(L) Re:Creators

[tuckersister]

I'm glad Mamika start to have a backbone now. Megane is a villian, but she is neutral despite her personality.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

I guess we can compare Alice to her weapon of choice: the lance. She's straightforward, honest to a fault and will not bend easily. If someone talks to her, she answers back...naturally, if someone questions her ideals, she'll defend them.
On top of that, she's a knight and clearly following a code of honor that she firmly believes in.

Imo, Magane is the worst type of opponent for her. And I'm not even taking her power into account...

That's the thing, high-strung knight-type characters like her are usually supposed to be decisive regardless of whether they're right or wrong and they normally tune out what their eneimes have to say main based on moral high ground. In anycase I'd rather move on from this.

Originally Posted by xrick

You saying that about this episode after us getting to know Hiroe had to cut a decent amount of dialogue for Magane...

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Souta's action of not saying anything to Selesia (who literally dropped a second after Souta found out the truth) is understandable but also not admirable. Let's hope that he just needs more time to sort things out before confessing to his companions about Altair & Setsuna to prevent bigger disaster(s).

My guess is that the Sota isn't telling anyone because the connection makes him feel gulity. Even if he's not the culprit if Sota was the who drew Altair then he might see himself responsible for this whole mess by association.

[_Ninja_]

Originally Posted by Applehell

My guess is that the Sota isn't telling anyone because the connection makes him feel gulity. Even if he's not the culprit if Sota was the who drew Altair then he might see himself responsible for this whole mess by association.

I hope it's not that simple. It would be one of those frustrating reasons that would needlessly delay things. Because we all know there is no guilt to be had there, no way he could fathom his fictional character would come to life.

It could be that he feels guilty for what happened to Setsuna. The shame of perhaps having contributed to her suicide would understandably make him fear that conversation.

[kari-no-sugata II]

I find it hard to imagine that Souta forgot creating a character design, if that's what he did. Shouldn't he have had some character design notes/files instead of having to search? Or was Setsuna's death so traumatic for him that he deleted everything and blanked out some memories?

[_Ninja_]

Himegimi is probably mostly Setsuna's creation. Perhaps he doesn't remember because he had no investment in her creation other than making a sketch on request. I think Souta's connection to Himegimi is through his relationship with Setsuna more so than being her creator.

[Shadow5YA]

Chances are the reason for Souta's slump is also because of what happened with Setsuna. Their work was probably not well-received, and when Setsuna decided to commit suicide, he has been afraid of failure ever since.

[SeaDoor]

Although I understand many of the complaints about this episode, Souta not immediately explaining what he figured out about the MUP was hard for me to accept especially considering how the stakes have been laid so far. I can't imagine how the writers will work around a single person choosing the sacrifice all of existence instead of informing his colleagues what he knows. Right now, his choice seems more like a writer's contrivance.

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

MUP came to life the same day she was published and Setsuna died.

How do you know that ? Is it in an official source somewhere ? If that is the case, I wonder why they would give away that much information this early. And no, I don't think I will try to confirm/disconfirm it. It seem to be too spoilific to my taste. I hope I was wrong. If it is, that would be quite disappointing.

[Xeiros]

The Mamika and Alice dynamic is great because it cannot possibly work. At least not the way they are right now. Think of it this way. Altair wants them to cause mayhem. Now both are characters that are well equipped to do just that, outside of Gigas Machina perhaps more so than any other creations.

The first key diverging point is how they reacted or didn't to using their powers in this world. When Mamika used her magic to attack Celestia, she was so visibly shaken by the destruction and pain she had caused it pushed her into doing what she does in episode 6. Alice on the other hand has no negative reaction at all to the damage and pain she causes. To her the means justify the potential ends whereas for Mamika they do not.

Going back to the cause mayhem goal. Alice could easily fly around on her horse stabbing people and causing untold death and destruction with her gauntlet. Mamika could do much the same. Fly around and slaughter scores of people and lay waste to the city with magical splash flare. Both are capable of killing hundreds of thousands of people with trillions of yen in damage in mere minutes.

Then again perhaps cause mayhem can be done in a nice non violent manner where no one gets hurt or dies and nothing is destroyed or broken. As if. Both characters have done terrible things in our world, but only one of them seems to actually give a shit about it and realize gee destroying shit, kidnapping people, and being an all around criminal scum isn't a good thing/something to be proud of.

It's especially interesting considering both are supposed to be good people in their stories. What a difference a change of scenery … I mean world makes.

[SPARTAN 119]

Originally Posted by Xeiros

The Mamika and Alice dynamic is great because it cannot possibly work. At least not the way they are right now. Think of it this way. Altair wants them to cause mayhem. Now both are characters that are well equipped to do just that, outside of Gigas Machina perhaps more so than any other creations.

The first key diverging point is how they reacted or didn't to using their powers in this world. When Mamika used her magic to attack Celestia, she was so visibly shaken by the destruction and pain she had caused it pushed her into doing what she does in episode 6. Alice on the other hand has no negative reaction at all to the damage and pain she causes. To her the means justify the potential ends whereas for Mamika they do not.

Going back to the cause mayhem goal. Alice could easily fly around on her horse stabbing people and causing untold death and destruction with her gauntlet. Mamika could do much the same. Fly around and slaughter scores of people and lay waste to the city with magical splash flare. Both are capable of killing hundreds of thousands of people with trillions of yen in damage in mere minutes.

Then again perhaps cause mayhem can be done in a nice non violent manner where no one gets hurt or dies and nothing is destroyed or broken. As if. Both characters have done terrible things in our world, but only one of them seems to actually give a shit about it and realize gee destroying shit, kidnapping people, and being an all around criminal scum isn't a good thing/something to be proud of.

It's especially interesting considering both are supposed to be good people in their stories. What a difference a change of scenery … I mean world makes.

Another possible reason why Alice has not gone on a massive rampage, short of perhaps that Mamika might stop her, is that we still do not know that she is "immune" to real-world weapons. She might be able to shrug off a few bullets, but is she capable of repelling the entire JSDF and US Forces Japan if they really got serious- i.e. sustained aerial and artillery bombardment? Meteora seems to think our weapons will work on the Creations. On the note of Meteora, you'd think the JSDF would give her authorization to fire the weapons if she encounters a hostile creation.

That being said, if she simply had to cause enough mayhem, and that the stability of reality would fail if too many people figured out the existence of the creations, than perhaps Alice might be able to succeed even if she eventually was killed- not to mention the fact that calling down something like an artillery or air strike in the middle of Tokyo would only cause further casualties. It would be pretty hard to cover up a magical knight going on a rampage, only to end with either a magical duel or her being Macross Missile Massacred or More Dakka!!!-ed out of existence by the JSDF, especially considering someone would recognize her.

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

I guess we can compare Alice to her weapon of choice: the lance. She's straightforward, honest to a fault and will not bend easily. If someone talks to her, she answers back...naturally, if someone questions her ideals, she'll defend them.
On top of that, she's a knight and clearly following a code of honor that she firmly believes in.

Imo, Magane is the worst type of opponent for her. And I'm not even taking her power into account...

Magane seems dangerous enough to justify an "eliminate on sight" order to be given to all friendly Creations and JSDF personnel, however, like all of them, she is not without her weaknesses. Specifically, her power seems to require someone to speak to her and believe her words to be a lie in order to activate it. Add that to the fact that she may not have any other extraordinary powers- she cannot fly IIRC, she may be one of the easier ones to deal with using real-world weapons, let along the powers of some of the other Creations. My first attempt if I were planning to the response would be to send a sniper after her- a high-powered rifle has the range to engage her at a distance where she would likely not see the sniper, and the bullet would travel fast enough that she would be dead before it she heard the gunshot, assuming the sniper didn't miss, and she indeed does have no other powers.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Hmm....

How do you know that ? Is it in an official source somewhere ? If that is the case, I wonder why they would give away that much information this early. And no, I don't think I will try to confirm/disconfirm it. It seem to be too spoilific to my taste. I hope I was wrong. If it is, that would be quite disappointing.

It is called paying attention to details in the show.

Images

Episode 1 and Episode 5 Timeline

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[Trung-t-rung]

I feel that there is a certain level of meta irony here.

Souta choosing to not telling the others about Altair is a rather fitting writing decision because that's the way a real person would do. Wait before doing something. Imagine suddenly finding out that you may have some sort of relations to a terrorist, even if you are innocent, you would still think twice before decide to alert the authority. Combining that with the Asian mentality of not wanting to stand out and you can see why Souta didn't just tell Selestia right away.

Honestly, it's the same with people screaming for more action several episodes before as two characters already expressed their distaste for having to fight just for the entertainment of others.

[Cosmic Eagle]

So the sukeban actually killed someone.....that's the first time the creations actually killed a native person right? Won't be surprised if it has some backlash on their own world also as a result...

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

I feel that there is a certain level of meta irony here.

Souta choosing to not telling the others about Altair is a rather fitting writing decision because that's the way a real person would do. Wait before doing something. Imagine suddenly finding out that you may have some sort of relations to a terrorist, even if you are innocent, you would still think twice before decide to alert the authority. Combining that with the Asian mentality of not wanting to stand out and you can see why Souta didn't just tell Selestia right away.

Honestly, it's the same with people screaming for more action several episodes before as two characters already expressed their distaste for having to fight just for the entertainment of others.

while i can understand the "culture side" don't make sound like "every person could do the same in the world" while "some peoples" could prefer to shut others not, i can say if was myself i could not have wasted time and told since i'm aware of i'm being innocent and the person in question is already dead, and the fact which they are trying to "destroy the world" could be much more important than just a "selfish stupid action if was just for "fear" or something like that, not everyone react in the same way even in japan probably some less "scared peoples" could actually said and not hidden specially if they knew they are at that level of danger.

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

It is called paying attention to details in the show.

Images

Episode 1 and Episode 5 Timeline

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Ah OK. Nice observation there.

[DmonHiro]

Just thought of something. The most powerful member of both sides are a pain in the ass for their respective side.

Hime's most powerful member is Mamika. She doesn't want to fight for you.
Souta's most powerful member is Yuya. He doesn't care to fight for you.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by DmonHiro

Just thought of something. The most powerful member of both sides are a pain in the ass for their respective side.

Hime's most powerful member is Mamika. She doesn't want to fight for you.
Souta's most powerful member is Yuya. He doesn't care to fight for you.

I'd say it's questionable if those two are the most powerful characters of their respective, but I really, really don't want to start a power measuring contest. Let's just say that everyone of them have situations where their powers are clearly more powerful than the others. Except Selesia, it seems, because she lost her mech.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by DmonHiro

Just thought of something. The most powerful member of both sides are a pain in the ass for their respective side.

Hime's most powerful member is Mamika. She doesn't want to fight for you.
Souta's most powerful member is Yuya. He doesn't care to fight for you.

Arguably Rui is their most powerful member with a mech but that is the Godzilla threshold they do not want to cross.

Rui just needs a good reason to get involved. Like say woo and protect a pretty pink haired magical girl younger than him.

[Xeiros]

You know how in episode 5, the government went after the good guys and being “good” they went along more or less quietly? Do yo think the “bad guys” in the same situation would have just given up too? Oh no. They would fight back and cause untold death and destruction. If the Altair team started trying to cause mayhem as planned, sooner or later they'd attract the attention of the police/special force/military what have you. You think Alice is going to just give up and do whatever they want and not fight back? Of course not. Do you think Mamika is going to start willingly blasting innocent people simply because they're trying to stop her and her buddies from well doing a lot of very bad no good immoral things? Even she would realize they're the bad guys in that scenario.

Here's the real crux of the issue. The good guys as far as those on team government are laughably outmatched. They lack the ability to actually stop them. Those that might actually be able to, specifically Rui with his Gigas Machina, would then be playing right into Altair's goal of widespread mayhem and chaos. Hell had it not been for Mamika's face turn, Meteora would be dead and Blitz would certainly have turned his attention to Celestia who was already struggling against Alice. The two of them together would have easily killed her too. Alice would then have gone back to her initial goal of killing Makagmi if she hadn't left by this point.

I'm sure you've noticed how not once during any of the fights Celestia has been in was she ever actually winning. Altair? Couldn't do a thing to her. Mamika? Blasted out of the sky and would have died had it not be for Yuuya. Alice? Currently getting her ass kicked without dealing a single damaging blow. At best she's ineffectual and at worst she jobs. Never once has she actually won a fight. With Meteora being as offensively worthless as she is, they did a great job of setting up for future revisions. So we pretty much already knew full well when they agreed to help the government out, just how useless most of them would be at actually preventing attempted mayhem.

As for human weapons working on these creations. Altair is a perfect example. Go back and watch the missile scene in episode one. Notice how they did absolutely nothing? Not so much as a single scratch. She no sold Red's mecha like it was nothing. Remember that these super human creations with super powers and abilities are currently struggling to handle others capable of similar things. What makes you think regular people have any chance? As you pointed out, stopping creations from causing mayhem simply results in mayhem anyway possibly more than what they could have accomplished on their own.

[RDNexus]

Unless some kind of neutral-sided OP entity entered the fray only to calm the beasts without as much as a blast.
BRING CHUCK NORRIS!!!