kira developed/progressed in SEED? Yeah, in leaps and bounds, if I may add. If ever, I believe that his character took a turn for the worse. And these are the words of a Kira fangirl before someone showed me the light.

Shinn never was invincible, his suit got thrashed several times, he always has a problem with authority (and Rey and Lunamaria and Athrun has to say "Shinn" over and over again and he still doesn't listen), he picks fights with little girls, he disobeyed military orders in order to save another girl's life and he knew he was being a total idiot at that time, and then he saw his mentor Athrun Savioured in front of him...I say, what doesn't add up here? He doesn't go out into the battlefield delivering everything with boring precision like a master brain surgeon and doesn't act like he owns everyone who come within 500 meters away from him with a calm, detached expression on his face like "well, just like yesterday, slash, dash, scream, repeat just like what I did to grunt # 252349843..." He only gets angry when you give him enough reason to be angry and has an actual grasp of what words could only do in a world embroiled in war. Too bad he had to go bye bye...

Originally Posted by Demongod86

And against Destroy, I specifically meant when Impulse attacked Freedom with Shinn shouting "YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!"

That's what I meant.

Well, Kira didn't KNOW anything, right? Why was it wrong for Shinn to shout something like that? It would make more sense to call him an idiot if Kira actually knew something of what the hell was going on back there and Shinn shouted something stupid like that.

And the Stellar Destroy incident, I don't like to repeat myself for the umpteenth time...

As for Shinn getting the raw deal of GSD... no, it was more of Kira's fanbase VS Shinn's fanbase. And this is the first time I've ever heard of a main character nerfed in his own show in favor of a returning character.

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

Also it was hinted that Mwu was starting to get his memories back after the Berlin battle when AA was attacked he said something like; "Why is it always like this here". With a suitable reaction afterwards.

This guy was positron beamed into hell. ANTIMATTER. No, it doesn't make any sense how the hell he survived in GSD.

@ Anh_Minh

Meer was the only obvious thing he did. The rest are just "figments of my imagination".

[moshun]

cliffhanger!

Spoiler:

any idea who Talia's son is? i have a feeling he will be the new "enemy" in the 3rd installment.

[Demongod86]

To say that Kira has the godsuit while Shinn does not have a god suit is ridiculous. Did you even see what the heck Shinn did to those destroys? HE FUCKING SPLIT A DESTROY IN HALF WITH ONE HIT!!! What Kira and Shinn were struggling with for an entire episode 32 Shinn did FIVE TIMES OVER within the course of FIVE MINUTES thanks to the power of the Destiny! You don't call that a GOD suit? Unless you have Freedom's or Justice's absolutely INSANE maneuverability and speed, you're DEAD (bar character shields). Kira had the best ranged mobile suit, Athrun had the best melee suit, and Shinn had the best mobile suit for any other occasion. Destiny is not the most amazing suit at anything, but it's DAMN GOOD at just about ANYTHING.

Also, Kira and Athrun are of a better skill than Shinn is. It comes from experience. 2 wars>1 war.

[Crusader]

If Gilbert piloted a gundam, it would be better then kira versus rey. Heck kira didn't even know who Rey was till that last minute, which made the battle interaction less pointless. it would have been netter had kira actually met him lik ehe met rau, btu we never see such interaction.

the onyl time we saw that was shinn handign stleer over to neo, and then a few eps later that is dropped like a bad rag when ti could ahve made the series a lot mor eintersting had neo stayed with ea. so he and shinn coudl settle there differcnes over stellar,,, like

Shinn: why did you send stellar into abttle, you prmised!
Neo: You're a fool! you said you were goign to portect her
Shin: pwned expression
Neo: It's your fualt stellar died.....
Shin: pwned some more

Kira gildes by spamming them both.

[demon_god04]

At the battle of Orb Shinn was literally flying circles around SF, all Kira managed to do was block beam shots and fire ineffectively because Shinn totally out maneuvered him in the Destiny...... Shinn should have put up alot more of a fight against Athrun, thats all im saying on this -.-

Originally Posted by Crusader

Kira gildes by spamming them both.

Made me spill my coffee

[tetsuo69]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

To say that Kira has the godsuit while Shinn does not have a god suit is ridiculous. Did you even see what the heck Shinn did to those destroys? HE FUCKING SPLIT A DESTROY IN HALF WITH ONE HIT!!! What Kira and Shinn were struggling with for an entire episode 32 Shinn did FIVE TIMES OVER within the course of FIVE MINUTES thanks to the power of the Destiny! You don't call that a GOD suit? Unless you have Freedom's or Justice's absolutely INSANE maneuverability and speed, you're DEAD (bar character shields). Kira had the best ranged mobile suit, Athrun had the best melee suit, and Shinn had the best mobile suit for any other occasion. Destiny is not the most amazing suit at anything, but it's DAMN GOOD at just about ANYTHING.

Also, Kira and Athrun are of a better skill than Shinn is. It comes from experience. 2 wars>1 war.

nicely said demongod

Made me spill my coffee

it was sure funny XD

seeing all the rainbow spam attacks bounce helplessly off the Destroy, can't even Kira take a hint...?

kira did try to go in with a saber .. just like shinn but he was stop by the shields Rofl


i wouldn like to add this
The only times Rey tactics work on kira.. yes Rey tectics not shinn
were b4 kira disable impulse...

this was taken right after this scene..

Rey-
The Freedom is ineed fast...
His Aim is also accurate..
but that unit never aims for the cockpit.
he always Aims for the weapons or the main camera..
thats where the impulse chances lies..

i think if shinn and fukuda had kept showing how kira was in a in a disavatage cause of his no kill policy it would had been a great ep...rather than making kira a noob .cuz in the end i did enjoy seeing kira lose and not some kind of god that is always winning

[srb]

Yes, but the problem is that he was portrayed as an unbeatable God before that episode, performing better than he did in his prime in GS, and that was just a load of shit, just like making 30 Windams + Chaos + Neo in his souped-up Windam look like nothing more than a playdate for Shinn and Athrun to have some fun (well, for Shinn at least).

While 34 had the show's best fight and fight choreography, a lot of it was ruined due to the previous presentation of the God-Emperor of the Imperium of Man, Kira Yamato and the later "oh lulz, I wasn't really paying attention" excuse from him.

The main problem with the GSD show itself (except appalling re-use of animations) outside of the shoddy planning and execution is the show's almost complete lack of credibility.

[Demongod86]

Srb, the fight between Kira and Shinn was half reused scenes. They reused the Kira v. Shinn from the destroy fight, and even from the first OP. Kira lands one good hit on Shinn then Shinn bounces Kira around some, has impulse fart freedom's wing off, and then impales Kira when Kira's already retreating since his mission (get AA out of there) was complete.

And then Kira pwns Shinn, and when Athrun asks him what happened, he just says "lols, wasn't trying."

Now you can call that a load of shit, but Kira's performance after that point really proves Kira's statement true, that Kira WASN'T really performing to the best of his ability in ep 34.

Or was Rey pwned by a guy that Shinn in Impulse could beat with just a little planning? And then Shinn got pwned twice by a guy that got pwned by the guy he beat with just a little planning. Makes Rey look stupid, and then Shinn doubly so. So...if you want to save Shinn and Rey some face, the best conclusion would be that Kira was under par to such an extent that he was beaten by an inferior suit and some planning.

[srb]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Srb, the fight between Kira and Shinn was half reused scenes. They reused the Kira v. Shinn from the destroy fight, and even from the first OP.

Half is pushing it, although there were certainly re-used sequences - just not as many as would come or as many as there had been in the previous fights, and the new ones were very nicely done and the fight had a good flow to it.

Funny thing that the sequence from the first op, which had basically become the "Shinn vs Kira" sequence in most people's minds after a few episodes... was first used between Athrun and Kira .

And then Kira pwns Shinn, and when Athrun asks him what happened, he just says "lols, wasn't trying."

Now you can call that a load of shit, but Kira's performance after that point really proves Kira's statement true, that Kira WASN'T really performing to the best of his ability in ep 34.

It is a load of shit since both Shinn and Kira received instant level-ups when it was convenient without much of an explanation behind it, and because it destroyed the credibility of the fight.

Or was Rey pwned by a guy that Shinn in Impulse could beat with just a little planning? And then Shinn got pwned twice by a guy that got pwned by the guy he beat with just a little planning. Makes Rey look stupid, and then Shinn doubly so. So...if you want to save Shinn and Rey some face, the best conclusion would be that Kira was under par to such an extent that he was beaten by an inferior suit and some planning.

He was beaten by a not very much inferior suit (except for firepower and energy, of course. Freedom's vastly superior in those areas) and planning, but a lot of it had no credibility since Kira "had" to lose, and then it lost even further credibility after the comment about how he was distracted.

And really, calling anyone in CE stupid isn't an insult to anyone ^^.

[_X12A_Testament]

Shinn bounces Kira around some, has impulse fart freedom's wing off

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA!!!!

[_X12A_Testament]

One major thing I don't know if anyone has brought up again is the fact that Shinn has time to re-assemble his Impulse with an endless supply of packs after Kira destroys some. What, is Kira just picking is ass waiting for Shinn to get ready again?

Without this handy plot device, Kira would have picked off each part as it was launching out of minerva....

Kira: "Got anymore? This is fun"

[FogHog]

I guess that's what kira meant when he said he was "distracted". Or he probably needed disposed some human waste (which of course he'll never do because he's so pretty)

[_X12A_Testament]

Imagine a ten minute Impulse formation that keeps getting interupted because Kira keeps Shooting a pack before Shinn can finish.

Shinn: "STOP IIIIIT!!!!!! "

[srb]

Originally Posted by _X12A_Testament

One major thing I don't know if anyone has brought up again is the fact that Shinn has time to re-assemble his Impulse with an endless supply of packs after Kira destroys some. What, is Kira just picking is ass waiting for Shinn to get ready again?

Actually, Freedom was rolling down a mountain. Did you manage not to pay attention at all in the episode and actually believed that Kira was sitting in the cockpit and painting his fingernails or something?

Kira's dumb, but he's not that dumb.

[tetsuo69]

Shinn bounces Kira around some, has impulse fart freedom's wing off

shinn had some chinese food and some mexican food right b4 going into battle Rofl

[shaolo]

Originally Posted by srb

Actually, Freedom was rolling down a mountain. Did you manage not to pay attention at all in the episode and actually believed that Kira was sitting in the cockpit and painting his fingernails or something?

Kira's dumb, but he's not that dumb.

OR IS HE?