AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2018-09-06, 08:44   Link #441
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Who did? Certainly not Ainz and Demi-Urge.
You are dodging the issue. Nobody said anything about Ainz being the one who lied to the workers (even though he probably requested that).

The issue here is that the workers were willing to risk their lives in a game with certain odds. And they ended up in a game that was literally out of the world they knew. And Ainz was well aware of that. This means he cannot say "they came here with full knowledge of the risks". No really, they didn't.

At any rate this is a dead argument. The fact that a policeman knows he's risking his life doesn't decrease in the least the culpability of the criminal that kills him.

The only argument that can hold here is that someone who does bad things shouldn't complain if bad things happen to him.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-06, 09:29   Link #442
pervypig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Beauty King! Strong King! Love King! Lol!

OMG, for Mare to suggest Love King... it's tickling my fudanshi heart again.

But honestly though, this episode is really badly animated. There're so many cuts and poor animation that ima reminded of last season.
pervypig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-06, 09:41   Link #443
Mr. DJ
Schwing!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central Texas
Age: 39
So...to sum things up

Spoiler for for image size ;p:
Mr. DJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-06, 10:29   Link #444
Yan3242
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
^holy shit that cant more true than that
Yan3242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-06, 17:53   Link #445
DemonneoPT
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by pervypig View Post

But honestly though, this episode is really badly animated. There're so many cuts and poor animation that ima reminded of last season.
IMO, Overlord only had one decent animated episode since season 1, and it was in the fight between Momon and Clementine. Everything else was a joke. Well, at least it's not an abomination like the new Berserk anime but still, far from what one would expect from Madhouse. But since we are getting more than one season, i should not complain about it (while still complaining)

At least they nail the art style for the most part
DemonneoPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-06, 18:21   Link #446
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymene View Post
Can we all stop talking about the Workers ? They're side characters whose purpose is to only appear in one small story arc , and not that important to the main plot like other side characters who will continue to play a role in the story like the previous couple from the Goblin arc, Zaryusu, Emperor Jircniv, Fluder, etc.....
The Workers probably became way too relate-able for those who play RPGs. Basically defending the Worker's actions became the same as defending themselves.

But that's the thing. The whole reason Nine's Own Goal existed as a guild was because players took for granted that monster characters are just EXP packages. It is hard to see things from the other end, to see the raid of the tomb as a bad thing.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 00:39   Link #447
The 48th Ronin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Anywhere. I'm a nomad.
This episode reminds me again why I like Overlord. Side characters are so fleshed out you can't help but think they're major players in the story... even though you knew deep down they're soon to become casualties of Nazarick's rise to power.

PS: Even Jircniv knew Renner is something you shouldn't touch even with a ten foot pole.
__________________
.
"You can always die. It's living that takes real courage."
.
The 48th Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 06:55   Link #448
moridin84
Custom User Title
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The Workers probably became way too relate-able for those who play RPGs. Basically defending the Worker's actions became the same as defending themselves.

But that's the thing. The whole reason Nine's Own Goal existed as a guild was because players took for granted that monster characters are just EXP packages. It is hard to see things from the other end, to see the raid of the tomb as a bad thing.
It's the opposite. People defending Ainz are defending themselves.
moridin84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 18:37   Link #449
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
It's the opposite. People defending Ainz are defending themselves.
I will never understand the idea that characters should be given special treatment because of their physical appearance. Now that I did some reading of the novels, I notice a pattern; dozens of characters that only exist in one single chapter, still gets their backstory fleshed out before they die. The anime tend to cut them out to save time, but the novels made it clear that Arche is not some special snowflake. EVERYONE has stories. EVERYONE has families. Even if they are not girls. Even if they are not physically attractive. Tragedy occurs daily in the Overlord universe, and it makes no sense to single out Arche.

And it always bears repeating, that the author deliberately showed the loan sharks lending to Arche's parents as actually reasonable people; it is unusual narratively, but a deliberate choice. They didn't lend them money in order to take the kids later, they likely don't deal in slaves at all. So the only reason the kids were sold as slaves was because the parents choose to sell them for money. The parents are not starving; they are not fighting for survival. And yet they sold their children. I see that as far greater a crime than Arche's death. And yet, people blame Ainz.

it is just easier to blame an undead.

Then again, as Ainz would say, he is aware of his own hypocrisy. As later on he would look at a race of monsters and desire he needs some of them dead, because he wanted to harvest their bodies for valuable parts. Ainz isn't opposed to the Workers in the direct sense, he just believes that if you want to rob someone, then you better not lose. That you can't expect the victor to be merciful.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 20:03   Link #450
moridin84
Custom User Title
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ireland
My problem, I guess, is that up until now Ainz hasn't been shown being deliberately cruel to people, except for Clementine.

There's a difference between killing and torture or "experimentation". At least to me.
moridin84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 20:17   Link #451
BakaOnna
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
My problem, I guess, is that up until now Ainz hasn't been shown being deliberately cruel to people, except for Clementine.

There's a difference between killing and torture or "experimentation". At least to me.
That's because the anime white-washes Ainz. Remember the Sunlight Stricture from the first few episodes of the first season? He tortured those people and actually killed Nigun "on accident" while doing it. There's also the adventurers he coldly ordered the murder of, the ones that tried to follow him when he was going to fight Shalltear. Or his experiment with using the lizardfolk as undead.

Ainz has tortured and performed "experimentation" on others but because they didn't get a full 2.5 episodes to themselves (and let's be honest, they're not cute), nobody cried outrage. Even that assassin group that got wiped out by Sebas had paragraphs of backstory but no one cared when they were tortured.

Also note that Adventurers are viewed in a better light than Workers (who were basically criminals), since they do legal jobs assigned by the kingdom. That's why none of them mattered to Ainz. To him, they were nothing more than pests blinded by their own greed for money.

And how is defending Ainz mean people are defending themselves? That comment is just ridiculous. Neither Ainz nor anyone needs to justify his actions since it's already been established that he only cares and does things for the benefit of Nazarick. Foresight, unfortunately, hit one of his few berserk buttons (lying to his face about his friends) and that's why he acted cruelly.
BakaOnna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 20:31   Link #452
moridin84
Custom User Title
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakaOnna View Post
That's because the anime white-washes Ainz. Remember the Sunlight Stricture from the first few episodes of the first season? He tortured those people and actually killed Nigun "on accident" while doing it. There's also the adventurers he coldly ordered the murder of, the ones that tried to follow him when he was going to fight Shalltear. Or his experiment with using the lizardfolk as undead.

Ainz has tortured and performed "experimentation" on others but because they didn't get a full 2.5 episodes to themselves (and let's be honest, they're not cute), nobody cried outrage. Even that assassin group that got wiped out by Sebas had paragraphs of backstory but no one cared when they were tortured.

Also note that Adventurers are viewed in a better light than Workers (who were basically criminals), since they do legal jobs assigned by the kingdom. That's why none of them mattered to Ainz. To him, they were nothing more than pests blinded by their own greed for money.
Well, if it's not in the anime then I can't get upset about it.

Quote:
And how is defending Ainz mean people are defending themselves? That comment is just ridiculous. Neither Ainz nor anyone needs to justify his actions since it's already been established that he only cares and does things for the benefit of Nazarick. Foresight, unfortunately, hit one of his few berserk buttons (lying to his face about his friends) and that's why he acted cruelly.
Ainz is a character in a story. Obviously, people reading the story don't need to justify his actions.

People are absolutely doing it in this thread though. For example, you just brought up that they hit one of his berserk buttons as a justification for his actions.
moridin84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 20:40   Link #453
TheForsaken
Winter is coming
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakaOnna View Post
And how is defending Ainz mean people are defending themselves? That comment is just ridiculous.
People generally don't like others criticizing their favorite works / characters.
They feel that it's an attack against themselves.
So they get defensive.
__________________
TheForsaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 21:16   Link #454
Fufufu
Doffy
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
No previews this week?
Fufufu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-07, 22:25   Link #455
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
People generally don't like others criticizing their favorite works / characters.
They feel that it's an attack against themselves.
So they get defensive.
I fail to see how it is being defensive, to state that it makes no sense giving special treatment to a character just because she is a cute female.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-08, 01:23   Link #456
moridin84
Custom User Title
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I fail to see how it is being defensive, to state that it makes no sense giving special treatment to a character just because she is a cute female.
I probably said this to you before but I think you should spend more effort trying to understand the perspectives and arguments of other people.

It is difficult to have a discussion with someone can't understand, or rather misunderstands, things to this degree.
moridin84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-08, 02:52   Link #457
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I will never understand the idea that characters should be given special treatment because of their physical appearance. Now that I did some reading of the novels, I notice a pattern; dozens of characters that only exist in one single chapter, still gets their backstory fleshed out before they die. The anime tend to cut them out to save time, but the novels made it clear that Arche is not some special snowflake. EVERYONE has stories. EVERYONE has families. Even if they are not girls. Even if they are not physically attractive. Tragedy occurs daily in the Overlord universe, and it makes no sense to single out Arche.

And it always bears repeating, that the author deliberately showed the loan sharks lending to Arche's parents as actually reasonable people; it is unusual narratively, but a deliberate choice. They didn't lend them money in order to take the kids later, they likely don't deal in slaves at all. So the only reason the kids were sold as slaves was because the parents choose to sell them for money. The parents are not starving; they are not fighting for survival. And yet they sold their children. I see that as far greater a crime than Arche's death. And yet, people blame Ainz.

it is just easier to blame an undead.

Then again, as Ainz would say, he is aware of his own hypocrisy. As later on he would look at a race of monsters and desire he needs some of them dead, because he wanted to harvest their bodies for valuable parts. Ainz isn't opposed to the Workers in the direct sense, he just believes that if you want to rob someone, then you better not lose. That you can't expect the victor to be merciful.
No one is trying to argue that Arche's parents aren't evil.

But some people are trying to argue that Ainz isn't, and that's something I have a problem with. It's not about killing Arche in particular. Of all the evil things Ainz has done, it's just one of them, and far from the worst.

Also, the evil isn't defending yourself against robbers. It's instigating robbers all to have a flimsy excuse to start a war of conquest, killing and torturing them in the process.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-08, 03:59   Link #458
Fwarlord
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No one is trying to argue that Arche's parents aren't evil.

But some people are trying to argue that Ainz isn't, and that's something I have a problem with. It's not about killing Arche in particular. Of all the evil things Ainz has done, it's just one of them, and far from the worst.

Also, the evil isn't defending yourself against robbers. It's instigating robbers all to have a flimsy excuse to start a war of conquest, killing and torturing them in the process.
Yes, Ainz's actions can be seen as "evil" from the opposition's POV, but, like they said "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter", it's just a matter of persspective. He is just a regular conqueror, like many in our history, those who were usually glorified by historians. Actually, Ainz's intention is even more noble than them, since he doesn't act because of his own greed, but all for the sake of his people. And everything that happened to the robbers weren't just their own fault, but also part of Ainz's greater plan to bring about an utopia with everlasting peace and harmony. In a sense, you can say they sacrificed themselves for the sake of greater good.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic218451_1.gif Lovers for Eternity
Fwarlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-08, 04:03   Link #459
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by moridin84 View Post
I probably said this to you before but I think you should spend more effort trying to understand the perspectives and arguments of other people.

It is difficult to have a discussion with someone can't understand, or rather misunderstands, things to this degree.
Well, as I keep saying as well, nothing Ainz does in-universe is considered unusual other than the extreme levels he was able to push things. He isn't especially evil or even morally repugnant, he merely has more power than anyone else and thus, is able to do MORE of what everyone is already doing.

Basically, there was repeated comments by his enemies that Ainz didn't do anything WRONG. None of them ever fault him or call him evil. They just see him as a threat, but otherwise understands that they would do the same if they could get away with it.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-08, 05:17   Link #460
Rnzlr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
In fact Jircniv is not much better, he just doesn't have that power like Ainz.
Rnzlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.