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FlareKnight · 2012-09-20, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazer-X

Interesting. Definitely provides a bit more insight into Zeheart's character than the shorten version in the anime. Within the context of being human, what Zeheart says about wanting a family makes more sense since as a "warrior", he does not have time for civilian life.

Also, the confession that Zeheart was always as unresolved as Asemu and only coax himself into fighting for Ezelcant is a very nice touch. It brings dramatic irony to their relationship throughout Gen 2, as Zeheart was basically in the same position as Asemu, with Ezelcant being his "Flit". From that perspective, Zeheart can be considered a what-if of Asemu if he didn't discover his own purpose and formulate his own ideas.

Which is really a shame. If these points have been brought up in the anime, and sooner, Zeheart could have been an interesting and complex character. Here, he is just a shell, bearing some characteristics of a complex villain that end up seeming just all over the place.

Yeah, think adding those extra lines would have made the scene much more solid.

In the end both of them would have been happier just staying the way they were before racing out into the battlefield. Pushing themselves to fight in order to prove themselves to someone. In the end Asemu broke off from what Flit expected off him and came this far with his own beliefs and goals. Even though Zeheart questioned Ezelcant he got sucked in once more and was destroyed. Definitely could have been Asemu in this situation if he'd just continued to stay the way he had been. Thanks to Woolf was able to stop worrying about not being an X-Rounder and found his own reason to fight.

A good job to Asemu for finding his way and stopping his friend at the end. Of course he'll always be 'that guy who isn't an X-Rounder'

.

gundamdrawer · 2012-09-20, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Yeah, think adding those extra lines would have made the scene much more solid.

In the end both of them would have been happier just staying the way they were before racing out into the battlefield. Pushing themselves to fight in order to prove themselves to someone. In the end Asemu broke off from what Flit expected off him and came this far with his own beliefs and goals. Even though Zeheart questioned Ezelcant he got sucked in once more and was destroyed. Definitely could have been Asemu in this situation if he'd just continued to stay the way he had been. Thanks to Woolf was able to stop worrying about not being an X-Rounder and found his own reason to fight.

A good job to Asemu for finding his way and stopping his friend at the end. Of course he'll always be 'that guy who isn't an X-Rounder'

.

the non x rounder guy who stalemates and defeats powerful x-rounders

after the events of gen 2, the only episodes that I look forward to are episodes with Asemu on it.

Roloko vi Britannia · 2012-09-20, 10:16

I cried when Zeheart and Obright died. I really loved them, but not as much as Asemu easily the best character in this series for me. <3

9/10

Revolutionist · 2012-09-20, 12:53

I only watched the episode once, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Zeheart goes out alone intending to take on the three Gundams. He does the open eye thing but doesn't get the bits out. Asemu then takes him on and they have a 1v1 that lasts like 10 seconds. There's a question somewhere in there about why he sacrificed his own people, to which Zeheart responds that he's given up human emotions a while back, then when Asemu brings up what Zeheart said at the end of Gen 2 about Eden being a place where people can be human, Zeheart goes into Rey-like shock, which allows Asemu to cut off his arm. Then he has a flashback to that green field Ezelcant showed him and Kio. THen right after that Asemu completely disables Legilis

I don't know guys, that seems pretty bad to me.

overloard · 2012-09-20, 13:10

It's disappointing, yes, but what's the alternative? Super Pilot takes on fully sane and battle-ready Zeheart and wins despite huge difference in machine spec because he just that awesome? Imo if writers wanted to have Zeheart defeated and killed anyway better do it this way than hyping Asemu even more, like what happened in the end of gen 2, with his him being unreadable to X-rounders and stuff.

FlareKnight · 2012-09-20, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by gundamdrawer

the non x rounder guy who stalemates and defeats powerful x-rounders

after the events of gen 2, the only episodes that I look forward to are episodes with Asemu on it.

I'm completely with you there. Probably one of the few characters I really like coming out of this series. Did a good job proving what you can do with skill

.

arkxkra · 2012-09-20, 14:17

although already experience in other Gundam series, but so many death in same episode still very sad, especially Fram

.

The battle between Asemu and Zeheard too short, need longer epic battle between the old friend! and never expect Zeheart to be dead so quickly, is like he going out for suicide, he not suit to be villain, too kind for that, but still can't forgive him cause he sacrifice Fram

Unexpected act by Mr. Obright, 1 take down 2 then finally RIP, can go to find his love one. Salute to him !

Kio should open the burst mode all the way, wonder next episode got chance to see him using the burst mode vs the final enemy. but looking at the preview, it look like AgeFx get headshot. Age-1 gg.com, so left Age-2

Goodbye to Diva as well.

Super Pilot Pirate · 2012-09-20, 16:31

From explanation of Zeheart's frame of mind after the La Gramis and Failing for Video Game Spoliers:

Quote:

Asemu duels with him and Zeheart loses, Zeheart dies (this seems fitting because official sources say Zeheart killed his own people to sank Diva, and if Zeheart has sank so low to kill his own people for Project Eden he may as well die as that means his character has already lost what he originally stood for)

Araxiel · 2012-09-20, 16:56

Obright, you complete and utter boss. You have earned your seat in Gundam Valhalla.

Revolutionist · 2012-09-20, 18:14

I wish Fram had shined more before dying. She cut that Abyss team guy in half with her Ribbon, but that's not enough. She should've done the same to Obright, not get wounded by him.

At least she had that moment with Zeheart, and the weirdo died before she did though. There's some consolation for me in that

Btw, anyone else annoyed by how Gundam treats female pilots?I am sick of it myself.

Arisa had so much potential, and the fact that she was voiced by the same seiyuu that did Kallen in Code Geass and ended up being so fracking useless was so infuriating.

Girard was alright, but again, lots of wasted potential. She was discarded as fast as she was introduced.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2012-09-20, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Btw, anyone else annoyed by how Gundam treats female pilots?I am sick of it myself.

You mean aside from the fact that the main heroine (Female love interests) were just baby makers?

X207 · 2012-09-20, 19:52

very few female pilots do survive. the only one i can name off the top of my head is Cagalli Atha from seed and probably 1-2 female pilots from the Victory series. i do remember one went crazy and was left alive with few remaining memories. theres Loiuse Halevy also but thats as many as i can name atm.

Fram, Anew returner, Lala, Puru 2 were some of those pilots who i wish didnt die. i i liked their characters alot.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2012-09-20, 20:28

The point is that the majority of the women in AGE served almost NO purpose at all.

Renai is probably the best example. A woman who 1-2 episodes to herself and served absolutely no purpose to the plot.

Aquaman OS · 2012-09-21, 01:36

Age was just awful with female characters in general. They either existed to die to make a male character sad, existed to be a wife to give birth to another Asuno, then vanish from the plot (Emily and Romary were in what 2 episodes following their arcs conclusion), or were just side characters that could have been ignored.

Then again....Age was just terrible with characters in general. Since only the 3 Asuno's and Zeheart (and to a lesser extent Woolf and Millas) were prominant in more than one generation, it failed to establish a known supporting cast. None of them ever got to do anything memorable, so it looks like the world consists of only 4 characters. The entire 2nd gen supporting cast just vanished, never to be mentioned again. At least the 1st gen guys sort of got closure, except for Millias who vanished (apparantly she died in a side story or something) after gen 2. And said closure was pretty much always death.

And aside from Woolf everyone who didn't pilot a Gundam might as well not have been there. Largan did nothing, Obright in gen 2 and Max and Arisa did nothing, and for most of gen 3 neither did Seric's group. They only really got to do stuff during the final battle, and probably only because they were all going to die so the staff tried to make us care that the were.

So yes, more fail from Age for it's poor writing and failed generation gimmick that just crippled the story.

But otherwise Gundam wasn't going too bad female wise. 00, Seed, Destiny, Turn A all had a few female pilots, and keep their deaths to a minimum, usually only one per show.

FlareKnight · 2012-09-21, 08:45

I have to agree that the female characters didn't have a great ride in Age. Few had legitimate effects on the story. What was Wendy seriously doing in this series? Needed as a babysitter for kids who didn't need to be on the Diva? Though I'd say Romary at least had a bit more value than that. Though maybe only to tie into the theme of Asemu's generation which was making his life increasing miserable

. Sure, she was there to make him jealous and think she more into Zeheart, but at least it tied into Asemu's story.

But in the end Flit really is the only guy important in all 3 generations. The only guy really who manages to escape generation 1, well technically Emily is still alive but haven't seen her lately enough to confirm

.

Guess a major problem with the generation system is either you kill off too many characters, make too many vanish for no reason, or have to kill people. Each generation just adds a ton of new bodies.

Znozzy · 2012-09-21, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Guess a major problem with the generation system is either you kill off too many characters, make too many vanish for no reason, or have to kill people. Each generation just adds a ton of new bodies.

Honestly there is nothing wrong with the generation concept itself, its just that AGE's writing is shit. Instead of reusing young characters from Gen 2 in Gen 3 the only ones we got was Obright on the DIVA for example. They couldve kept Arisa, Max and so on, hell, most of the crew in Gen 1 wouldnt be too old for Gen 2.

Example transition from Gen 1 to Gen 2:
Old Gen 1 crew waves farewell to the new Gen 2 crew with a few Gen 1's staying, Vargas waving off Dique for example, after they finished their training (leaving the story to the new generation, perfect! or have the old generation train the new one as some sort of montage at the end of each generation)

And not replace 95% of the cast with characters we dont care about.

It would give the characters more depth, hell, we might even remember their names even without any detailed development.

Destined_Fate · 2012-09-21, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

The point is that the majority of the women in AGE served almost NO purpose at all.

Renai is probably the best example. A woman who 1-2 episodes to herself and served absolutely no purpose to the plot.

Some viewers just want eyecandy lying around looking pretty.

Se7en Sabers · 2012-09-22, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Some viewers just want eyecandy lying around looking pretty.

Sure, who doesn't ?

But the women in AGE don't have a lot of screen time either... So, eyecandy or not, we aren't quiet the winner after all

mechalord · 2012-09-22, 08:38

Yeah, pretty disappointing. The women in this theory weren't even good enough to be damsels in distress or get the heroes in deep trouble. That one traitor girl sort of got them into hot water but she got taken out fast.

Audrey Burn... where are you?

The problem wasn't so much the generational gimmick... it was the reused character types, and the formulaic nature of each character arc, and the lack of follow up.

We never really see Flit interact with his wife or his family. We never find out what happens to some supporting characters from the previous story arcs.

A lot of time is spent just focusing on the main character talking to himself or spazzing out.

What's with the one episode ace? Girard Spriggan... no point to her character. She was totally disposable. They could have used her screen time to follow up on old characters or to give some supporting characters some development.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2012-09-22, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Some viewers just want eyecandy lying around looking pretty.

Oh you sick sick sick man

I mean she's 14 and you consider her eyecandy? We have places for people like you. It's called Jail *Calls Police over to Destined_fate's house*

Quote:

We never really see Flit interact with his wife or his family. We never find out what happens to some supporting characters from the previous story arcs.

A lot of time is spent just focusing on the main character talking to himself or spazzing out.

Part of me wonders if it would've been better had they kept Flit as the main character throughout the entire series and thus focused a lot more on his interactions with his family (But still give the new gundams to the kids).

That at least would remain consistent throughout the series.

View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 48
10 out of 10: Near Perfect...	13	22.03%
9 out of 10: Excellent...	13	22.03%
8 out of 10: Very Good...	8	13.56%
7 out of 10: Good...	9	15.25%
6 out of 10: Average...	4	6.78%
5 out of 10: Below Average...	5	8.47%
4 out of 10: Poor...	0	0%
3 out of 10: Bad...	1	1.69%
2 out of 10: Very Bad...	3	5.08%
1 out of 10: Torturous...	3	5.08%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

2012-09-20, 10:16	Link #123
Roloko vi Britannia The Dark Empress Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Battleship Hyperion Age: 33	I cried when Zeheart and Obright died. I really loved them, but not as much as Asemu easily the best character in this series for me. <3 9/10 __________________

2012-09-20, 12:53	Link #124
Revolutionist Puppet Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Behind You	I only watched the episode once, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Zeheart goes out alone intending to take on the three Gundams. He does the open eye thing but doesn't get the bits out. Asemu then takes him on and they have a 1v1 that lasts like 10 seconds. There's a question somewhere in there about why he sacrificed his own people, to which Zeheart responds that he's given up human emotions a while back, then when Asemu brings up what Zeheart said at the end of Gen 2 about Eden being a place where people can be human, Zeheart goes into Rey-like shock, which allows Asemu to cut off his arm. Then he has a flashback to that green field Ezelcant showed him and Kio. THen right after that Asemu completely disables Legilis I don't know guys, that seems pretty bad to me. __________________ I cannot give you back your homes, or restore your dead to life, but perhaps I can give you justice, in the name of our King. ~ Ned Stark

2012-09-20, 14:17	Link #127
arkxkra 全力全開 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Non-management 97th world	although already experience in other Gundam series, but so many death in same episode still very sad, especially Fram . The battle between Asemu and Zeheard too short, need longer epic battle between the old friend! and never expect Zeheart to be dead so quickly, is like he going out for suicide, he not suit to be villain, too kind for that, but still can't forgive him cause he sacrifice Fram Unexpected act by Mr. Obright, 1 take down 2 then finally RIP, can go to find his love one. Salute to him ! Kio should open the burst mode all the way, wonder next episode got chance to see him using the burst mode vs the final enemy. but looking at the preview, it look like AgeFx get headshot. Age-1 gg.com, so left Age-2 Goodbye to Diva as well. __________________ \| Anime Series' Window XP/7 Theme \|

2012-09-20, 16:56	Link #129
Araxiel Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cambridge	Obright, you complete and utter boss. You have earned your seat in Gundam Valhalla. __________________ GBF roleplay

2012-09-20, 13:10	Link #125
overloard Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Russia	It's disappointing, yes, but what's the alternative? Super Pilot takes on fully sane and battle-ready Zeheart and wins despite huge difference in machine spec because he just that awesome? Imo if writers wanted to have Zeheart defeated and killed anyway better do it this way than hyping Asemu even more, like what happened in the end of gen 2, with his him being unreadable to X-rounders and stuff.

2012-09-20, 18:14	Link #130
Revolutionist Puppet Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Behind You	I wish Fram had shined more before dying. She cut that Abyss team guy in half with her Ribbon, but that's not enough. She should've done the same to Obright, not get wounded by him. At least she had that moment with Zeheart, and the weirdo died before she did though. There's some consolation for me in that Btw, anyone else annoyed by how Gundam treats female pilots?I am sick of it myself. Arisa had so much potential, and the fact that she was voiced by the same seiyuu that did Kallen in Code Geass and ended up being so fracking useless was so infuriating. Girard was alright, but again, lots of wasted potential. She was discarded as fast as she was introduced. __________________ I cannot give you back your homes, or restore your dead to life, but perhaps I can give you justice, in the name of our King. ~ Ned Stark

2012-09-20, 19:52	Link #132
X207 Gamyūsa Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Montreal	very few female pilots do survive. the only one i can name off the top of my head is Cagalli Atha from seed and probably 1-2 female pilots from the Victory series. i do remember one went crazy and was left alive with few remaining memories. theres Loiuse Halevy also but thats as many as i can name atm. Fram, Anew returner, Lala, Puru 2 were some of those pilots who i wish didnt die. i i liked their characters alot.

2012-09-20, 20:28	Link #133
SoldierOfDarkness The Dark Knight Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think? Age: 38	The point is that the majority of the women in AGE served almost NO purpose at all. Renai is probably the best example. A woman who 1-2 episodes to herself and served absolutely no purpose to the plot.

2012-09-21, 01:36	Link #134
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Age was just awful with female characters in general. They either existed to die to make a male character sad, existed to be a wife to give birth to another Asuno, then vanish from the plot (Emily and Romary were in what 2 episodes following their arcs conclusion), or were just side characters that could have been ignored. Then again....Age was just terrible with characters in general. Since only the 3 Asuno's and Zeheart (and to a lesser extent Woolf and Millas) were prominant in more than one generation, it failed to establish a known supporting cast. None of them ever got to do anything memorable, so it looks like the world consists of only 4 characters. The entire 2nd gen supporting cast just vanished, never to be mentioned again. At least the 1st gen guys sort of got closure, except for Millias who vanished (apparantly she died in a side story or something) after gen 2. And said closure was pretty much always death. And aside from Woolf everyone who didn't pilot a Gundam might as well not have been there. Largan did nothing, Obright in gen 2 and Max and Arisa did nothing, and for most of gen 3 neither did Seric's group. They only really got to do stuff during the final battle, and probably only because they were all going to die so the staff tried to make us care that the were. So yes, more fail from Age for it's poor writing and failed generation gimmick that just crippled the story. But otherwise Gundam wasn't going too bad female wise. 00, Seed, Destiny, Turn A all had a few female pilots, and keep their deaths to a minimum, usually only one per show.

2012-09-21, 08:45	Link #135
FlareKnight User of the "Fast Draw" Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada	I have to agree that the female characters didn't have a great ride in Age. Few had legitimate effects on the story. What was Wendy seriously doing in this series? Needed as a babysitter for kids who didn't need to be on the Diva? Though I'd say Romary at least had a bit more value than that. Though maybe only to tie into the theme of Asemu's generation which was making his life increasing miserable . Sure, she was there to make him jealous and think she more into Zeheart, but at least it tied into Asemu's story. But in the end Flit really is the only guy important in all 3 generations. The only guy really who manages to escape generation 1, well technically Emily is still alive but haven't seen her lately enough to confirm . Guess a major problem with the generation system is either you kill off too many characters, make too many vanish for no reason, or have to kill people. Each generation just adds a ton of new bodies. __________________ Anime-Evo

2012-09-22, 08:38	Link #139
mechalord Deploying Funnel Cakes Join Date: Jan 2008	Yeah, pretty disappointing. The women in this theory weren't even good enough to be damsels in distress or get the heroes in deep trouble. That one traitor girl sort of got them into hot water but she got taken out fast. Audrey Burn... where are you? The problem wasn't so much the generational gimmick... it was the reused character types, and the formulaic nature of each character arc, and the lack of follow up. We never really see Flit interact with his wife or his family. We never find out what happens to some supporting characters from the previous story arcs. A lot of time is spent just focusing on the main character talking to himself or spazzing out. What's with the one episode ace? Girard Spriggan... no point to her character. She was totally disposable. They could have used her screen time to follow up on old characters or to give some supporting characters some development.