(L) Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou [WN]

[omegasereon]

Originally Posted by HasNoLove

hey, hajime did hide status of his plate with some kind of magic right? do you thing dat magic still workin on people in the kingdom, someone like the high priest? though I know dat hajime already go to god level, but still...

iirc there was an option on the plate to hide status.

[HasNoLove]

^does those who make it could unhide it, like people who do dat in some forums or games(admin, mod, gm, or even the makers)..?

[omegasereon]

Originally Posted by HasNoLove

^does those who make it could unhide it, like people who do dat in some forums or games(admin, mod, gm, or even the makers)..?

No idea. Wasn't stated.

[Kioras]

The basic design of a firearm is amazingly simple. The devil is in the details.

You need a Tube, you need a substance that will expand extremely rapidly, a bullet and a firing mechanism.

The tube is the simplest portion, the only problem is making it strong enough for the forces of the explosion, while remaining light enough to use.

The bullet is also very easy, common early ones were stone and lead. Producing a lot of lead bullets means inventing an industrial process(quite hard).

The explosive material would be either gun power (or another explosive), a magical fantasy material (like what Hajime has) or using a magical spell to instantly vaporize and then rapidly expand something like water.

The last challenge would be the mechanism. If they have crossbow's a simple trigger for a match or flint lock would not be too hard. A magical gun would likely be even simpler but would need someone to fire it with magic. A wick passing through a hole on top of the barrel would be used for either cannons or the earliest guns.

The real problem is that I am not too sure how likely any knowledge of guns would be for the class itself. This is a typical Japanese class, I doubt anyone would go hunting with their parents, or target shooting and know how to strip down a gun. Gunpowder would be very simple for a material to get, however they would need to know what materials they need to ask for, and how to mix and grind it.

The power of early 17th and 18th century firearms would alter the balance, as rifled ones can have a decent firing range, but a slow firing rate, and massed fire of smooth bore rifles have a rate of fire of once every 20 seconds and the wounds made by the early guns were quite deadly or debilitating. Massed fire behind a pike wall could likely move quite far down the dungeon. A few light artillery pieces would be useful for a boss like the behemoth.

Unless Hajime passes some information on regarding guns I doubt they will appear at all in the story except as artifact level weapons like Hajime's arsenal.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Kioras

The basic design of a firearm is amazingly simple. The devil is in the details.

You need a Tube, you need a substance that will expand extremely rapidly, a bullet and a firing mechanism.

The tube is the simplest portion, the only problem is making it strong enough for the forces of the explosion, while remaining light enough to use.

The bullet is also very easy, common early ones were stone and lead. Producing a lot of lead bullets means inventing an industrial process(quite hard).

The explosive material would be either gun power (or another explosive), a magical fantasy material (like what Hajime has) or using a magical spell to instantly vaporize and then rapidly expand something like water.

The last challenge would be the mechanism. If they have crossbow's a simple trigger for a match or flint lock would not be too hard. A magical gun would likely be even simpler but would need someone to fire it with magic. A wick passing through a hole on top of the barrel would be used for either cannons or the earliest guns.

The real problem is that I am not too sure how likely any knowledge of guns would be for the class itself. This is a typical Japanese class, I doubt anyone would go hunting with their parents, or target shooting and know how to strip down a gun. Gunpowder would be very simple for a material to get, however they would need to know what materials they need to ask for, and how to mix and grind it.

The power of early 17th and 18th century firearms would alter the balance, as rifled ones can have a decent firing range, but a slow firing rate, and massed fire of smooth bore rifles have a rate of fire of once every 20 seconds and the wounds made by the early guns were quite deadly or debilitating. Massed fire behind a pike wall could likely move quite far down the dungeon. A few light artillery pieces would be useful for a boss like the behemoth.

Unless Hajime passes some information on regarding guns I doubt they will appear at all in the story except as artifact level weapons like Hajime's arsenal.

This is the correct mechanism but this wouldn't even successfully make a flint lock, since for gun, you have to account the heat generated by the shot as well the the trigger, the initial velocity need to be strong enough to cause reaction with gunpowder. Hajime managed to get high heat resistance material from the abyss, but the class would have a rough time find all the materials in the open world. the basic mechanism will only allow a singshot, no reload gun. And when it come to creating the trigger, i doubt that many craftmens can handle the small detail.

[Kioras]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

This is the correct mechanism but this wouldn't even successfully make a flint lock, since for gun, you have to account the heat generated by the shot as well the the trigger, the initial velocity need to be strong enough to cause reaction with gunpowder. Hajime managed to get high heat resistance material from the abyss, but the class would have a rough time find all the materials in the open world. the basic mechanism will only allow a singshot, no reload gun. And when it come to creating the trigger, i doubt that many craftmens can handle the small detail.

The craftsman and synergists would be able to easily make a match or flint lock mechanism, once they had the idea. After all in our world people having been making mechanical clocks for almost 1000 years and synergists may be able to make fine quality items much easier then a normal craftsman.

I consider making a powder a much higher stumbling block then anything else, other then coming up with the idea first.

I don't expect Hajime to help at all and don't really expect anyone in the class to really think much about his guns other then to hand wave them away.

[blankerer]

so once chapter 3 (vol 3 or whatever you want to call it by) is done.... what do you think 4 is going to end up being besides taking Miyu back to her mother.

will it finally be time to send some force to stop Hajime.... will our Hero be fine with killing thieves with his overwhelming strength....

[bakapervert]

^ I think its time for another dungeon after that. Who knows, maybe there will be underwater dungeon hidden near the place where mermaid live.

[blankerer]

or they could be like living within the vicinity of the dungeon or actually in it, like the forest dungeon that required 4 proof.

possibly the shit written in the book about the mermaids and such being protected cause they get their sea food and stuff from them being a lie..... and then once again all hell breaks lose when Hajime arrives

afterwords more Hajime drill instructor time.....

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Kioras

The craftsman and synergists would be able to easily make a match or flint lock mechanism, once they had the idea. After all in our world people having been making mechanical clocks for almost 1000 years and synergists may be able to make fine quality items much easier then a normal craftsman.

I consider making a powder a much higher stumbling block then anything else, other then coming up with the idea first.

I don't expect Hajime to help at all and don't really expect anyone in the class to really think much about his guns other then to hand wave them away.

It's a difference between being able to make it more easily and knowing how to make one. The most I can see them make would be primitive arquebuses and hand cannons.

[bludvein]

We already know Hajime's next goal is the volcano dungeon, after which they plan to take Miu back to her people.

As for gun development, I think you guys underestimate the church/kingdom's ingenuity. The biggest stumbling block in real world gun development was machining technology, and they don't even have to deal with that because of transmutation. They aren't stupid, with some input from the class they could easily skip centuries of design problems. Of course they are still gonna want Hajime's guns for a prototype, but the idea is the important part. The gaps can be filled with their own solutions.

That's assuming that nobody else in the entire class even knows much beyond common knowledge. I find it hard to believe Hajime was the only one curious enough to know how they work.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by bludvein

We already know Hajime's next goal is the volcano dungeon, after which they plan to take Miu back to her people.

As for gun development, I think you guys underestimate the church/kingdom's ingenuity. The biggest stumbling block in real world gun development was machining technology, and they don't even have to deal with that because of transmutation. They aren't stupid, with some input from the class they could easily skip centuries of design problems. Of course they are still gonna want Hajime's guns for a prototype, but the idea is the important part. The gaps can be filled with their own solutions.

That's assuming that nobody else in the entire class even knows much beyond common knowledge. I find it hard to believe Hajime was the only one curious enough to know how they work.

The class knows next to nothing about guns apart from the fact that it uses gunpower etc.They know that a modern gun can fire automatically and accurately, but they don't know how it does that inside.They can create something that looks like guns, but they have absolutely NO idea how guns work internally. The Church and people from this world has next to zero idea about just how much gunpowder or explosives it's required to fire a gun safely and efficiently. They also have no idea how rifling works seeing the most they can see would be the exterior of the gun. This means they cannot fire accurate bullets.They most probably don't know how modern reloading mechanisms work as well. This means that if a gun is indeed made, it will probably be muzzle loading single shots.The problem isn't making the guns, it's the fact that the concepts are too advanced for the people's time. It requires a lot of science for a gun to work and the kingdom simply doesn't have these concepts.

[Kleeyook]

Originally Posted by bludvein

As for gun development, I think you guys underestimate the church/kingdom's ingenuity. The biggest stumbling block in real world gun development was machining technology, and they don't even have to deal with that because of transmutation. They aren't stupid, with some input from the class they could easily skip centuries of design problems. Of course they are still gonna want Hajime's guns for a prototype, but the idea is the important part. The gaps can be filled with their own solutions.

That's assuming that nobody else in the entire class even knows much beyond common knowledge. I find it hard to believe Hajime was the only one curious enough to know how they work.

I think the whole class might not know this common knowledge. Japan is a relatively peaceful society (maybe!) and the use of firearm is quite rare, it's not the USA where most house own gun.

I also notice the trend of anime and manga where young people with interest in guns are deemed otaku... Maybe it's abnormal there.

[bakapervert]

Well, in anime or manga a character tend to go to the extreme end, either they know almost nothing about a subject, or they know it so well they even make expert amazed and look inadequate.

[Kioras]

Originally Posted by bludvein

As for gun development, I think you guys underestimate the church/kingdom's ingenuity. The biggest stumbling block in real world gun development was machining technology, and they don't even have to deal with that because of transmutation. They aren't stupid, with some input from the class they could easily skip centuries of design problems. Of course they are still gonna want Hajime's guns for a prototype, but the idea is the important part. The gaps can be filled with their own solutions.

That's assuming that nobody else in the entire class even knows much beyond common knowledge. I find it hard to believe Hajime was the only one curious enough to know how they work.

There is no lack of skills or machining preventing the kingdom from making later era flintlock rifled muskets, similar to what was used right before the american civil war. It would take time to get it right but as long as someone else in the class has the concepts they would get it right, eventually. Scaling up production of any of the materials would take quite a bit longer, as you are creating several new 'guilds' at the same time.

Knowing what 3 materials would be needed to make powder is the largest hurdle. Since this is a Japanese class I doubt many have such knowledge. None of the class other than Aiko is anything but a combat class. Granted if Aiko could magically produce a lot of pure nitrate...

I am not even sure Hajime knows how to make powder, since he had his own magical equalivent and his mentallity currently would not be one to share knowledge.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Kioras

There is no lack of skills or machining preventing the kingdom from making later era flintlock rifled muskets, similar to what was used right before the american civil war. It would take time to get it right but as long as someone else in the class has the concepts they would get it right, eventually. Scaling up production of any of the materials would take quite a bit longer, as you are creating several new 'guilds' at the same time.

Knowing what 3 materials would be needed to make powder is the largest hurdle. Since this is a Japanese class I doubt many have such knowledge. None of the class other than Aiko is anything but a combat class. Granted if Aiko could magically produce a lot of pure nitrate...

I am not even sure Hajime knows how to make powder, since he had his own magical equalivent and his mentallity currently would not be one to share knowledge.

I agree with that, but highly someone from his class other than himself would have it.

[Kleeyook]

BTW, how practical would the firearm the army made (if they could) be? They don't have direct magic manipulation like the monsters and hajime so they'll need casting time that made it impractical to use. The material like tar can only be found in the Abyss, not to mention the metal needed to create the weapon.

They might be able to create low quality firearm that can fire bullet, that might not be able to penetrate the skin of the monster. I don't know if the stats also affected how the efficiency of the weapon, considering that all firearm has recoil, wouldn't most people break their arm or blow themselves backward if they used Hajime's weapon?

[Xacual]

The bigger problem would be that even if they did have practical knowledge, none of them are synergists to understand this fantasy world's materials. They can describe what they know of guns and hope the synergists can make something of it, but odds are what they're describe will make crappy guns in no way comparable to what Hajime has which is what judging by the reports I'm sure they'll get from the knights with Aiko are what they expect to get.

[bakapervert]

What Hajime has as his first gun is an oversized Magnum. Even without the railgun addition, the baby still pack a powerful impact and penetration. Not to mention his bullet also seems fulfilled the standard of modern rifle. I agree with Kleyook that if they can only made a basic firearm, I'm not sure it can penetrate the hide of a monster or even high leveled human with decent defense status or decent armor.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

BTW, how practical would the firearm the army made (if they could) be? They don't have direct magic manipulation like the monsters and hajime so they'll need casting time that made it impractical to use. The material like tar can only be found in the Abyss, not to mention the metal needed to create the weapon.

They might be able to create low quality firearm that can fire bullet, that might not be able to penetrate the skin of the monster. I don't know if the stats also affected how the efficiency of the weapon, considering that all firearm has recoil, wouldn't most people break their arm or blow themselves backward if they used Hajime's weapon?

Hajime was able to fire Donner with the railgun with like 150 or so strength, and thats with no supporting hand. So was Yue. I don't think its a problem to fire it without the railgun for even an average soldier.

The railgun would be a little harder to replicate though. Yue was able to mimic it with a beginner lightning magic, but its not something everybody would be able to use. Which means they would need a bigger caliber for power. Doable though.