[Manga] Naruto Chapter 580 Discussion

[Randrak42]

I miss when ANBU meant something...now it's like

Guy A: "I killed a team of ANBU"
Guy B: "Meh, you're moderately strong I suppose."

[Shiryuu]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

I miss when ANBU meant something...now it's like

Guy A: "I killed a team of ANBU"
Guy B: "Meh, you're moderately strong I suppose."

ANBU were always crap ninja. Masked/unnamed = fodder.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by lucasd

Saying Kabuto has no backstory shows only your ignorance, but there is still much we do not know about.

As a young boy, Kabuto was found amongst the dead enemies after the Battle of Kikyō Pass by a captain of the Konoha Medic Corps. The captain brought Kabuto to Konoha, raised him as a son, and taught him medical ninjutsu when he got older. At some point in time, Kabuto was recruited by Sasori of Akatsuki, who sent Kabuto to spy on Orochimaru by using Memory-Concealing Manipulative Sand Technique to transform him into a sleeper agent. Orochimaru discovered this, and released Sasori's control over Kabuto's memories, leaving Kabuto with the option to follow him. With a little persuasion, Kabuto agreed to side with Orochimaru.

Kabuto has since used his experience with spying for Orochimaru, playing the role of Sasori's servant to gain knowledge of Akatsuki's plans. Through his affiliation with Konoha, Kabuto was also able to acquire the rank of genin and enter the biannual Chūnin Exams, using the first two parts of the exam to gather information on his fellow participants for Orochimaru's use. Additionally, with the medical expertise taught to him by his adoptive parent, Kabuto is able to carry out human experiments for Orochimaru, while at the same time increasing his own knowledge of the human body.

.... (part 1 , when ANBU meant something)
Despite officially being a genin, Kabuto has proven himself to be a skilled and cunning ninja far beyond that level, particularly because of his medical abilities. His skills are said to rival those of Kakashi Hatake on more than one occasion. He has been shown to be able to kill ANBU members with relative ease and even mockingly stated he could handle at least ten ANBU members. Through keen observation, Kabuto can quickly determine the situation at hand. Even when up against a stronger opponent, he can take advantage by quickly exploiting their weakness. Kabuto is also very adaptable, as when Tsunade flipped his nervous system signals, he managed to regain control of his body quickly, a feat that impressed Tsunade.

what we mean when we say he has no backstory is that there is nothing in your lengthy post about kabuto's personality or seeds of his motivation. its all just him going from point a to point b without any deeper meaning to his actions. i.e. why is he so obsessed with experimentation and why did he sympathize so greatly with orochimaru? he is a very 1 dimensional character compared to other major players. even compared to the k11. at least that's what I mean when I say it...

[lucasd]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

what we mean when we say he has no backstory is that there is nothing in your lengthy post about kabuto's personality or seeds of his motivation. its all just him going from point a to point b without any deeper meaning to his actions. i.e. why is he so obsessed with experimentation and why did he sympathize so greatly with orochimaru? he is a very 1 dimensional character compared to other major players. even compared to the k11. at least that's what I mean when I say it...

So you use bad words, you meant that he is flat. But in manga it was said that even Orochimaru did not know what really Kabuto thinks and being mysterious is not flat, especially that he show some considerable attention to Naruto etc.
Akutsuki for some time were also with no real purpose.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by lucasd

So you use bad words, you meant that he is flat. But in manga it was said that even Orochimaru did not know what really Kabuto thinks and being mysterious is not flat, especially that he show some considerable attention to Naruto etc.
Akutsuki for some time were also with no real purpose.

i think you misunderstood. we know he was a talented medical nin, he became sasori's spy then he became oro's servant. but what i really wanted to know was what happened to this man in his past that turned him into this psychopath, there's usually a reason. if he's really just psychotic, he wouldn't allow himself to be a mere servant, people like that usually have ulterior motives. and so far we're not getting it. i was very intrigued with him at first but now it seems like he's just oro's pupil who wishes to surpass him and avenge his death. but even that is uncertain.

most villains are megalomaniacs with big ambitions. some are motivated by their fanatical views and twisted sense of justice. some are motivated by hatred. kabuto's motivations are unclear. at least with oro we knew, he wanted to cheat death and gain ultimate knowledge that stemmed from his experience in childhood where he lost his parents. tobi is still a mystery, but at least we know what he's after. he wants power. as to why he needs it, we don't know yet but we know there's a reason behind it. what about kabuto? what does he want?

the dark knight's the joker was also a mysterious villain. his motivation was not world domination or even money, he just wanted to watch the world burn. is kabuto like him? is he simply a psychopath who wants to wreak havoc and see people suffer? we don't know. that's the reason why i feel he's uninteresting because i don't know him. i don't know what he wants. i can't relate to him so i can neither hate or like him as a character.

mystery is good, it creates intrigue and interest. but when you go on for this long and not reveal a shred of answer, it becomes tiresome and boring. bleach's aizen is a good example. kubo made him too mysterious that in the end his cloak of mystery became his demise as a character. he became boring. turns out he's nothing more than a one-dimensional villain with no real back story and cookie-cutter ambitions.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by lucasd

So you use bad words, you meant that he is flat. But in manga it was said that even Orochimaru did not know what really Kabuto thinks and being mysterious is not flat, especially that he show some considerable attention to Naruto etc.
Akutsuki for some time were also with no real purpose.

not really. in naruto a backstory means more than just being told what the person did at times. it means that we see an actual story of their past that explains the character in more detail. i.e. sasori's childhood when he lost his parents and learned the puppet tech, kisame being a ruthless soldier who carries out orders despite the cost to his comrades or himself, deidara's inferiority complex, danzo's hesitation and regret. these manga pages or chapters are done in gray and specific to those characters' pasts. their brief backstories explained where their motivations came from. kabuto has not had anything like this. we have only been told in passing that he was 'this' and then he was 'that'. that doesn't qualify as a backstory.

[Goshin]

After very little time thinking actually, I'm starting to feel maybe Kabuto was suppose to be Orochimaru's Last body jump. If he has unlimited healing he should technically really be immortal. Now that we know that Sharigran Evolves to rinnegan, its possible that orochimaru's goal was not to use the copying ability of the sharingran to learn all the jutsu but to evolve sasuke's sharingran to Rinnegan than Hop to Kabuto's body (Equipped with Uzumaki DNA). Orochimaru would have unlocked the full potential of the rinnegan and Learned All jutsu etc....

If we take all that into account, i think it is reasonable to believe that Kabuto had boy crush on Orochimaru much like most of his other experimental boy toys. and it was the subsequent death of his Beloved Orochimaru that turned him completely Pyschotic. He probably wants sasuke to Either: Avenge Oro's Death and/Or Get those Uchiha Eyes and complete Orochimaru's Plans and/Or Unseal ORO with Rinnegan.....

Excuse for Poor Grammar...

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Goshin

After very little time thinking actually, I'm starting to feel maybe Kabuto was suppose to be Orochimaru's Last body jump. If he has unlimited healing he should technically really be immortal. Now that we know that Sharigran Evolves to rinnegan, its possible that orochimaru's goal was not to use the copying ability of the sharingran to learn all the jutsu but to evolve sasuke's sharingran to Rinnegan than Hop to Kabuto's body (Equipped with Uzumaki DNA). Orochimaru would have unlocked the full potential of the rinnegan and Learned All jutsu etc....

If we take all that into account, i think it is reasonable to believe that Kabuto had boy crush on Orochimaru much like most of his other experimental boy toys. and it was the subsequent death of his Beloved Orochimaru that turned him completely Pyschotic. He probably wants sasuke to Either: Avenge Oro's Death and/Or Get those Uchiha Eyes and complete Orochimaru's Plans and/Or Unseal ORO with Rinnegan.....

Excuse for Poor Grammar...

Before Sasuke fought Oro we saw Oro in bed and he was coughing up blood with Kabuto near him.

If Oro planned to use Kabuto as a vessal, he could have gone into Kabuto's body and then took Sasuke's sharingan yet he waited for Sasuke to come to him to take Sasuke's body.

So it seems unlikely Oro wanted Kabuto's body as a vessal since he was neither Uchiha or Senju and implanting Senju DNA in a normal person's body isn't as effective according to Tobi which Oro would probably know form research.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

most villains are megalomaniacs with big ambitions. some are motivated by their fanatical views and twisted sense of justice. some are motivated by hatred. kabuto's motivations are unclear. at least with oro we knew, he wanted to cheat death and gain ultimate knowledge that stemmed from his experience in childhood where he lost his parents. tobi is still a mystery, but at least we know what he's after. he wants power. as to why he needs it, we don't know yet but we know there's a reason behind it. what about kabuto? what does he want?

Kabuto's stated his goals pretty clearly: He wanted to surpass Oro. He's done that. He wants revenge/defeat/capture of Sasuke. He's doing that now. Then eventually, he said he wants the Rinnegan and presumably after that all the unique powers in the ninja world.

It's true we haven't been given a well-defined pivotal moment in Kabuto's life that explains why he's evil, but it seems pretty likely that his motivations are For Science. He's a medical and scientific genius, but lacking when it comes to natural abilities, so he used his research to take them.

If that's not deep enough, don't worry. I'm sure Kishi will tack on a sob story for him when he's about to die to make Kabuto seem more sympathetic like he did for Oro. We'll find out how Kabuto pricked his finger as child and it hurt so bad he decided to become a med nin so he could heal all his wounds, but then shortly after his pet goldfish died so he decided to become evil.

[Kafriel]

We'll find out how Kabuto pricked his finger as child and it hurt so bad he decided to become a med nin so he could heal all his wounds, but then shortly after his pet goldfish died so he decided to become evil.

I thought it was because the ninja cards he made during the chuunin exam didn't sell...it was the TCG-to-be in the Narutoverse, so much time of data gathering, wasted!

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Kabuto's stated his goals pretty clearly: He wanted to surpass Oro. He's done that. He wants revenge/defeat/capture of Sasuke. He's doing that now. Then eventually, he said he wants the Rinnegan and presumably after that all the unique powers in the ninja world.

It's true we haven't been given a well-defined pivotal moment in Kabuto's life that explains why he's evil, but it seems pretty likely that his motivations are For Science. He's a medical and scientific genius, but lacking when it comes to natural abilities, so he used his research to take them.

If that's not deep enough, don't worry. I'm sure Kishi will tack on a sob story for him when he's about to die to make Kabuto seem more sympathetic like he did for Oro. We'll find out how Kabuto pricked his finger as child and it hurt so bad he decided to become a med nin so he could heal all his wounds, but then shortly after his pet goldfish died so he decided to become evil.

Didn't part one of the manga say that Kabuto was adopted by some people in the Leaf? So maybe he's suffering from parental abandonment and inferiority/superiority complexes. But I agree hopefully these will be adressed before he finally gets killed.

[Alchemist007]

I still can't believe he's still around. I remember when he first showed up in the series I was like "this punk ain't gonna last." Goddamnit.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

It's true we haven't been given a well-defined pivotal moment in Kabuto's life that explains why he's evil, but it seems pretty likely that his motivations are For Science. He's a medical and scientific genius, but lacking when it comes to natural abilities, so he used his research to take them.

he's no different from aizen then, save for the world domination part.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Mateus

Didn't part one of the manga say that Kabuto was adopted by some people in the Leaf? So maybe he's suffering from parental abandonment and inferiority/superiority complexes. But I agree hopefully these will be adressed before he finally gets killed.

Don't forget that at some point he was Sasori's subordinate and Sasori mind-controlled him until Orochimaru broke that mind control. For Kabuto Orochimaru was the one that liberated him and probably Kabuto thinks that Orochimaru was the only one who acknoledged him, had some sort of respect for him. So i guess for Kabuto Orochi was like a father, that's why he had that deep respect. Later on he met Naruto, and as usual, Naruto changed him. While under Orochimaru he was still just a servant, but he was a servant who chose to be a servant as opposed to the case when Sasori mind-controlled him, so Orochi gave him the false feeling of freedom, but in reality he was the only one in the world who was completely under Orochi's influence despite his high level of intelligence. The big change was that he realized he can do better than just being a servant, he inherited Orochi's dreams, but now these are just parts of his own goals. We can say that Naruto liberated him mentally and Sasuke physically And now we learned that Kabuto had great potential as "evil scientist" but that potential couldn't be achieved until his mind was not set free.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Don't forget that at some point he was Sasori's subordinate and Sasuke mind-controlled him until Orochimaru broke that mind control. For Kabuto Orochimaru was the one that liberated him and probably Kabuto thinks that Orochimaru was the only one who acknoledged him, had some sort of respect for him. So i guess for Kabuto Orochi was like a father, that's why he had that deep respect. Later on he met Naruto, and as usual, Naruto changed him. While under Orochimaru he was still just a servant, but he was a servant who chose to be a servant as opposed to the case when Sasori mind-controlled him, so Orochi gave him the false feeling of freedom, but in reality he was the only one in the world who was completely under Orochi's influence despite his high level of intelligence. The big change was that he realized he can do better than just being a servant, he inherited Orochi's dreams, but now these are just parts of his own goals. We can say that Naruto liberated him mentally and Sasuke physically And now we learned that Kabuto had great potential as "evil scientist" but that potential couldn't be achieved until his mind was not set free.

You mean when Sasuke showed Kabuto how he beat Oro with genjutsu? mind control would be controlling a person or changing their thoughts.

If Kabuto got so strong from implanting Oro's flesh then maybe Oro could have put his DNA into the sound 4 which could have made them strong enough to beat the rookies and deliver Sasuke to him in time.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by TimeMask

You mean when Sasuke showed Kabuto how he beat Oro with genjutsu? mind control would be controlling a person or changing their thoughts.

Misspelled there, i mean Sasori. Like those 2 sand guys who were used as puppets by Itachi and Kisame. So Kabuto survived some really bad things done to him. For all what happened to him he probably blames the ninja system, but unlike Nagato he doesn't want to create a better world, instead he probably grew up to think that people are simply there to be used for his own selfish purposes. I don't even know if he will change by his death or before that, i mean Orochimaru never changed, he died as evil as he was. But if Kabuto is meant to be more than just a powered up Orochimaru then maybe he will have some sort of change before he dies. He was already influenced by Naruto once (unlike Orochimaru or Tobi), so maybe Naruto can have some more influence on him eventually.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Misspelled there, i mean Sasori. Like those 2 sand guys who were used as puppets by Itachi and Kisame. So Kabuto survived some really bad things done to him. For all what happened to him he probably blames the ninja system, but unlike Nagato he doesn't want to create a better world, instead he probably grew up to think that people are simply there to be used for his own selfish purposes. I don't even know if he will change by his death or before that, i mean Orochimaru never changed, he died as evil as he was. But if Kabuto is meant to be more than just a powered up Orochimaru then maybe he will have some sort of change before he dies. He was already influenced by Naruto once (unlike Orochimaru or Tobi), so maybe Naruto can have some more influence on him eventually.

Yeah Kabuto does have a hard past with everyone in his village getting killed and him being mind controlled so he does have a reason for why he's a villain but not many fans seem to remember his past.

I don't see Naruto even talking to Kabuto again since the magic eye brothers will probably take him down unless Kabuto runs away like the snake thing he is.

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by TimeMask

Yeah Kabuto does have a hard past with everyone in his village getting killed and him being mind controlled so he does have a reason for why he's a villain but not many fans seem to remember his past.

I don't see Naruto even talking to Kabuto again since the magic eye brothers will probably take him down unless Kabuto runs away like the snake thing he is.

When exactly was the last time Naruto and Kabuto spoke, I wanna say maybe the Sannin fight during Part One...but I can't remember..

[HasuMasu]

^ The last time was in Pat II right after Kabuto starts mutating into snake-man.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by TimeMask

but not many fans seem to remember his past.

My problem with Kabuto suddenly becoming the evil boss he is now is that there was no proper build-up. No flashbacks, no screen-time, almost nothing about Kabuto. In part 1 he meets team 7 in the forest of death, then he fights even Tsunade, so we knew he had the ability to become a great ninja, i mean evil ninja. When he healed Hinata i was even thinking that maybe he is some kind of spy, or has some plan. Because there were hints about that, like when Kakashi asks him if he wanted to kill Sasuke, or Orochimaru questions his loyalty. We didn't really know anything about him, but it was promising that he was a boy found on the battlefield and raised by konoha ninja, but then he ended up with Orochi, so it seemed he can have a really interesting story and motivations. But then nothing, Kabuto was forgotten by the author, not even half a chapter about him, whenever we saw him he was just a side character who is Orochi's servant and doesn't really have his own way of thinking. Sasuke didn't even bother to kill him after he absorbed Orochimaru, and since Sasuke was with him for 3 years we could assume that he would know if Kabuto was a threat like Orochimaru.

The one who should be most hated by Kabuto is Kishimoto
I mean no matter how strong Kabuto becomes Kishimoto always uses him only as a plot device, never gives him a real story. What a sad existence