[MANGA] Bleach - 106 "Turn back the Pendulum III "

[wirajati]

Aizen said "a person of the power of two average captain can activates hougyoku". so, I like to see the power of urahara (former taicho) and mayuri (current taicho) who share some degree of weirdness/craziness/motive to create hougyoku. so two taicho's power to create and two taicho power to activate...one need not be admitted as taicho to have the power of a taicho (ichigo for instance), so mayuri at 110 years ago coul hv attain taicho level but since he is crazy, off he go to maggot. but none of us is Kubo...

[Zek]

Originally Posted by ForgedGlory

When the quincy kills a hollow, the soul doesn't revert to normal and re enters the cycle of life, it just disappears, therefore no new lives are born. The world in bleach revolves around reincarnation. And that cycle is broken when a hollow is destroyed by a quincy.

The same thing happens when a hollow eats a human soul(probably), and there hasn't been any huge catastrophe after all these years. Hell, if every single Hollow were simply killed the difference would be more than made up for by the souls that don't get eaten as a result. I think this was a really flawed concept and Kubo basically dropped the whole issue of Hollow purification/death after telling Ishida's backstory. We certainly haven't seen any Espada get redeemed by a soul slayer.

[HayashiTakara]

You only have to kill the Hollow with the Zanpaktou, their soul gets reborn in SS afterwards.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

It's clear that Mayuri and Urahara have met before. I wonder what their past history is? Also Urahara's comment to that loon who attacked him........"after all I've done for you, you forget me." I wonder what his career as a former jailer included? Hopefully, not experimentation on prisoners.......that should be something only the likes of Mayuri would do.

I was thinking Urahara was put in charge of the Maggot's nest or that he was involved with the way the facility was run. When Soi Fon talked to Yoruichi about it, telling her he must have some kind of idea, I get the sense that it wasn't the first time Urahara went to the maggot's nest. Heck, it could even be the 100th time he goes in there for all we know. My point is that he appears to be quite familiar with them.

Also consider the way he describes his task. He was put in charge of capturing "dangerous criminals" so in all likelyhood, he also had the task of sending these people to the nest. So I'm thinking Urahara was pretty much in charge of the Maggot's nest from all its aspects. This would explain why he's familiar with the crazy Shinigami and most of all, Mayuri.

Originally Posted by amirali1985

Anyone read 'the Final Joke"? The scenario you mention reminds me of how Joker threw the whole of Arkham asylum into chaos by organizing a prison revolt. In fact, now that I think of it.........the whole chapter gave me Batman vibes. Defeating that looney unarmed.......the scene in a dark room underground, where Batman comes to speak to a dangerous criminal.

Nice one. It is pretty similar now you mention it, except that it seems Urahara and Mayuri get along pretty well considering how friendly he is with him, what with his proposition and everything. I could go so far as to say this is something the two of them have been planning out for a while.

Originally Posted by amirali1985

You know, if they throw "non-conformists" in there as Urahara said.........then it's much more likely that people of high power/skill end up there, rather than the typical weak shinigami. In fact, even leaving Aizen aside...........that's probably a very good reason for Urahara to put on that meek demeanour of his. Someone as eccentric and into dangerous reasearch as him can't be too open about it.

They might be powerful, but I doubt it's anything compared to Mayuri. If he's locked up in solitude, there's got to be a reason for it, that being he's way more powerful than anyone else inside the facility. Right now, I get the sense that he's at least on par with any other VC in sereitei. I wouldn't say captain just yet tho. That is, of course, in addition to his already questionable sanity.

Originally Posted by amirali1985

For all we know, he might still do that. He could have some "sleepers" in the prison. However, the best time to organize a revolt would be at the height of battle.......peak of winter war perhaps, or maybe even when the flashback arc ends? There's no point doing it in peacetime though, because the captains could probably easily neutralize the threat.

Good theory. In fact, I'm kinda thinking that's what Mayuri is to Urahara. A sleeper in the facility. I've mentioned before that Mayuri would do the dirty side of Urahara's work, and there's no better place for him to do this under everyone's nose in the facility. He can't do it himself when confined, but I'm sure he has ways to influence other inmates to do his bidding. And as for Aizen, causing a revolt would be a great distraction, or it could even be Aizen's insurance. He probably expected Gotei 13 to move Karakura into SS, or at least prepared for that possibility to show up, and placed spies in the maggot's nest to put a revolt while other subsidiaries outside of the nest would carry out the task of collecting souls for the king's key.

Originally Posted by amirali1985

Agreed. It's just that before this chapter, I always knew he was a terrific guy in straght one-vs-one combat. But after hearing his job including catching suspected criminals without drawing attention......I now think of him as a classical stealth ninja type also. I can picture Urahara as the Batman or DeadShot style figure, silently stalking his prey from the shadows.

Hints like this were thrown around in the SS arc. Yoruichi mentioned that she and Urahara always sparred together in that cave. It makes sense that Urahara would be knowledgeble about stealth techniques and hand to hand combat considering he always trained with her.

[Zek]

By the way, changing the subject, am I the only one who thinks that Hikifune is Ichigo's mom? There's been this whole air of mystery about her that's really suspicious. I'm calling it here and now, she met Isshin in the royal guard and they eloped to the real world to get Urahara's help because fraternization wasn't allowed :P

[HayashiTakara]

er... we already know who Ichigo's mom is... she was human, I doubt two spirits can have 3 human babies... well half human in essence

[WinterSerenade]

Originally Posted by Zek

By the way, changing the subject, am I the only one who thinks that Hikifune is Ichigo's mom? There's been this whole air of mystery about her that's really suspicious. I'm calling it here and now, she met Isshin in the royal guard and they eloped to the real world to get Urahara's help because fraternization wasn't allowed :P

It makes sense and would be a cool plot twist, because throughout Bleach we were under the impression that Ichigo's mom was human.

[Amirali]

That would also connect hiyori and Ichigo, hmm? He had the mother she always idolized. No wonder she beat him up with that slipper so often .

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

er... we already know who Ichigo's mom is... she was human, I doubt two spirits can have 3 human babies... well half human in essence

All depends on how fully functional the gigais are :P.

[HayashiTakara]

We know she's human because, she didn't see the grand fisher, and was killed by it. If you're assuming she was also a shinigami... she would've kicked its ass, took its name and went back and had more babies with Isshin.

[WinterSerenade]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

We know she's human because, she didn't see the grand fisher, and was killed by it. If you're assuming she was also a shinigami... she would've kicked its ass, took its name and went back and had more babies with Isshin.

right...wow I feel stupid...*sigh* oh well it would have been cool if Hikifune was Ichigo's mom....:P

[Amirali]

I think untraceable gigai also lower reiatsu and powers to 0; making even a shinigami weak. At least it prevented Rukia getting her powers back. Isshin also lost his powers for a while, I think.

Anyway, there's not enough evidence to argue that she was a shinigami. Can't rule it out either though.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Zek

The same thing happens when a hollow eats a human soul(probably), and there hasn't been any huge catastrophe after all these years. Hell, if every single Hollow were simply killed the difference would be more than made up for by the souls that don't get eaten as a result. I think this was a really flawed concept and Kubo basically dropped the whole issue of Hollow purification/death after telling Ishida's backstory. We certainly haven't seen any Espada get redeemed by a soul slayer.

Actually we have... The process of redeeming a hollow is to just kill it using the sword... nothing more. So Noi, #7, Szyeal, #9, and so forth have all been redeemed.

Though i do agree that it's a flawed concept... i mean, the part about the hollows eating humans could be salvaged with an explaination that redeeming the hollows causes all their spirit energy to return to SS, and that spirit energy includes the human souls that they've eaten... However, what's still problematic is the fact that the swords are the only way to redeem a Hollow, and yet we have seen several other methods to killing hollows that are not shunned...

Orihime, Chad, Ururu, Tessai, Jinta, Yourichi along with Ishida and anyone who might kill using Kido spells, are all guitly of killing hollows in a fashion that would be damaging... So far there has been shown no reason for Yourichi NOT to use her sword... and Urahara is responsible for Ururu, Tessai and Jinta and has not payed attention to how they kill... and when it comes to the humans, SS has no problem with what they do despite the fact that they killed off nearly all the quincy's for doing the same damn thing. SS should indeed have a problem with them.

To make things more complicated, one of the earliest conflicts that Ichigo had to deal with was the idea that hollows were once human and he could not kill them because of that... the fact that he was redeeming the hollows he killed was the one thing that provided him the comfort he needed to fight on... he should have a SERIOUS problem with Chad, Ishida and Orihime killing hollows the way they, and would explained to them the whole thing... Hell, the conclusion of Ichigo's fight with that Privaron he fought also shows the same problem; he sparred his life, but that was actually dooming him to a worst fate with the Exequias, Ichigo should have known it would be better to kill the guy and redeem him

Really, from what it looks like, Kubo wrote that fact early on, but then later on he just decided to retcon that fact and instead of presenting a half-assed explaination in a sad attempt to avoid a plot hole, he just pretends that fact never existed

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

er... we already know who Ichigo's mom is... she was human, I doubt two spirits can have 3 human babies... well half human in essence

Well don't forget Urahara's untraceable Gigai's... the idea behind them was that would prevent the shinigami from gaining their powers and as eventually they were supposed to turn into a human... Ishin gave up his soul slayer powers and became a human... and i don't think even he's sure how he got his powers back

[HayashiTakara]

Urahara wasn't surprise to see Isshin with his powers. Isshin is completely aware of everything that goes on with Ichigo and the hollows, it just seems to me that people are trying to come up with more crazy theories to make things more interesting.

[Amirali]

Ah, you figured me out.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Though i do agree that it's a flawed concept... i mean, the part about the hollows eating humans could be salvaged with an explaination that redeeming the hollows causes all their spirit energy to return to SS, and that spirit energy includes the human souls that they've eaten... However, what's still problematic is the fact that the swords are the only way to redeem a Hollow, and yet we have seen several other methods to killing hollows that are not shunned...

Orihime, Chad, Ururu, Tessai, Jinta, Yourichi along with Ishida and anyone who might kill using Kido spells, are all guitly of killing hollows in a fashion that would be damaging... So far there has been shown no reason for Yourichi NOT to use her sword... and Urahara is responsible for Ururu, Tessai and Jinta and has not payed attention to how they kill... and when it comes to the humans, SS has no problem with what they do despite the fact that they killed off nearly all the quincy's for doing the same damn thing. SS should indeed have a problem with them.

What SS was most concerned about wasn't fact the Quincy were destroying hollow but the scale on which they were doing it. They were a clan who actively hunted and destroyed hollows . We don't know numbers at their peak but the clan could've reached the hundreds or the even the thousands. With these numbers, they could easily kill more hollows in a few months than Chad, Orihime and Ishida could in a lifetime. And with their powers and techniques being passed down each generation, if the clan continued to grow, the balance of souls would begin to be affected. That is the reason Souls Society was forced to intervene with them.

A shinigami destroying a hollow once in a while with kidou in the event that the zanpakuto can't be used (like Renji attempted with Syzael) isn't a huge problem, provided the shinigami normally kills with his sword. Shinigami have ways to destroy hollow without their zanpakuto, but they mainly rely on their swords, so the majority of the fights result with the hollow being cleansed unlike the Quincy who have no other way to fight.

To make things more complicated, one of the earliest conflicts that Ichigo had to deal with was the idea that hollows were once human and he could not kill them because of that... the fact that he was redeeming the hollows he killed was the one thing that provided him the comfort he needed to fight on... he should have a SERIOUS problem with Chad, Ishida and Orihime killing hollows the way they, and would explained to them the whole thing...

Ishida already understands what his techniques do. Both Ichigo and Rukia have known that. If he wants, he can use his powers in a way that doesn't destroy hollows (he spared both Iceringer and Chirucci in HM). Chad, like Ishida can use his powers in a non-lethal way. Also Chad and Orihime don't hunt hollows only defend against them. Between the two of them, they have only killed a total of two hollow in the entire story (that I can remember).

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

We know she's human because, she didn't see the grand fisher, and was killed by it. If you're assuming she was also a shinigami... she would've kicked its ass, took its name and went back and had more babies with Isshin.

We don't know for sure she didn't see him. She did try to stop him from running to him towards the river and from her wounds she was useing herself to sheild him. Also there is the fact that she was the only one killed. If Ichigo was much more powerful then she was why wasn't he killed as well since he would be the better food?

[cloak_and_dagger]

I was wondering..wouldn't it be a cool shocker if after the time skip it is revealed that new captains (or at least one) have been chosen to fill the void? To my recollection, the captains haven't been shown [post-Aizen rebellion] together in formation in the gotei 13 building recently. Plus, I believe that the time period from when Urahara was recommended to his appointment[including the captain test] wasn't that long. And he/she/them could've been asked to stay in SS as backup and to avoid Aizen & co. ultimate pwnage.

Of course, if someone posted a general taicho meeting-pic in recent chapters, it'd screw my theory backwards.

[HayashiTakara]

I don't recall any wounds, and she wasn't shielding him, when Ichigo woke up she was like 10 feet away from him, Shielding would mean he'll wake with her on top of him.

[MAQI]

Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger

I was wondering..wouldn't it be a cool shocker if after the time skip it is revealed that new captains (or at least one) have been chosen to fill the void? To my recollection, the captains haven't been shown [post-Aizen rebellion] together in formation in the gotei 13 building recently. Plus, I believe that the time period from when Urahara was recommended to his appointment[including the captain test] wasn't that long. And he/she/them could've been asked to stay in SS as backup and to avoid Aizen & co. ultimate pwnage.

Of course, if someone posted a general taicho meeting-pic in recent chapters, it'd screw my theory backwards.

Yeah, I would love to see Ikkaku in a captain's robe!

[cloak_and_dagger]

yea that'd be awesome..but if a new character was introduced(preferably a woman with nemu-type clothing ) that'd be even more awesome! We haven't seen even the 3rd-5th seats of the 3rd, 5th and 7th squads so it's a possibility...a 3rd seat jumper like Urahara would be cool X)