North Korea Crisis

[AmeNoJaku]

Do you guys realize that apart from all the militaristic otakuness of this thread, whether you are right or wrong about NK, SK, USA capabilities, will, intention, balls, etc. hundreds maybe thousands or even millions people will die that have no say in the formation of the policies from the above countries

Let me offer an analogy here, a little bullied boy mans up and overreacts by killing those that bullied him, but instead of the social praise for acting like a man that he expected, he is instead executed as a serial killer... it's not that anyone is right in this analogy, quite the opposite, everyone is wrong, and the society that can let something like this happen shouldn't exist... but unfortunately, these things do happen, and when the individuals are countries, things look even more bleak

[Skane]

That's a horrible analogy... North Korea is far from being a bully victim. N.Korea is more akin to an abusive husband who regularly beats up his wife and kids, leeches from them while still being unemployed and surviving on welfare and handouts from his neighbour, Mr China who doesn't actually like Mr NK, but doesn't want his family to starve to death. Unfortunately, Mr NK spends the money on guns and booze, while only giving a pittance to his family.

Meanwhile, he has an attack Chihuahua that is super vicious and regularly shits on other people's lawn. Sometimes it even bites the children of Mr Japan and Mr SKorea, but Mr NK just laughs it off. When people want to settle the score with Mr NK, Mr China protects him, not because he likes him, but because Mr China owes a blood debt to Mr NK. Mr China however... is getting pretty tired of Mr NK's shit, and once the next generation arrives, the one after the blood debt, they will probably wipe their hands clean off Mr NK.

Natch.

[AmeNoJaku]

Obviously, you have a very high opinion over bulling victims

[Seitsuki]

NK is not a victim. NK's people are victims, but NK in its political sense is nowhere close to the definition of the word.

And I don't know about you but if some bullied kid snapped and killed a bunch of guys the last thing I'd do is praise him, it'd be 'get his ass over to the nearest institution and try salvage him before it's too late'. If he'd rather keep ranting and waving his knife around though, well, we have a problem.

[Skane]

The only reason NK even has the "guts" to sabre-rattle is because China still grudgingly honours its "debt" to them. The day China says, "Enough is enough, you're on your own." North Korea is toast.

ADD] Heck, other countries wouldn't even need to invade North Korea. China just needs to cut off its supply line to North Korea and North Korea will implode on its own.

Natch.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

NK is not a victim. NK's people are victims, but NK in its political sense is nowhere close to the definition of the word.

And I don't know about you but if some bullied kid snapped and killed a bunch of guys the last thing I'd do is praise him, it'd be 'get his ass over to the nearest institution and try salvage him before it's too late'. If he'd rather keep ranting and waving his knife around though, well, we have a problem.

[vitriol+sarcasm]Being a bully victim myself, I think the best act would be to sit around and let him cut up as many people unrelated to me as I can, while placing bets on what equipment is used in the process and their relative effectiveness.

Since both sides are wrong, it is time for karma itself create a substantial reminder to the rest of the world about the dangers of bullying. Of course, protection must be given to myself, those related to me by blood or friendship, and the punters.

As for the money? Well it would probably be donated to a bully victims' fund to hire lawyers, and make more money out of it. [/vitriol+sarcasm]

[Seitsuki]

Aww, it's ok. I'll still accept you.

Hug?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Aww, it's ok. I'll still accept you.

Hug?

Get in a lolita costume first? I promise I won't flip the skirt or sell you off.

Well, be it "immoral" or not, the entire situation and what's brought forth from it is still a natural reaction force to restore a balance in some way, one way or and another. Granted innocents will be killed and hurt in the process, however karma is, and always has been, a bitch and it bites both ways. And sometimes it really sucks when it affects others.

That is why there is the term of "necessary evil"; it serves as a reminder of vigilance for us not to overdo things or underestimate others, and rather, make an attempt extend some bridge in order for an understanding to be reached.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Skane

The only reason NK even has the "guts" to sabre-rattle is because China still grudgingly honours its "debt" to them. The day China says, "Enough is enough, you're on your own." North Korea is toast.

ADD] Heck, other countries wouldn't even need to invade North Korea. China just needs to cut off its supply line to North Korea and North Korea will implode on its own.

Natch.

Or take South Korea with them.

Desperate attempt to win over South Korea in 3 days for examples, can see them throw millions of both militarily and conscripted man over the DMZ and filled Seoul with artillery shell and missiles.

If they managed to win or even just take Seoul. South Korean economy is collapsed, bring along part of Asia and world economy. If they lost, Seoul still have more holes than Swiss cheese, bodies lies across the DMZ from both sides, North Korean government collapsed, bring chaos to the whole state, and we will see millions of immigrant of whatever left over up there tried to cross the DMZ into war-torn Seoul. South Korean society will collapse just like that



North Korea may have a chances to actually win something. South Korea basically are in lose-lose situation. It is terrible if we try to push them in corner now.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Do you guys realize that apart from all the militaristic otakuness of this thread, whether you are right or wrong about NK, SK, USA capabilities, will, intention, balls, etc. hundreds maybe thousands or even millions people will die that have no say in the formation of the policies from the above countries (

I'm rather bemused by your insinuation that trying to be knowledgeable about military affairs is "otakuness". As if the ways the various nations of the world utilize their military resources was somehow a trivial aspect of how the world worked. How can you imply that's the case when you go on to note that the stakes ARE in fact the possibility of hundreds of thousands to millions of people dying?

Really. I don't understand what point you're getting at. Are you saying everyone in this thread should stop talking about important international matters like this?

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Let me offer an analogy here, a little bullied boy mans up and overreacts by killing those that bullied him, but instead of the social praise for acting like a man that he expected, he is instead executed as a serial killer... it's not that anyone is right in this analogy, quite the opposite, everyone is wrong, and the society that can let something like this happen shouldn't exist... but unfortunately, these things do happen, and when the individuals are countries, things look even more bleak

That's a horrible analogy.

If North Korea is some bullied, then what do you call ten years of South Korea maintaining a sunshine policy towards north Korea? There was plenty of political and popular support in South korea to maintain good relations with the North, and that was active policy for a decade. Then what does schoolboy North Korea does? It starts exploding M80 firecrackers in the class hallways, freaking everyone out, and despite having made prior promises to not explode firecrackers.


I find it preposterous that you're drawing moral equivalence between a liberal democracy like South Korea and a totalitarian regime like North Korea that's ruined the standard of living of its people, and to compensate needs to howl the mantra of militarism.

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Obviously, you have a very high opinion over bulling victims

That makes the presumption that North Korea is a bully victim. If anything, they're more comparable to Seung-Hui Cho prior to him shooting up Virginia Tech.

Was Cho a bully victim? No. Was a psycho loony who terrified everyone around him.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Skane

ADD] Heck, other countries wouldn't even need to invade North Korea. China just needs to cut off its supply line to North Korea and North Korea will implode on its own.

DPRK lived for a decade without any aid in the worst famine from 1995 to 2004. I wouldn't say PRC would be much of a factor.

[Skane]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

DPRK lived for a decade without any aid in the worst famine from 1995 to 2004. I wouldn't say PRC would be much of a factor.

They received aid, including from the very people they're barking at now. If the food aid dropped to zero... well... I hope they find rocks edible.

Natch.

[Tom Bombadil]

Originally Posted by Skane

The only reason NK even has the "guts" to sabre-rattle is because China still grudgingly honours its "debt" to them. The day China says, "Enough is enough, you're on your own." North Korea is toast.

ADD] Heck, other countries wouldn't even need to invade North Korea. China just needs to cut off its supply line to North Korea and North Korea will implode on its own.

Natch.

What debt would that be?

[Skane]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

What debt would that be?

The Chinese Civil War.

Cheers.

[Tom Bombadil]

Originally Posted by Skane

The Chinese Civil War.

Cheers.

lol~~~~

lol~~~~

lol~~~~.

That's a good one. Sir.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Skane

The Chinese Civil War.

Cheers.

On the other hand, the Chinese sorta already paid that off by keeping North Korea from being conquered by the UN forces. And it was over a half century ago. and pretty soon there aren't going to be any Chinese politicians alive today who even remember the revolution and the Korean war.

Younger Chinese political officials have probably been asking what they intrinsically gain from North Korea as an ally.


And as Tom Bombadil said...considering the scale of the Chinese Civil War, while North Korean contributions were helpful, they probably weren't decisive in the way the Soviet aid was.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Skane

They received aid, including from the very people they're barking at now. If the food aid dropped to zero... well... I hope they find rocks edible.

Natch.

You mean the "aid" that goes into the military stockpiles without actual distribution to the people?

[Skane]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

You mean the "aid" that goes into the military stockpiles without actual distribution to the people?

Which is probably why millions still died during the famine. Now imagine if the aid was zero and they couldn't feed the soldiers who protect them either...

Natch.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Younger Chinese political officials have probably been asking what they intrinsically gain from North Korea as an ally.

Probably to avoid having a irredentist Korea who is fed up with the arrogance a certain entity shows around.

Originally Posted by Skane

Which is probably why millions still died during the famine. Now imagine if the aid was zero and they couldn't feed the soldiers who protect them either...

Actually, they can feed the soldiers without the aid. When I say stockpile, I literally mean stockpile: They don't use the food aid for anything.

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

DPRK lived for a decade without any aid in the worst famine from 1995 to 2004. I wouldn't say PRC would be much of a factor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine

12 million tons of food is nothing?

Also, if China's portion of the aid is actually immaterial (which is actually about the same SK gives), then why does the rest of the world bitch about China aiding North Korea. When

1) such aids is actually immaterial that means nothing in the long run.

2) If material, why no one criticize South Korea for feeding NK, thus rewarding "bad behavior"

3) It is just politics-when all else fails, blame china for the source of all is wrong in the world.