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Old 2022-01-08, 19:54   Link #34801
Void
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Join Date: Oct 2009
There's also Kama who is categorized as both male and female because is a male god in the body of a female human (Sakura).
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Old 2022-01-09, 04:26   Link #34802
belatkuro
Kuro-chan
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Case Files rerun on the 12th. Plus episode has a new written part like in CCC rerun. Also a new 4 star Servant. Faker Hephaestion is now a Pretender.
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Old 2022-01-09, 05:07   Link #34803
Sheba
Must Bury Qiqi
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat
Age: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Qin doesn't have a gender in the same sense that Ultimate Kars from Jojo doesn't. The whole "Ultimate Being" thing means they aren't male or female iirc.
Sex = USELESS
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Old 2022-01-12, 05:19   Link #34804
belatkuro
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Got Reines to NP2 from 10 tickets. Got Faker from 30 quartz. She's a permanent unit but I still wanted to get a Pretender.
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Old 2022-01-12, 16:18   Link #34805
FlameSparkZ
紅い矢は茨の如く
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Portugal
Same. Got Reines with 10 tickets and then Faker took another 10 tickets and 30 quartz.
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Old 2022-01-13, 05:06   Link #34806
Nachtwandler
Yurifag
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kharkiv, Ukraine
Age: 33
No Faker for me. Only got just another copy of Liz which I don't need.
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Old 2022-01-19, 04:19   Link #34807
FlameSparkZ
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Location: Portugal
Pure Prisms have been added to FGO. You can exchange them for mats at Da Vinci's shop.

This helps so much! Especially with bronze mats that are such a pain to farm but get used up fast
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Old 2022-01-19, 12:56   Link #34808
Void
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Faker's true name is
Spoiler for spoiler:


Clever, DW.
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Old 2022-01-20, 06:53   Link #34809
AC-Phoenix
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Excuse me? The Mystic Code was on Jason from the beginning to cover up the fact that he was almost dead from the fights before we met him. He has it on the entire time.

The whole point of that reveal was to hammer home that Jason had essentially been a dead man walking from the start but still managed to get back on his feet.
That's not how the story made it appear at all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post

Heracles was alive the first time the Argonauts found Hephaestus, and him being able to oppose Artemis was never even considered. And the fact that Hephaestus was able to analyze Achilles without meeting him means Hephaestus would have been able to detect if Herc could oppose her, so the fact that it was never mentioned
No one thought about going up against Artemis at that point period. Only Caldea has actually thought about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
And the machine explicitly did calculate a variable that was already gone when it went into detail on its original plan for Achilles after they found out his heel was shot.
Difference: Achilles was still alive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
What are you talking about? Medea Lily is explicitly acknowledged as one of the top ten mages in human history and kills Demon Gods to use as pancake mix. Atlante would have had zero problems against the other gods or their forces as well, for that matter.
And Adult Medea even more so, which was my point.
Also I never doubted Atalante's ability, I doubted her devotion to the cause. Kitty Archer betrayed us before, and no, it's irrelevant that she was a Berserker at that point, as she is still the same Servant, especially non FGO wise. Now, Imagine what would have happened if Artemis Avatar had come down to meet Atalante instead of Orion.
She may be a good fit for Koyans, but is a really BAD one for this Losbelt.



Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post

The source is "Orion one-shots a buffed version of an enemy Herc explicitly struggled with".
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Again, the source is "Orion punches an enemy Herc struggled with once and it dies". And also Artemis Nano explicitly comparing his physical strength to that of a God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Wut? The one who fought the Cerberus was the living version of Herc, who was stronger than either version of Servant Herc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Cerberus and Caenis say otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
And he didn't have squat for help with the first Cerberus because he literally killed it instantly. He had "help" with the one that then jumped him in the form of Nemo knocking it off his arm with a torpedo, but that was it.

Ad Cerberus:
Not applicable at all.
First of all, we are again back to the point that Herc wasn't out to Kill his opponent, while Orion was. Killing something with a strong blow against a physical weakpoint is comparingly easy, ton wrestle something into submission, as in the latter case, the thing you try to wrestle actually has a chance to fight beck.

Also, he only killed one of them instantly, and that was also charging at him, the other one he had to fight first. i.E. his attack actually got stronger due to the speed the Cerberus had built up.

Putting aside, that the Cerberus got hit literally at it's most perilous weak point, all it took is skill to hit him there (In that case not even that much, as he just bashed in his brain.), which I never doubted he had.

Ad Ceanis:
Actually, the only reason he could hurt Ceanis, was that he had Poseidon's heart. Which wasn't even something he had thought of himself, but it was either Jason or again Caldea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Uh, no, this is a stupid anime cliche that has no reflection in reality.
See above. Also to knock someone out without killing them, you need to either completely exhaust them, or hit non-leathal spots with just the right amount of strength. One such spot is the solarplexus, which can also turn out fatal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
No it wasn't. Orion states that his reason for shooting her is that even if she isn't his Artemis, she's still Artemis at her core and she doesn't belong in the sky alone. His entire internal monologue and the Ortygia Amore Mio NP scene spell that out word for word. Hephaestus even asks him if the reason he's doing this is revenge or punishment and Orion denies it.
After which he says he is doing it because she is calling herself Artemis while being like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
His "help" with Caenis was a "you're not invincible" button and nothing else. He took a Divine Spirit in single combat and beat her half to death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
That's explicitly contested by Achilles, who admits that even without his heel busted he couldn't have actually taken on Artemis.
That was achilles take on it, not Hephaestus'. Greek heroes have wounded gods all over greek mythology. Diomedes for example hurt Aphrodite while she tried rescuing her son during the Tojan War.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
And that phrase is never used. Jason says Herc totally would have beated the Cerbeerus if he'd fought him, but Jason believes Herc could take Zeus in a one v one.
It was used in the English version, translated, by hopefully professional, translators. I give you that the same translators also translated Arthoria as Altria despite knowing better though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Uh, what? He can call on it freely even when the actual goddess is in the LB trying to kill him. And Artemis Agnos isn't a twelve layered invincibility shield, its a power steroid.
That is because Artemins (Pan-Human) can probably influence the Losbelt to a certain degree. At least enough to buff Orion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Herc was buffed to hell from the start and the casters were explicitly surprised he survived a single shot. The first one took his entire God Hand and the second killed him completely.
Putting aside, that said casters probably were Medea and Asclepius, neither of them really had a way to compare his strength to that of a god.
Other Casters such as Sheba or Tamamo would be far better sources here. Then again, 3 Tails Tamamo's buffs would probably work better against Artemis to begin with, as the Witchcraft skill can bypass magic resistance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
We literally kill Herc in Oceanos by bypassing God Hand completely.
With a rather special, creator-god-cursed box, that is also a divine construct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
It does, however, lock Herc into close range combat.
Until you give him a bow. Yes, he might spawn without Hera's bow, but that doesn't mean that he can't use bows period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
You really, really don't want to try to use "it's Gil" in defense of FSN Gil's competence. Literally every time he's beaten its because he misjudges his enemies strength.
Generally fair enough, but Gil was seriously surprised that someone with a divinity as high as Hercules' could actually break it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Watch Heavens Feel. Arturia Alter (who is literally just Arturia instead of an alternate version like in FGO) trashes him 1 v 1, up to an including physically overpowering him with her bare hands.
You do remember that all of Sakura's Servants had boosts way beyond what they would normally have even with the best-master +renown combos though, right?

Ilya is also not exactly the smartest of Masters, the smart move here would have been forsaking Madness Enhancement and give Herc 100% thinking power. The same fight would have gone very differently with a proper master, the same way it went way differently when Medusa finally got rid of Shinji as her Master.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Also, Caliburn was never stronger than Excalibur at any point in the lore. Caliburn is the weapon Arturia broke by being too strong.
Caliburn didn't simply break because Artoria was too strong, that was part of it, yes, the other part was a certain behavior of her's that Caliburn didn't like.

And while it is, unlike Excalibur, not unbreakable, it still had the same power output as the former, while combining (most of) Excalibur's and Avalon's properties in one item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
If Arturia was summoned Artemis being an alien probably would have been enough to unseal Excalibur at which point she could just ignore her completely and shoot through the planet to kill Olympus
Divine Construct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
"The level of half a Divine Spirit", as in she's not a Divine Spirit at all she just got halfway there by being really good at killing stuff. And no, they didn't. Scathach says she kills Divine Spirits, not that she is one.
Pretty sure someone said otherwise. In the end it doesn't really matter though, as she still has an Anti-Divine skill due to having killed gods before.

Almost the same as Mordred vs Siegfried, where I can tell you that Siegfried would have blasted through her, due to Mordred's Dragon attribute... Not to mention that he is smarter too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
No, he wouldn't, and no, it isn't. Artemis explicitly fired at them twice and killed a buffed Herc with those two shots.
Because the shots actually managed to reach him, which wouldn't have been the case if he had had a ranged weapon to counter-fire, as seen with Orion. If the same shots had reached Orion, Orion would have been obliterated - no questions asked.

That aside, since we can get a pretty good idea about who the casters were, we don't even know how strong those buffs were, or if they were helping at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
That is in fact exactly what a BP is, as described by Emiya and by Nasu's description of the technique. By overloading the NP to the point of destroying it Emiya can forcibly raise the rank of the NP by one level. That's all it does.
Which is more than enough if said noble phantasm is, again, a divine construct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
And the fact that the first shot was needed to destory the defenses at all is my point. Orion Orkhos, the NP used for those two shots, is explicitly able to ignore any and all defenses....and Machine God Artemis didn't care and still blocked the first shot basically with her face. If he hadn't been using that NP the arrow would likely have bounced off.
And yet, said NP was incented at the spot. Again, Greek heroes have hurt and fought gods all over the place. The Olympians were never described as omnipotent or immortal to begin with either.
Yes, you needed some divinity of your own, which was however rather relative as almost all Greek heroes claim to have some, at least ancient, blood relation to the gods.


---

I somehow managed to draw Beni - Maybe Koijiro will someday get his duel now
I really don't like the Amazoness Event. I don't even mind the part where my Servants get put to rest for some time, what I do mind though is that 99% of my AP are rotting due to each delivery only costing 1AP.

At the same time the game is telling me to use 6 Servant,s forcing me to use at least 3, when each of those deliveries can be done with a single AOE servant.

E: also Ishtar, now I'm just lacking Eresh.
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Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.

Last edited by AC-Phoenix; 2022-01-20 at 08:59.
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Old 2022-01-20, 10:51   Link #34810
XFire
150% done
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
That's not how the story made it appear at all.
They literally spell out that he's been a dead man walking from the start

I'm going to put the rest in a spoiler, as it's largely just more back and forth that doesn't really matter to the crux of our argument anyway.

Spoiler for length:



In the end this is largely all irrelevant, though, because of the factor of Hephaestus having known about Herc and never once considering him for opposition to Artemis.

Heracles just flat-out isn't capable and was never once implied to be capable of opposing Artemis. Orion is a fucking Grand Servant who explicitly has more raw strength than Herc and a Noble Phantasm uniquely suited for attacking Artemis...and still needed massive support and backup to stand a chance.

There were at least two different times during the arrow duel that someone else (Hector, Mandricardo) had to step in to stop an arrow to buy Orion more time, and Paris had to give him another arrow forged from himself, and then Orion had to draw on all of those factors plus his own connection to Artemis to create Ortygia Amore Tri-Star to actually win.

Herc had none of those things and even if you gave him the bow and arrows, he lacks the Noble Phantasm to pierce her defenses, the allies capable of diverting other shots, the physical strength to survive that number of shots (don't say God Hand we already established Divine Constructs (like the bow) bypass that), and the ability to create something equivalent to Ortygia Amore Tri-star.

Not to mention that even Orion needed to be in a specific spot unmolested for the entire time to carry out the duel, which required beating back Odysseus and the new Echidna, which means Herc likely wouldn't have ever had the chance to try it.
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Old 2022-01-20, 15:19   Link #34811
Void
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You two are still at it?
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Old 2022-01-20, 18:40   Link #34812
XFire
150% done
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Void View Post
You two are still at it?
We took a break so he could farm for the New Years event

I'll be stuffing my responses in spoiler tags to keep them from taking up half a page going forward though
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Old 2022-01-20, 20:11   Link #34813
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
They literally spell out that he's been a dead man walking from the start.
They also spell out that he got the mystic code in tandem with the letter. Just think about it like this: From the moment Jason had actually entered that temple, he would have remembered having said Mystic Code, yet he didn't.

A mystic code isn't exactly something you can sneak onto people in FGO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
You said they wouldn't be useful which is ridiculous when Medea Lily is obscenely powerful on her own, and Atlante only "betrayed" us because we were about to cause the deaths of thousands of children she'd spent months bonding with right in front of her, after she told us earlier that her loyalty was to helping them.
Atalante would betray us the moment anything labeled Artemis would tell her to. And the reason she betrayed us is indeed children, she wanted to save over the several billion ones that get saved when proper human history is restored.
And Adult Medea, who is again more powerful than Lily, got beaten by freaking Rin.

It doesn't even matter that it happened when she was a Servant, and by you weaker than when alive, as Lily would have lost that one too if you make her trade spaces with her adult version. Then again, Lily wouldn't have been as hostile to begin with. Why doesn't it matter: Rin isn't there. Instead the ones there are other Servants and divine spirits.


QUOTE=XFire;6499460]
None of this is correct.

The kill/not kill thing you're talking about doesn't exist and any experienced martial artist you brought that up to would laugh his ass off at the idea.

Cerberus' head is not a weak point, it has two backups if one goes down.

The only reason Orion didn't kill the second one was because it snuck up and actually latched on to him, preventing him from getting a good shot at it.[/quote]

I fully disagree here.
First off, of course it's a weak point it's a freaking brain right behind that skull. The point that they even remarked where he hit him is proof of that, as it would have otherwise been meaningless to even mention it.

That fictional Martial Artist you are talking about, won't laugh long, when he dead. Especially considering how we aren't even talking about a human, but some kind of animal.
Again, most of the places you can use to knock a human out can be very lethal. Not even sure why you deny the solarplexus here, considering how you literally can't breath when hit there, even without the right amount of force to knock you out. And let's not forget about the dozen of cases where securities thinking they could just knock people out cold on their heads, only for them getting charged with 2nd or 3rd degree murder later.

That aside, this isn't even about a human, it's about a freaking animal with sharp claws and teeth. (Also 3 sets of said teeth.)

And again: Herc wrestled it into submission, in both legend and fate. Orion on the other hand killed it. Could herc just have killed it? Of course, he did the same with the Hydra, which has even more heads than a giant 3 headed dog.

Fun enough, the story itself even kinda agrees with me, as Odysseus got killed by an enemy he didn't properly kill, and that fought back.

Also, if you read his profile, you will soon find that any beast type thing just drops dead when orion gets summoned as Grand Archer. That's not particular muscle strength, it's a part of his Grand Graph.

QUOTE=XFire;6499460]
Because Caenis has an invincibility button over water, and it would have worked just the same against Herc as it did Orion. The moment it was gone Orion obliterated her despite her explicitly being comparable to a Divine Spirit even without it.[/quote]

Which is exactly why Orion beating her up wasn't all that special. First off, he had help, second off, Achilles without his heel cut could have done the same, as could herc have, if you gave him the poseidon-heart.
Yes Herc would have lost a few lives, but that is mostly because he literally doesn't give a shit about them until he is down to about half.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
This is objectively wrong and you need to stop talking about "weak points" like people are video game bosses r
Uhm... Please tell me you aren't denying that humans actually have weak spots... Because they do, and it's even represented in how armor developed, especially in the medieval.
Also, the solarplexus is an actual body part, which is indeed a weak point as being hit there can both kill you or knock you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
All you need to knock someone unconscious is to cut off their oxygen or rattle their brain a bit.
Both which can easily be lethal, which was my point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Irrelevant and once again trying to bring in the source myth to use in the Nasuverse. Also Aphrodite would have been a Divine Spirit if that happened, and Machine God Aphrodite is significantly weaker than Machine God Artemis.
Considering that no one denied it having happened, it actually happened during fate's trojan war. Unless you want to deny Diomedes having been there, as that's literally a huge part of his legend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
I don't believe it was, and irregardless it was used in the context of Jason talking about how Herc would have beaten the one Orion fought. Again his reaction was "oh there's one of those here as well" meaning he hadn't seen one in the LB before.
"Here" is relative.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
What it means is that Orion always does and always will have access to it, irregardless of where he is.
Yes, I still don't see how that makes it his power rather than Artemis' though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Medea Lily is more powerful than either of them. Tamamo just flat-out isn't that powerful even in her three tailed form, her curses are only really noteworthy because they can draw on her physical body (i.e. the body of the nine-tailed fox) as a power source. Tamamo Cat manages to use her "ultimate technique" in CCC despite having E-rank in Curses.
The remarkable part is that they ignore magic resistance, something Medea's spells don't.
3 Tails Tamamo is already stronger than most A-Rank servants, if not even S rank, we don't know that as we weren't given the S-Ranked ones power level.

A Ranked ones have a Raw Power of approx 100 though, while 3 Tails Tamamo has 729. And no, Medea isn't S-Ranked.

The even funnier thing here is that we don't even know if that is really her full power at that level, as even her one tailed version has been shown to far exceed the given power level simply by actually using her morph skill. Because unlike in FGO, it's not necessarily a purely defensive skill. More on that later though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post

You said his Spirit Core couldn't shatter before that, in the context of him facing off against the power of Machine God Artemis, whose power vastly exceeds that of a Divine Construct.
I'd like to say fair point, but the Arc of the Covenant is rather special even in that category. Especially in ignoring the lives, something not even Artemis could do, as she still had to obliterate them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Yes it does. Zerker Herc can't use weapons with the same skill he had in life.
Which I never claimed to begin with. I said he can still use them, not that he can use them with the same skill. Two very different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
No, Gil was surprised Herc surpassed his legend and came back again after using up all his labors.
Herc was literally not dead there, as you remarked yourself. The thing he was surprised about is Herc managing to actually break out of the chain.

The reason why he didn't vanish could be several fold btw., as his lives can actually regenerate, and he also has a guts skill.





Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
No to all of that. The Madness Enhancement gave Herc a massive boost in stats meaning without it he would have been even more outmatched, he still retains his capacity to make combat decisions and his skill in HtH combat, and more importantly he was fighting Saber who defeated Kojirou Sasaki in a duel. Same Kojirou who equals Musashi and is the literal epitome of sword skill in the Nasuverse. "Skill" would not have saved him.
It's still not the same he has when ME isn't active. The whole point of it being perma-active is to put less of a strain on Ilya. If you want to bring Kojiro into this btw, Kojiro couldn't have killed him 12 times, and in most arcs, Saber almost loses when fighting Herc, or only gets to fight him with several of his lives gone already.

Especially in fate, where Archer has already taken the majority of them using UBW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Wrong, that's the source myth. Caliburn in Fate was explicitly lost because of Morgan le Fay.
Just that one does not include the other, as the information we got is that she lost it due to a trap set by morgan, in addition to what we already knew.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
No it didn't, it didn't even come close in the original, and that was before Excalibur was retconned into being a literal Death Star superlaser in disguise. And it didn't have any of Avalons properties, it was the one that did the ageless thing and gave that to Excalibur later on.
Again, stated differently in the original VN, Anime, and even on the wiki, which does btw also point it's sources towards the VN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
What? Who cares, it's Excalibur. It one-shotted Sefar, whose power is comparable to that of all the Greek Machine Gods combined.
Fun fact, we don't actually know the machine god's power levels. In fact, we even have something pointing towards them being way stronger than you think, as even Amaterasu lost, who btw outclasses Sefar, lost. For all we know he might have had a special ability.
the power levels we do know (and are still unreliable, due to her not using Morph are:

Sefar, Amaterasu, A Rank Servants, and all tail versions of Tamamo.

It's also noteworthy that the one who actually shot it wasn't Arthoria, but Zeus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Which she did without being a Divine Spirit herself, which was the point.



Mordred doesn't have the Dragon attribute, what are you on about? Actually how are they relevant at all?
No, the point is that she gets advantages against Heroic spirits, much like Siegfried gets against dragons. Also, you are right, FGo forgot to give Mordred her Dragon attribute, which she would have as she is a clone of Arthoria's

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Again, this is wrong. Herc has blocked attacks capable of killing him before with his sword and as long as the attack is broken the energy released will be invalidated by God Hand. We see this happen with Archer's Caladbolg II in FSN.

Meaning even if he'd both had such a weapon and been able to use it....nothing would have changed because he lacks the power necessary to cancel one of the attacks.
It woulds, as in Orion's case, and I wiill word it differently this time, never connected, since Hektor (Of whom we know he is definitely weaker than Herc btw) deflected it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Again, Medea Lily is literally among the strongest Mages to ever live and explicitly surpassed her teacher Circe by the time she left.
And yet, we know that her abilities are more limited than Adult Medea's. Sheba also got kinda tricked, and wasn't even at full power by the time we've met her.



Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Again, spelled out in story that they thought about it and gave up

In the end this is largely all irrelevant, though, because of the factor of Hephaestus having known about Herc and never once considering him for opposition to Artemis.
Putting aside that they probably thought about that before meeting Hephestos to begin with, since Hephestos never mentions that he himself had thought about it before, at the time Hephestos did his calculations, Hercules was, and I will say that again, already completely gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Heracles just flat-out isn't capable and was never once implied to be capable of opposing Artemis. Orion is a fucking Grand Servant who explicitly has more raw strength than Herc and a Noble Phantasm uniquely suited for attacking Artemis...and still needed massive support and backup to stand a chance.
Which still doesn't make him physically stronger, and even if, it would just be because his Grand Glyph is theoretically stronger. Theoretically, because he didn't really do anything noteworthy compared to what we've seen from other Servants, up to the point of shooting Artemis down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
There were at least two different times during the arrow duel that someone else (Hector, Mandricardo) had to step in to stop an arrow to buy Orion more time, and Paris had to give him another arrow forged from himself,
And you think they wouldn't have done the same if the shooter had been herc why exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Herc had none of those things and even if you gave him the bow and arrows, he lacks the Noble Phantasm to pierce her defenses, the allies capable of diverting other shots, the physical strength to survive that number of shots (don't say God Hand we already established Divine Constructs (like the bow) bypass that), and the ability to create something equivalent to Ortygia Amore Tri-star.
Aehm no, we haven't established that at all? We established that the Arc of the Covenant in particular does it, And again, that one is rather special, as it's cursed by god, with a rather particular curse. It's a really special one defying all logic even within the franchise.

Also, knowing Nasu, Herc would have either changed classes all of a sudden, or randomly pull out one of his Archer skills out of his ass, maybe even combine the bow with Athena's bow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Not to mention that even Orion needed to be in a specific spot unmolested for the entire time to carry out the duel, which required beating back Odysseus and the new Echidna, which means Herc likely wouldn't have ever had the chance to try it.
Not sure what makes you assume that, given that everyone and everything was held back by others than Orion himself at that moment. What exactly makes you think they wouldn't have protected Herc?
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Old 2022-01-21, 18:50   Link #34814
XFire
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Spoiler for size:


Spoiler for size

Also, I'm not going to be addressing the Kill/Not kill thing going forward because you're beginning to make me genuinely concerned for your safety around wild animals, and I don't want you to get hurt trying to "prove" me wrong.
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Old 2022-01-21, 18:54   Link #34815
XFire
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Actually, as fun as this has been, we've pretty much hit the limits of this discussion. It did get me to go re-read Atlantis (and yes, Herc dying was the last thing that happened, Jason had the code on the entire time, and Herc was alive when they met Hephaestos) but at this point I don't think it matters.

I get the idea this is mostly an emotional argument from you wanting to see Herc do something cool in FGO again, and I get that, but we're clogging the thread. So you can respond to my comment and then we can both drop it.

Do me a favor and drop it in a spoiler tag for size concerns though.
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