2011-12-09, 19:22 | Link #941 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Look at it this way, Manglobe or Palette made the girls interesting enough to not make an unbalanced allocation that people can like in different ways.
Yeah non-preference of Miu is due to a non-preference not on distaste of the character. I will admit the show did feel like two halves. Thus I don't exactly disagree with the overall discussion, for or against. |
2011-12-09, 19:29 | Link #942 | ||
True Harem End or BUST
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Its pretty much a good amount of "Miu was chosen, it now sucks"
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2011-12-09, 19:30 | Link #943 |
Salt Levels Critical
Join Date: Oct 2007
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This is just a silly and only half serious observation on my part but - if I were a character in this series, I think I'd be legitimately worried that Airi was stalking me. She always seems to be observing every situation, understands everything that's going on, and most of all appears at the perfect time every time. It's definitely understandable that she'd have been following Sana in this case but I've noticed this happening in the past bunch of episodes too. I know it's just because she cares about her friends but I couldn't resist mentioning it.
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2011-12-09, 19:32 | Link #944 | ||
Blooming on the mountain
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....
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Seriously? On a similar topic though - I must admit that I have been surprised how much traffic this thread has gotten since ep 10 aired. Quote:
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2011-12-09, 19:58 | Link #946 |
True Harem End or BUST
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Well, back then, I remember the general idea of this show was it being "slow" and "boring" to many. And even I have to admit that most of my post were about it being laid-back and easy going. But the plot has kicked into high gear with the drama, so it does make sense now lol.
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2011-12-09, 20:02 | Link #947 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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I think viewers are more used to something more active, more direct. Even though Shingo confession is an action, although its not surprising it's not like out loud or in the open. Quite private really. |
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2011-12-09, 20:16 | Link #948 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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For me, I'd hate to see a romance anime with a "choose your own adventure" ending. An anime is not a game - I don't think you can properly develop the characters unless you're building towards a specific pairing at the end. Kudos to Manglobe for picking an ending and building the series around it.
As for Airi, I don't personally feel there's any doubt she was a tsundere at first. She clearly treated Shingo more harshly than she should have because her feelings for him disturbed her. I think the infamous bath episode was when that really toned down to the point where it was marginal whether it applied at all.
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2011-12-09, 21:03 | Link #950 | |
Dango Daikaizoku
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southern California
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As a side note, I don't know if this was discussed already but I noticed something in the OP Watch from 0:59-1:06 or so when all the girls are running around in the snow. The focus is all on Airi. Airi, girl runs by, Airi, girl runs by, Airi etc. Then at the end of the sequence Airi moves away and BOOM! Miu out of nowhere. Seems like foreshadowing to me
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2011-12-09, 22:52 | Link #952 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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More than 40 posts in one night, and several essays at that? You guys sure are passionate
I'm quite happy with the way Manglobe has been going with the series, really. While I understand some of you are not happy with the fact that Airi got cast aside, hyl, relentless and Skyfall have provided enough read to counter those parts, but still, it hurts where it hurts. However, the fact that Manglobe managed to gather this much discussion and attention for an underdog-like show like Mashifoni is amazing, isn't it? For that I respected the studio very deeply. |
2011-12-09, 22:53 | Link #953 | |||
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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I think the bath scene showed a lot more about what Shingo was thinking to that point because Airi realizes that Shingo is just showing her compassion like he would show to anyone else. I think she realized at the end of episode 6 that Shingo wasn't caring about her in the romantically interested sense by not inviting her into the kitty club. It was kind of a turn-around of episode 3 where she realizes that she feels differently about Shingo than other boys. Quote:
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In the majority of these kinds of situations, you see an actual triangle in which the male lead has to actively take a step forward to break the equilibrium and trample upon one relationship in order to commit to his actual love interest (ignoring the obvious copout anime/mangas). Usually, the male lead goes through the inner turmoil of crushing the third wheel's feelings actively before consummating his relationship (and it's typically a gut-wrenching and often drawn-out process). Here, we have the rarer opposite situation in which the couple hasn't yet faced the spurned girl and dealt with it. The more interesting thing here is that Miu has a chance to play a much larger part than most female heroines do in this kind of situation. In most of these situations (Ichigo 100%, Maison Ikkoku, VGAI, heck True Tears - I'm not really spoiling anything by listing them), it's the male lead that has to absorb the inevitable anguish before going to the girl that he's selected. More often than not, we see a relationship that in one direction (male lead to female heroine) is forged through the resolution of the conflict. This time we could possibly see both directions forged because of Sana's close relationships with both Miu and Shingo. I agree that the ride has been enjoyable, but the ending will almost completely define this anime adaptation. That's the road that this kind of approach leads to, especially since Shingo and Miu haven't dealt with anything like this since their demonstration of compassion has never been directed towards a problem aimed squarely at themselves. They've lead almost charmed lives in which their "general" compassion and kindness has managed to get them through the various problems that have been presented. In this case, a very "specific" compassion is needed because Sana sees herself as a sister to Miu and feels deeply in love with Shingo. Of course, I don't mean to ignore Airi, and she has played a critical support role in all of this, since she's really the one that's grown as a character through her interactions with Shingo, Sana, Miu, and Ange to this point. However, her progression in the second half is almost parallel to the events surrounding Shingo, Miu, and Sana as an observer that doesn't take an active role in intervening into the conflict. Her growth as a character isn't going to define the ending because hers was the most evenly distributed throughout and with respect to love, I think she'll get the same lesson that Sana learns, so Sana's result is more important at this point. To connect Airi to the above, I don't think Airi can present the "specific" compassion needed to resolve the conflict here. Spoiler for Airi's thoughts at the end of Ep 10:
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2011-12-09, 23:32 | Link #954 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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YAY for Miu
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In the first episodes we all thought the story was likely to develop towards Airi, the tsundere with whom the male lead had a fated encounter with. But after those initial episodes the focus noticeably shifted from Airi to Miu(which is in itself is a rarity in harem animes, while Airi was the stereotypical choice, the hardheaded tsundere, Miu was the sweet, calm and straigtforward girl who usually remains a side character througout the series). Quote:
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If you think it though, it couldn't have had ended in any other way for Sana. I mean, she acted like a bitch towards Shingo basically in every episode(except the first two episodes I think) , there is no way he could feel the same towards her than towards someone like Miu, it takes common sense to realize that. Quote:
Also it sounds something impossible to do after that sort of confession, particularly because Miu accepted it and there is no doubt or ambiguity about the feelings of both Shingo and Miu. By the way, episode 11 is the last episode. There is only one left, not two. It's called "Mashiro-iro Symphony". Quote:
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2011-12-10, 00:53 | Link #955 | |||||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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1. Airi's transformation 2. The discovery/explanation of Shingo's personality (and its impact on those around him) 3. Sana's tragic first love 4. Shingo & Miu's courtship/romance The latter is actually the last-place priority for the show in terms of development and focus so far (though it may move up a bit in the time remaining to balance things out). It absolutely happened, and was a recurring thread throughout, but it rarely took the spotlight until recently. All in all, the transition of "plot movers" is only tangentially related to the character development and theme development that are actually at the center of the story. In other words, the main characters in this story are not the ones who the plot is centering around, but the ones who are being most developed by the narrative. Quote:
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One more thing for now: Quote:
Spoiler for Episode 10:
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2011-12-10, 01:15 | Link #956 |
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A couple points:
1. In response to Relentlessflame and vio5555, I can compromise on "risky". That's probably a fairer and more accurate assessment than simply "flawed", I'll admit. Even here, I want to emphasize that my observations are based on the heavily ingrained expectations that viewers have for most VN-adaptations (i.e. that a lot of it will focus on romance, and the eventual establishment of one or more). If Mashiro-iro Symphony was a light novel adaptation, say, I'd probably have less issue here. Going into most VN-adaptations (the exceptions being ones with up-front multigenre appeal like Steins;Gate and Fate/Stay Night), the shipping aspect will inevitably focus a lot of viewers thoughts, even if romance is only a small part of the show when all is said and done. 2. Part of the reason why I questioned Airi being categorized as a tsundere is that I think that the true Airi is actually the Airi of Episode 1 (i.e. the one that helped out Sakuno and was initially nice to Shingo). It's possible that Airi doesn't even dislike boys, per se, she just didn't want her beloved all-girls school to change. That being said, I like the idea DasDingus raised of Airi being a throwback classical tsundere. I haven't seen one of those in ages (the last was probably Fate/Stay Night's Rin Tohsaka), so the idea appeals to me a fair bit for that reason. So that's fine. I can go along with DasDingus there.
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2011-12-10, 01:32 | Link #957 |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Regarding Airi's "tsundere-ism"... I can't really call her a tsundere character because that was just a façade. She had actual reasons for being standoff-ish that were developed and resolved, and now her behaviour has reverted to its normal state (shown at the beginning of the anime). She wasn't being "bitchy" to Shingo particularly to cover up romantic feelings towards him (though she did see him as a bit different than the other guys). And as her "true self", she's still strong-willed and easily-embarrassed (not just deredere all the time), but the temporary standoff-ish nature is gone.
So I guess I'd say she was showing some "tsundere-like tendencies" in the early days, but she's not really a "tsundere character" if you ask me. I'd say Sana, on the other hand, is a tsundere character.
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2011-12-10, 02:26 | Link #958 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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The introduction was supposed to be Airi-centric and about her assimilating with the rest of the group as much as the boys side assimilating with the girls side. If there had been more full ShingoxMiu foreshadowing, I think it probably would have been a disservice to that intent. In that respect, I think the anime chose to keep the focus narrow, while allowing the viewer to openly speculate on which direction the expected romance would eventually go. With these kinds of animes especially, the speculation of a male lead-side character pairing would have probably been a total distraction for most viewers if it had been a lot more transparent than a few minor hints. Thus, the Miu parts did not steal from the Airi-centric nature of the first half. Of course, that all began to change at the end of episode 6. The risks are going to be magnified any time the viewer is kept relatively in the dark for a half season, particularly in a genre (VN adaptation, shounen romance) where the viewer comes in with a robust (but often small) set of expectations (hence the problem of distractions). Mashiro-iro is trying to do something more unique than the usual mold of VN-adaptation. It's trying to do that in a genre where very few mold-breakers end up being well received by viewers (especially compared to how safe a production like Amagami SS is versus something that could lead to unhappy shippers). The reason I don't like the word flaw to describe the transition (although I may have slipped somewhere in this thread, so don't hold me to that) is that the anime did try to temper our expectations during the first 6 episodes before showing us its twist. It's obviously risky because this anime will be judged not on the first 10 episodes but on the final 2 even though we enjoyed the ride. If the final 2 episodes don't manage to resolve the conflict in a satisfying and believable way, then that would be a flaw in execution. But we haven't yet crossed that threshold at this point, since the anime is just entering the resolution phase. |
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2011-12-10, 03:27 | Link #960 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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To be clear, let's say that the show just spends the last two episodes focused only on the Shingo & Miu romance and leaves everything else as is. If they were to do that, I think the transitions would be a flaw. But that isn't what I expect. Instead, I expect symmetry between the first episode and the last episode, and full closure. I think the basic question will be: what is the legacy of Shingo and Miu's kindness? With Miu heading towards graduation, and Shingo now in a relationship with her, I think the other characters will have a chance to step up to the plate on their own. What this does is raise and cement both Shingo and Miu on a pedestal, as the sort of bar that others can aspire to. Actually, if you think about it more carefully, that's actually been the key point/message about them all along, even though we see their flaws as well. (Darn, now that I think about it, that's really what Sana's releasing of Shingo to go "save" Miu meant. Sana sees Miu as a goddess, and no matter what she does she can never measure up, even though she aspires to be like her. She doesn't want any guy to get close to Miu because she doesn't want her goddess to be tainted. But over the course of the show, she slowly came to see Shingo as a god as well (ref. her idealized memory of his kind gestures towards her in the montage). Sana was never able to stop Miu from working herself to exhaustion, but she realizes at that moment that maybe Shingo can do something that she never could. It's sort of like saying "it takes a god to save another". Even though she fell in love with Shingo, he was always sort of out of reach, and this reminded her of her own shortcomings and failings. But "Shingo is a considerate person; like an umbrella that shields us from the bright sun, and shelters us from the cold rain." If there was anyone that could save Miu, it was him. So she lets him go, knowing full-well that this will only bring him closer to Miu. At the end of the day, the two gods deserve each other, and that's the theme of their romance. The theme of the show is all the rest of us, and that's why everyone else gets the character development.)
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eroge, romance, seinen |
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