Code Geass Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[JediNight]

Lelouch has shown a penchant for sitting back in relative safety while he orders everyone else to do things. And he's shown that he doesn't really care about the Japanese resistance that they were all previously a part of by killing "friend and foe" in that landslide, etc.

On the flipside of that, you have someone like Cornelia who not only commands her troops, but puts herself on the line in the actual combat -- this is something Lelouch never does. Sure he's in a Knightmare, but in reality thats just armor around him, and he doesn't really do much with it. You saw how the other Knights on foot were fighting way more dangerously and getting hurt.

He really is only using them as pawns so far -- its in his best interests to not get his core team wiped out is all

[c^2]

Originally Posted by JediNight

Lelouch has shown a penchant for sitting back in relative safety while he orders everyone else to do things. And he's shown that he doesn't really care about the Japanese resistance that they were all previously a part of by killing "friend and foe" in that landslide, etc.

Given the situation, that was probably the best option, or at least the only option that would have allowed them a hope of victory. Without a miracle, the JLF would have suffered a crushing and final defeat. Still, even if this worked out for the best, it is not the kind of decision I would want to make.

Another less bloody option would have been to provide the JLF with advanced warning so that they could prepare or evacuate. Unfortunately, there is no telling how such a warning would be taken, and cooperation may have been impossible. There is a lot of uncertainty with this option, and any number of reasons could have made it unworkable.

While Lelouch may treat his followers like pawns, I do not think he would sacrifice them without good cause. This is war after all, and you can't put a nice face on it, no matter how hard you try.

As far as comparisons with Cornelia, he has risked his life several times already, right alongside the others. While Cornelia is an experienced pilot though, Lelouch is not, so we can hardly expect him to lead the battle in the same way. Even so, he does the next best thing, and is always right behind Karen, and even helped them escape in this last episode.

Lastly, while Cornelia has rightfully earned some praise, people should remember her earlier tactics. In particular, continuing Clovis' atrocities, just to lure out Zero. If Euphemia were not among the hostages, she would have just killed them all. She is a shining example of what is wrong with the empire.

[kira11111]

Originally Posted by JediNight

Lelouch has shown a penchant for sitting back in relative safety while he orders everyone else to do things. And he's shown that he doesn't really care about the Japanese resistance that they were all previously a part of by killing "friend and foe" in that landslide, etc.

On the flipside of that, you have someone like Cornelia who not only commands her troops, but puts herself on the line in the actual combat -- this is something Lelouch never does. Sure he's in a Knightmare, but in reality thats just armor around him, and he doesn't really do much with it. You saw how the other Knights on foot were fighting way more dangerously and getting hurt.

He really is only using them as pawns so far -- its in his best interests to not get his core team wiped out is all

Zero doesn't sit back. Zero's in the middle of the battlefield, his MS screams "I'm Zero, please shoot me". You obviously haven't watched Code Geass.

Zero does use his Knights as pawns, so what? Cornelia uses her military the exact same way. Of course pawns will die, it's a battle. Any military commander would use his troops in a similar fashion.

Also the Resistance soldiers who died in the landslide were not Zero's allies. Even if they were, they would've lost there lives to the horde of Sutherland's. Zero basically took that into account and went ahead with the plan. The landslide was his key to victory.

Honestly, Ougi and Kallen are naive if they think that battle is not a game. Of course it's a game!!! The winner lives, the looser dies.

[Majek]

The only time Zero was in the middle of the battlefield was when he went to spring a trap for Cornelia. Other than that he only tells his pawns to fight.

Cornelia doesn't use her troops as pawns, they follow her willingly because she inspires them by leading the battles from the fronlines by actively fighting . And don't simplify things by saysin everyone does it like Zero does.

The victory was only in the eyes of Bk and the Resistance. Zero didn't achive any vicotry since his primary goal was Cornelia.

Battle is not a game, it never was in never will be.

[Deathkillz]

lulu is only good as the supreme commander so obviously going in head first into a battle wont suit his style ~ together with his just above average skills at using a KNF then it makes it even worse when cornelia has the potential to stab you to death as any given time ~

cornelia on the other hand is less of a tactician and more of a fighter ~ she knows how good her skills are and more often than not wont need a tactic as she can single handedly defeat a whole army...thats why when lulu caused that land slide it kinda shook things up as cornelia didnt have a backup plan for what if situations (just like lulu) cause she thought she had it all in the bag ~

battle? well the war isnt onver until the heads are killed...so as the old saying goes ~
"you may have won the battle but have still lost the war"

[c^2]

Originally Posted by Majek

The only time Zero was in the middle of the battlefield was when he went to spring a trap for Cornelia. Other than that he only tells his pawns to fight.

On every "battlefield" so far, Zero has risked his life. Just so you know though, the primary responsibility of a commander is to command, and that is what Zero does. In the last episode though, he was just as involved as any of the other "pawns."

Cornelia doesn't use her troops as pawns, they follow her willingly because she inspires them by leading the battles from the fronlines by actively fighting . And don't simplify things by saysin everyone does it like Zero does.

It is funny you say that right after describing the trap for Zero; Cornelia most certainly used her people as pawns in that setup, and many of them died for it.

Zero inspires his followers in a different way. Time after time, they are able to achieve what should be impossible. He has brought them hope, where formerly there was only despair. Some of them are rightfully terrified of a direct confrontation, but they are all following him of their own will.

The victory was only in the eyes of Bk and the Resistance. Zero didn't achive any vicotry since his primary goal was Cornelia.

Cornelia acknowledged it as her defeat. While Zero didn't get the information he was hoping for, it was far from a loss for him; one of the purposes was to show the people in Kyoto that they were worthy of support. Seeing as the BK almost single-handedly crushed a vastly superior force, they shouldn't be disappointed.

Any way you look at it, the BK have saved the JLF from certain destruction, and in no way can that be considered a loss.

Battle is not a game, it never was in never will be.

Battle is what you make of it, and it can certainly be likened to a game.

[Majek]

Where did i says he doesn't command his troops or risk his life? I only disagreed with kira11111 that he's in the middle of the battlefield all the time .


He always puts them in impossible situations and forces them to rely solely on him without giving them a real choice. That will backfire sooner or later.

I never said it was a loss, i said it wasn't a victory for Zero personally not his BK league/order or Resistance cause they did win just like you say.

Games have rules, battles don't.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by Majek

He always puts them in impossible situations and forces them to rely solely on him without giving them a real choice. That will backfire sooner or later.

He's only done that once. The rest of the time they know what they're doing, going in to free Suzaku, going to meet Cornelia and despite the fact they know that they're likely to die, they still followed him. This new episode's pretty much the only one where he really forces them to rely on him. But like he said, a messiah needs a miracle and this is supposed to be his.

[Owaranai Destiny]

You know what follows when the Commander dies?

That's right; total chaos for the OoBK without a leader, yet a Commander has to be there to inspire, to lead, so Zero did quite well in that aspect.

IMO, his encounter with Cornelia's forces on purpose wasn't just a miracle; it was a huge gamble, one that only the most confident can pull off. The fact that Lelouch hasn't entirely been ready for Lancelot's appearance tells us one thing: He's not infallible, despite the premonition that the OoBK will be getting a formidable line-up of soldiers and allies (e.g. Toudou, Diethard) and despite his power of GEASS. Likewise, I'm glad Suzaku is looking less the part of a Kira Yamato MK II from GSD. He isn't invincible either, having to fight hard against Guren Nishiki.

[JediNight]

Toudou was looking good there in his Knightmare .... extremely manueverable, but kinda lacks oomf with only that chainsword as a weapon. His Knightmare looks pretty silly though -- he pilots Mecha Laharl! ;D

[Village Idiot]

Actually, if you think about it, the big reason why Lelouch didn't fight in the front lines in the past is because in each situation, he was using a stolen Knightmare that was still transmitting a friendly signature, so he could tap into the Britannian's communications/positions.

Had he went ahead and fought as well, they would have immediately known that the Knightmare was captured and cut off transmissions to Lelouch's Knightmare.

Without the huge advantage of practically a map hack, the Resistence wouldn't have stood a chance in the fight.

[Seska]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Actually, if you think about it, the big reason why Lelouch didn't fight in the front lines in the past is because in each situation, he was using a stolen Knightmare that was still transmitting a friendly signature, so he could tap into the Britannian's communications/positions.

Had he went ahead and fought as well, they would have immediately known that the Knightmare was captured and cut off transmissions to Lelouch's Knightmare.

Without the huge advantage of practically a map hack, the Resistence wouldn't have stood a chance in the fight.

I agree. Commanders on the fields, need their eyes to taken action. Attack or counter attack. Where is the Enemy, how strong etc... Nobody wants fight a unseen enemy... while you think, there are Scouts out there? to be the eyes and ears for the commanders...

Some wellknown force , use their Space scouts... yes, satelites, of course. Or drones...

Mfg,
Seska

[Village Idiot]

The thing you have to remember, is that Lelouch is not like 99.9% of the main protagonist in a mecha series.

He's not a gifted/ace pilot whom is given a next generation prototype mecha that can single handedly decimate the opposing forces.

[Seska]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

The thing you have to remember, is that Lelouch is not like 99.9% of the main protagonist in a mecha series.

He's not a gifted/ace pilot whom is given a next generation prototype mecha that can single handedly decimate the opposing forces.

After saw Episode 11 and CCs & Lelouch mind accident. Im not sure anymore about that... Lets see, what Sunrise has for us now...

Mfg,
Seska

[guiltygearxt]

episode 11 is perfect

interestingly 4 lulu 2 show some emotion and i sense little harem in it haha

[SinsI]

some inconsistency in this episode

Spoiler:

In the first moments of Crimson Lotus MKII vs Lancelot, Suzaku kicks Karen, but she catches that slider boot (or whatever it is called) of his and blows it to pieces with her Claw.
So no way could he later catch Zero's undamaged knightmare.

[JediNight]

I bet he just jumped all the way there by propelling himself in the air with that harpoon shot thing, right? (Which is so utterly impossible its laughable -- how can you propel a multi-ton mecha into the air by firing a harpoon rope into the ground ... ITS A ROPE NOT A POLE ...)

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by SinsI

some inconsistency in this episode

Spoiler:

In the first moments of Crimson Lotus MKII vs Lancelot, Suzaku kicks Karen, but she catches that slider boot (or whatever it is called) of his and blows it to pieces with her Claw.
So no way could he later catch Zero's undamaged knightmare.

Karen takes out the front part of Lancelot's slider-boot, which is launchable as a projectile. (if you notice later on, Suzaku fires the other boot's part at Karen).

The slider is undamaged.

[SinsI]

No, it is. If you look closer at the Zero capture scene, you'll see that Suzaku is riding on only one slider. The problem is, he has like 50% of the power and a lot less balance, so on a non-flat terrain it shouldn't be a problem to ran away from him.

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by SinsI

No, it is. If you look closer at the Zero capture scene, you'll see that Suzaku is riding on only one slider. The problem is, he has like 50% of the power and a lot less balance, so on a non-flat terrain it shouldn't be a problem to ran away from him.

*sigh*

12:06: Crimson Lotus Mk-II grabs onto Lancelot's front boot armor

12:08: Lancelot detatches front boot armor. Crimson Lotus Mk-II destroys it. The slider-part is undamaged

12:16: Another example

12:26 Lancelot launches its other leg's boot armor

13:24 After CL-2 fell: Both sliders are clearly in place

13:47 During Zero Chase, left foot slider still in place

13:48 During Zero chase, right foot slider still there