Macross Plus OVA/Movie Discussion

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Alto described his distaste for Brera as "hate."

It still isn't to the extent of the hatred Isamu held for Guld, mostly because Brera never ruined Alto's life, and they don't know each other.

I think I was in more reference to the "Myung holds feelings for Isamu" bit. But yes, I had that feeling when Guld touched her shoulders and she looked frightened.

There are other moments like this one, but you have to pay attention to catch them. Isamu complains about Guld's memory problem quite a few times.

Well that doesn't excuse them from not telling him he was the one at fault. Though I agree that unless Myung was the one to tell him, he wouldn't trust ISAMU's words.

It was a mental disorder that he had to take pills to repress. Both of them knew this.

Spoiler for off topic:

I think you're losing sight that up until the END of the series, Ranka and Brera did not know they were siblings, nor did Alto. So, your argument there is mute. Brera thinks that Alto has feelings for her and makes her suffer cause he won't state them, and so, he becomes like Michael for Ranka. After all, each person has to have a side, no? But Alto thinks Ranka sees him romantically, hence his anger towards Brera especially in the classroom. After all, if Brera is her bodyguard, as a soldier, Alto should stand down and not fly off the handle (or act like Isamu in OVA 1).

No I think you're the one whose delusional by trying to compare the two. First of all it was never stated that what Alto felt towards Brera had anything to do with jealously, nor was it ever stated that Alto thought Ranka was in love with Brera, or even bothered by the fact that Ranka may have thought of Brera romantically. In fact Alto was just fine with ignoring Ranka's feelings for him (even when he was told by other characters that she liked him), and if a guy likes a girl he doesn't ignore the fact that she likes him back, so that alone destroys your argument. Bottom line is this never happened or was even hinted as happening so your wrong once again.

I laughed at this, honestly.

When Brera showed up, he actually SAVED not only Ranka but in the very first episode he appears as a pilot, he saves Alto at the last second and introduces himself as a pilot of Galaxy to help Frontier. Afterwards, he is helpful to everyone EXCEPT Alto. It is clear that he's been observing Alto closely for months, as he shows interest in Ranka. So, he is quite aware of Ranka's feelings towards Alto probably when he asks her in Ep19.

Umm... is your memory bad or do you just alter it to your own shipping views? The first time that Alto comes across Brera he interferes with his training session with Klan Klan and the second time he comes across Brera he tries to kill Alto, and the other SMS members and this was before Ranka came into the equation.

The fact remains that your point makes no sense until Ep24 when Brera outwardly attacks his comrades. As in Ep14 through 21, he WAS a good pilot working for Frontier and defended all pilots. He understood Ranka too.

No the fact remains Brera was antagonistic to Alto even before Ranka came into the equation so your comparison fails.

First off, there WAS something between Alto and Ranka. As small as you don't seem to see it, he DOES see something in Ranka. After all, why chase after her in worry in Ep21? Why look so deathly (and I mean DEATHLY) shocked when she admits love to him and tells him goodbye? Alto obviously held feelings for her but didn't notice them until he no longer wanted a relationship with her. If anything, he notices he loved her but was too blind to see it. You know, not all relationships are easily seen, not all feelings are easily interpreted, especially if you are dense; and Alto applies to that. Which is why he hates that Michael always has to point things out to him.

Oh so you can't look for your friends if they've shown obvious signs of depression, unless you're in love with them now? That's news to me. He wasn't deathly shocked when she said that she loved him either, he already knew that and I think he was more worried about the Vajra behind her which bore a resemblance to the same vajra that murdered his best friend in cold blood. Again you're interpretation forgets the obvious details of the actual scene for your own Ranka centered shipper goggles.

To your second comment: I take offense to that, honestly. I observe more than you think. Just because I don't watch it 24/7 doesn't give you the right to criticize. Also, I didn't WATCH it while it was airing on TV. And another think, I have ADD, so sometimes I might not even pay attention to it (not on purpose, I swear). So your comment is actually very rude and unneeded.

Guess what, neither do I. I've only watched MF twice, both times without any shipper goggles. Though even with ADD and I've know people who watch MF and have ADD and none of them, have such a skewed view like you do. The problem is that the in almost all of the arguments you make you make up facts and events that never happened in the series proper. Even if you weren't able to catch a lot of the information in series, that still doesn't excuse your habit of making things up, to suit your shipper goggles.

Ranka was in the equation since Brera met her in Ep8. Ranka was in the equation since Alto met her in Ep1. Both are fighting to show they can protect Ranka better. And just WHY is it that Brera telling Alto he is unworthy of protecting Ranka piss him off? Brera knows that is Alto's weak spot. After all, why not say that about Sheryl? If Brera thought Alto loved the other girl, why not throw his failure to save her in any situation (he does fail a few times) instead? No, he throws Ranka in his face. And Alto's reaction is pure anger.

No she wasn't you know why? Because Alto had no idea that they knew each other, until much later on. That's doesn't put her into the equation, considering that the only thing that Brera felt was that he had to somehow protect Ranka, there was nothing romantic about it. So your comparison still fails.

I would. After all, some relationships build over distance. Alto didn't really not make an effort, he just understood her career came first. As you all stated, he doesn't want her to lose that. Spending time with him might cause trouble with her career, as dates would have to be scheduled and dropped at the last second. He puts her career first.

Umm... When was Alto ever shown to have thought of Ranka like that? When was this even implied? the answer to both those questions is never. This was never implied never and never stated and so therefore fails. You're making things up again.

Yes, they all met at the same time. Yes, it was because of Sheryl holding her concert there that Ranka met Alto. But it was because Ranka inspired Alto to do his corkscrew that he ran into Sheryl and they became more intimate whilst Alto kept looking for her earring. It was Ranka who made Alto and Sheryl become closer together

.

Umm... No, it wasn't Ranka who inspired Alto to do the corkscrew. When was that ever stated, or even implied for that matter? It wasn't so this also fails, that's strike two. Alto did the corkscrew to deliberately because he was being cocky, and Sheryl and Michael told him he couldn't do the stunt, because he was an amateur, and he wanted to prove them wrong. In this case it would be correct to say that it was Luca who gave Alto the idea to do the stunt anyway. So no, Ranka had nothing to do with that, she was not a factor.

The only reason Alto and Ranka don't fall in love is because Kawamori just didn't want to go in that direction. I'm sure he was afraid of what the fans might think. I can still remember when Clannad came out and Nagisa was with Tomoyo (is it "ya"? Ugh, I hate it that they have similar names!). The crowd that was there for that was NOT pleased until the After Story came out and he chose to be with Tomoya. It's because Nagisa was so young that she looked like his daughter, same with Ranka. Most of the time, authors fear their audiences' replies. After all, if the audience doesn't back you up, then you're going to get into trouble with the higher ups.

You do realize that MF was made years before it aired right? and the CLANNAD was based on a visual novel, that is also a dating sim where the main Tomoya could end up with any of the girls? Did you also know that said game was also made long before the series aired on tv, and that Nagisa was the main storyline anyway? Also Nagisa is older than Tomoya, and you're making that up no one thought that Nagisa was Tomoya's daughter, though they did have one together. The girl who looked young enough to be Tomoya's little sister was Fuka, and she was never an option. That comparison fails. Your conspiracy theories are also false. That's strike three.

I think he WOULD have fallen more in love with her. After all, he joins the S.M.S. for her. He helps her along with her career (the movie). He does a lot of things that he used to hate or never think he could do, just for her. It's obvious that Alto does care a LOT about her, after all, she gets a LOT more attention from him than say Nanase - whom is his friend. So a romantic relationship might have built between them. After all, Nanase is his friend, Klan is his friend, but only Ranka gets the most attention out of him in the so-called "friend" department. So his feelings for her are obviously stronger more towards romantic even if Sheryl won his heart in the end.

The movies say differently. Even after knowing a more mature and much more womanly Ranka for so long, Alto still friend-zoned her. Also Nanase paid Ranka the most attention in the series than anyone else, the reason why Ranka got any attention was because he promised her brother he'd protect her. Plus he never shown any attention in her romantically. Denial is unhealthy.

Once again, a mute subject. Read above.

Considering, the comparison fails, it is a moot topic.

Yes, I did notice that though, the scene at least. Except Guld was a male and Ranka is a female. I think that effect SOME of their reactions. Plus, Ranka had been so beaten down in the emotional department. After Ep16 and 17, she was beginning to question why they were fighting and she hated being used as a tool. And after her test went okay, that's what EVERYONE, even Sheryl and her brother, called her - a tool. She was more upset with being used like a tool by people who "claimed" to love and care for her (even if not romantically) than JUST the heartbreak.

The situation, again, was different.

One you're making things up. Sheryl and the others never once called Ranka a tool. All they said was that Ranka should behave professionally and do her job (which she volunteered for), which was what everyone else was doing, except Ranka. Plus if you really want to go there Alto can also be counted amongst the people who wanted Ranka to just get it together and sing. So if you want to use this analogy you are also effectively saying that Alto doesn't care about Ranka.

I didn't say he beat Brera. I was saying that they never fought head-to-head until Ep24. At least not seriously. But at that time, Alto didn't want to fight him (or at least that was the impression I got off Alto trying to talk Brera out of their "trespassing" crap).

He didn't need to his attitude said it all.

Like I said, it could be the difference in the gender. Women are obviously more prone to be understanding and calm unlike men. Why do you think women are more level headed in stressful situations regarding work whilst men tend to fly off the handle? Ranka is much more understanding than Guld could ever be. She was also calmer. When it came to fighting against her best friend for Alto's heart, she did so fairly and accepted her defeat. Guld did not do this and flew off the handle.

I don't know which Ranka you're talking about here but I'll assume its tv series Ranka. TV series Ranka was never shown to be much of an understanding person, nor was she shown to have the capacity to accept rejection. She simply wasn't that mature.

You're also not helping with the impression that you can't talk about anything in Macross without somehow putting Ranka in the equation even when there is no comparison.

[MichiNekoChan]

oh trainwrecks, why can't I ever stop watching them?

Anywho, all of this is making me interested in watching other Macross series. (I've only seen Frontier)

Now how to get my hands on it is a different question all together.... TO THE INTERNET!

PS - continue spoilerifying. I don't mind it. (it actually makes me want to watch things more)

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Are you sure it's really correct to say that Zentraedi are "naturally aggressive"? Most of the ones living aboard the Frontier seemed to have no problem keeping their tempers in check. Hell, Nene is a shrinking violet (which makes me wonder why the heck she's part of a military units, but that's another issue).

Short answer, yes.

But, you need a reason to be angry. The Zentran denizens of Frontier had little to no reason to be aggressive. Then again, these Zentrans are probably what you call domesticated Zentrans.

However, as indicated in Frontier, there are Zentrans who prefer their old lifestyle, a soldier's life in battle fleets, as opposed to colonial fleets.

During Space War I, the Zentradi were created not only to be giants, but had their DNA reconfigured in macro form to be more aggressive, and prone to combat. When micloned, changes to their DNA were retracted, but this process was imperfect, thus resulting in a variety of changes depending on the individual.

In the case of Guld, it probably resulted in 0 changes.

- Tak

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

PS - continue spoilerifying. I don't mind it. (it actually makes me want to watch things more)

You should. Macross Plus is one of the better Macross stories out there in my opinion.

It also has a stellar soundtrack. And for me, before there was Aimo, there was Voices. Voices > Aimo. Always.

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by kujoe

You should. Macross Plus is one of the better Macross stories out there in my opinion.

It also has a stellar soundtrack. And for me, before there was Aimo, there was Voices. Voices > Aimo. Always.

Agreed.

It's also one of the best animation they'd ever pulled out besides Do You Remember Love. It's the first Macross movie where I felt they gave any effort in both movie and series, as Frontier is the newest and yet it doesn't look as amazing as Escaflowne (the movie) or Sousei no Aquarion (the series + movie). Only in the first movie of Frontier does it seem to show near the end more improvement on fighting scenes.

I'm a fan of Megumi Nakajima, but I agree. Voices is defiantly more amazing than Aimo.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I'm a fan of Megumi Nakajima,

I met her in person, and I STILL cannot believe she is older than May'n...

- Tak

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Tak

I met her in person, and I STILL cannot believe she is older than May'n...

- Tak

If I met you in person, you wouldn't believe I'm 19. I've gotten compliments that I look like I'm 14. I feel a lot like Ranka right now: misread.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I feel a lot like Ranka right now: misread.

I really don't know why you want to compare yourself to Ranka... but one thing I am sure, she is not misread.

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Tak

I really don't know why you want to compare yourself to Ranka... but one thing I am sure, she is not misread.

- Tak

I think after three years of discussion we got a pretty good handle on her personality, yeah.

[raile]

Ahh, Voices~
So enchanting. I'd listen to it all day than all the versions of Aimo combined.

[kujoe]

There were a few times when I heard Voices being played in a Japanese restaurant along with other non-OST anime songs. I had to make sure I was hearing it correctly at first.

Did Voices become mainstream enough in Japan or something? Well, if that's not the case, I would have to commend whoever made their mix CD.

[Westlo]

Ah Voices.... the song Aimo wishes it was.

And what has become of this thread... slandering the good of Macross+ with Ranka and Brera *throws up*

Also Movie > OVAs... and Idol Talk is the bomb.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Also Movie > OVAs... and Idol Talk is the bomb.

Opening space battle from the OVA > pretty much anything added to the movie version...even Lucy's butt.

But yes...Idol Talk is indeed the bomb.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Opening space battle from the OVA > pretty much anything added to the movie version...even Lucy's butt.

Which puzzles me up to this day as to why the opening battle was never included... would have made more sense to the movie, really.

- Tak

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Tak

Which puzzles me up to this day as to why the opening battle was never included... would have made more sense to the movie, really.

- Tak

Well...I'm not sure if this is the real reason or not (and you may already know this), but the movie was written before the OVA, so they wrote the other scenes later...and maybe just never revised the movie script...

[BetoJR]

And here I always thought the movie version was the later one...

[Tak]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

And here I always thought the movie version was the later one...

Nah, the four OVA were originally intended as a movie. The decision to split it into 4 occurred later.

- Tak

[BetoJR]

Goes to show you how much I know. I used to think the movie was the later product, since it did boast of added scenes, and all that jazz - as I recall. I might be misremembering it, tho.

[kujoe]

If I'm not mistaken, Macross Plus was originally written as one movie, but it later turned out to be a 4 episode OVA miniseries. In terms of release however, the OVAs were released first.

It was later remade and compressed into movie length later on, as was originally intended, albeit with some new scenes.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

And here I always thought the movie version was the later one...

It's a weird situation...they planned it as a movie first, but the higher-ups decided that it would be better to release an OVA first, to build an audience for the movie. So yeah, as Tak said, the movie was written first, but the OVA series came out before it.

The impression I get (I haven't found any proof yet, alas) is that the "new" scenes in the movie were there originally, and thus are actually "old" scenes. I don't think those scenes were actually animated until after the OVA was completed, though.