(L) Kaguya-sama wa kokurasetai

[WingedAccelerator]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Do you even know what "mistranslation" is? Akasaka NEVER said Ishigami was "best". Translator did and they were WRONG.

Same goes for Track and Field stuff.

The mistranslation issue was already pointed out.

Technically, he said it. "Best" is present as the wording is "Number One/Best" depending on which you prefer, but there are other alternatives. It's "Ichiban". Literally it's something like "Number One/Best in club at being fast", which turned to "Fastest" in both translations.

Therefore my boring issue remains that it's hard to believe that stories are made about a fast football player in middle school, stories which even the soon-to-be graduating senpais have heard about because it's such a big deal, but it's just about his speed, not technique, not defense, not offense. So any other sports, where it's actually all about speed would have been a better match to the sentence in my opinion.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

The mistranslation issue was already pointed out.

Technically, he said it. "Best" is present as the wording is "Number One/Best" depending on which you prefer, but there are other alternatives. It's "Ichiban". Literally it's something like "Number One/Best in club at being fast", which turned to "Fastest" in both translations.

Therefore my boring issue remains that it's hard to believe that stories are made about a fast football player in middle school, stories which even the soon-to-be graduating senpais have heard about because it's such a big deal, but it's just about his speed, not technique, not defense, not offense. So any other sports, where it's actually all about speed would have been a better match to the sentence in my opinion.

You're really stretching it. Yes, Ichiban most literally translates as "number one", but it only means "best" when there are no qualifiers. If it's used with an adjective, "most" is a much better fit, as in "most fast" or "fastest".

Anyway, what's so odd about a guy like him having heard from Ishigami's former teammates that he was faster than the rest of them? It doesn't have to be a "big deal", just something that the people he knew talked about, and an athletic guy like that who participates in cheering if nothing else would certainly be friends with the soccer team. And honestly it makes far more sense for a sporty guy to have heard from Ishigami's former soccer teammates that he was real fast than for Ishigami to have been the fastest guy in track. The fastest guy on the soccer team is not that special if he doesn't have other talents to back it up, as you yourself recognized. As such, while his friends and a few other people big on soccer might note that he's got good speed, they wouldn't treat him like an ace and he wouldn't be super-popular. On the other hand, the fastest guy on the track team is indeed the absolute number one, the ace of the team. People would know him and be far more likely to admire him, and if he quit his teammates wouldn't just let him go. The fact that even when he was on the team he indicated that his friends consisted pretty much of just the teammates, and he wasn't popular outside before or after leaving, him being on the soccer team makes far more sense. Really, it's feeling more and more like you just want there to be something you can call "bad writing" to justify your distaste with the current story.

That aside, I sort of expected things would go this direction. Ishigami isn't the star of this arc, he's just an instigating factor. The core of the conflict is Miko and Kobachi's relationship. Miko might start dating him soon, but presently he's not what the story's about.

[WingedAccelerator]

I'm not trying to be stretching it or annoy anyone for the matter.

While your explanation is entirely plausible, it was not presented in the manga. Or such an obvious detail completely went over my head. Anyways, I certainly do feel like cracks are showing sometimes when Aka decides to reveal something in hindsight and it just messes with what the present actually showed or suggested. But I don't care about this topic anymore.

I would really like to say that neither Iino nor Osaragi will date Ishigami, and how this chapter cemented that, but actually I think Aka is going for the "winner takes it all" direction, despite choices being made. Not only will Iino be the next Student Council President, Ishigami will be the one that confesses to her, which will make Osaragi accept them, while Iino already fixed their friendship. But of course I'm not rooting for this at all as I made my stance clear.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

I'm not trying to be stretching it or annoy anyone for the matter.

While your explanation is entirely plausible, it was not presented in the manga. Or such an obvious detail completely went over my head. Anyways, I certainly do feel like cracks are showing sometimes when Aka decides to reveal something in hindsight and it just messes with what the present actually showed or suggested. But I don't care about this topic anymore.

I would really like to say that neither Iino nor Osaragi will date Ishigami, and how this chapter cemented that, but actually I think Aka is going for the "winner takes it all" direction, despite choices being made. Not only will Iino be the next Student Council President, Ishigami will be the one that confesses to her, which will make Osaragi accept them, while Iino already fixed their friendship. But of course I'm not rooting for this at all as I made my stance clear.

Well, at the least I hope that it's Miko that does the confessing. You're entitled to your opinion about "cracks showing", but obviously I disagree. It's not perfect, but it's not near that bad. And honestly, I'm not going to say that there are holes or cracks simply because something wasn't explicitly stated straight from the beginning. And just what detail wasn't stated, by the way? It was made quite clear from the get-go that Ishigami was not popular in junior high, and he stated last chapter that when he was in the soccer team that was his circle of friends, meaning he wasn't popular then either. There's no need for Kazeno to spell out that he heard from the soccer team, as the simple fact he said "I heard you were the fastest guy on your team/club" shows that he either hadn't heard or disregarded the other rumors, but instead had heard from someone who knew about his performance in club. True, people didn't go around verbosely stating that he was in the soccer club, but people usually aren't. And while one may have guessed that he was in track, just because it wasn't explicitly stated to be soccer doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him later being revealed as a part of a club that would notice his speed but not treat it as enough on its own to make him an ace.

[WingedAccelerator]

Ishigami shuddered when Kazeno mentioned middle school stories. So it's exactly worded like that to imply it could be quite well-known among students like what he did to Ogino. Since the source is not specified, I have no reason to believe it just a private or friendly information he directly heard from the soccer team, but it is plausible. Thing is, there is no benefit in not revealing Ishigami's club earlier.

Cracks to me form when Aka unnecessarily makes a flashback about something that is perfectly fine without being touched or further elaboration. Did it improve the story that we learned that the setup of Chapter 1 was heavily Miyuki's doing, yet he acted like Kaguya is just A girl worth romancing and not THE girl worth romancing, which turned out was his motivation? To me, it didn't. Or there is the recent flashback of Ishigami-Iino, which mind you, I was not the only one that called it out. No mention of any bonding between the two in middle school prior to it, but now Ishigami was inspired by Iino, not by some random manga. What's worse, despite being perfectly aware what Iino has to endure, he continued to break school rules and give her more annoyance even though he was all about easing her pain from the background. And of course, Osaragi and her POV chapters of past events to further make thing convoluted or questionable to say the least when it comes to how she acted during present events. Let's not forget the new trend of using the Ootomo stuff over and over again in all possible angles just to make a point without Ootomo being actually relevant in all of it.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Ishigami shuddered when Kazeno mentioned middle school stories. So it's exactly worded like that to imply it could be quite well-known among students like what he did to Ogino. Since the source is not specified, I have no reason to believe it just a private or friendly information he directly heard from the soccer team, but it is plausible. Thing is, there is no benefit in not revealing Ishigami's club earlier.

Cracks to me form when Aka unnecessarily makes a flashback about something that is perfectly fine without being touched or further elaboration. Did it improve the story that we learned that the setup of Chapter 1 was heavily Miyuki's doing, yet he acted like Kaguya is just A girl worth romancing and not THE girl worth romancing, which turned out was his motivation? To me, it didn't. Or there is the recent flashback of Ishigami-Iino, which mind you, I was not the only one that called it out. No mention of any bonding between the two in middle school prior to it, but now Ishigami was inspired by Iino, not by some random manga. What's worse, despite being perfectly aware what Iino has to endure, he continued to break school rules and give her more annoyance even though he was all about easing her pain from the background. And of course, Osaragi and her POV chapters of past events to further make thing convoluted or questionable to say the least when it comes to how she acted during present events. Let's not forget the new trend of using the Ootomo stuff over and over again in all possible angles just to make a point without Ootomo being actually relevant in all of it.

Dude, if you heard from some guys that a guy was fast, of course you'd describe it as "I heard stories" or "I heard rumors". The very fact that he is implied to either have ignored or just never heard those rumors in and of itself tells us that he wasn't talking about the gossip among the common riffraff.

I'll give you the part about inspiration. Looking back it does seem to imply that Ishigami hadn't been playing hero prior to that talk with Miko. I'm not sure I dislike it that much, but yeah it does frame it as rather than "I don't remember what sort of stuff I'd been reading but that must have inspired me" more of "I realized there were people who deserved to be protected". That said, protecting her from bullies doesn't equate to thinking that he agrees with or has any intent of following her by-the-book standards. He's even pointed out to her many times that her standards are too strict and play a big part in why people dislike her. Straight from the beginning he's been described like that, as a guy who admires her perseverance and hates that people would mock or push her down, but who does not consent to following the rules she's trying to impose.

Anyway, as I believe I've said before, I personally want Ootomo to become part of the story again. I don't like the idea of her part being closed with simply "she's probably heard about being cheated on by now". It's mostly just a personal preference, an individual love of seeing misunderstandings undone and the parties involved react to this knowledge and the realization of how that changes their actions, but I really want there to be at least one more chapter where she's actually part of the story and has a direct conversation/confrontation with Ishigami. Course, what I really want is for her to meet him after finding out the entire truth, without any sugar-coating, but that seems unlikely. This series isn't perfect, most certainly, but I guess I'm just a lot more forgiving than some (I've known this for a long time, I can enjoy and appreciate the work put into stories that others would call "crap" and think it a compliment).

And again, as I've said before, sorry for the wall of text. Brevity is not my strong point, and this is actually me trying.

[Kuroageha]

Thanks Kaguya.

[WingedAccelerator]

What Kaguya have said to Iino aligns really well with what I was saying about her the past weeks. And Iino also admitted it. Feels nice.

Wonder what the editor's note implies at the end. The arc is over, but the resolution arc will be named differently? Or the arc continues, it's just that it needed 8 parts to reach the heart of the matter, so it continues with the same name?

[BWTraveller]

Big thing here is that she's grown. People who push her down tend to be like "see, that's the kind of person she is" or nonsense like that without looking at how she's changed over the course of the series. I'd said before that while I feel that she and Ishigami have had a connection of sorts from the beginning, I don't buy that they've "loved" each other from the start. I wouldn't hate it just because they tried to pull something like that, but it feels hard to buy and rather cliche. And yeah, a big part of the problem was how long it took Miko to start opening her eyes and look at things rather than just write it off as good or bad. And honestly, this's a big part of why I'd always thought they make a good pair. Ishigami is too loose, and Miko is too strict. They complement each other, and if they'd been a bit more calm and open and both listened to each other, they could've improved a lot. Really, I like to think that when the next year rolls around Miko will be president, and Ishigami will be VP (and hopefully, like the current Prez and VP, they'll be a couple as well).

As for the editor's bit, if you're talking about that line in the corner, it looks more like they're saying that we're reaching the climax. Like, we've finally pierced to the root of the problem, so next chapter or the one after will be the conclusion of the arc.

One other thing, I feel like Kaguya's being a little hypocritical. She and the Tsubame pushers treated Ishigami's feelings toward Kyoko as "he was in love with her, then he later fell in love with a girl who looks like her", but now that she finds Osaragi expressing the exact same feelings toward Ishigami she's like "no, she doesn't love him romantically, but dropping the romantic love made her friendship/admiration grow stronger". You can't have it both ways. If your description of two people's loves is identical, you can't expect people to buy that one is romantic and the other isn't.

[AndrewR5D4]

I'm a little surprised people seem so invested in Ishigami's love life.

[zeross87]

Originally Posted by AndrewR5D4

I'm a little surprised people seem so invested in Ishigami's love life.

it's not that simple

[Sixth]

Osaragi trash-talking behind Miko.

Kaguya: Miko, it was your fault. Make up with Osaragi now!

Me: WHAT? WHY? Shouldn't that Kaguya be asking Osaragi to make up with Miko as she was the one at fault here?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Osaragi trash-talking behind Miko.

Kaguya: Miko, it was your fault. Make up with Osaragi now!

Me: WHAT? WHY? Shouldn't that Kaguya be asking Osaragi to make up with Miko as she was the one at fault here?

Osaragi isn't the one who decided to destroy the friendship over it though...

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by AndrewR5D4

I'm a little surprised people seem so invested in Ishigami's love life.

People love shipping. It doesn't matter who the boy is, if multiple girls are chasing after him, supporters for each girl will emerge and try to come with all kinds of reason why their girl "deserves" to win.

I'm personally really tired of the Ishigami harem bullshit. I have been for a long time. I'd even take ten consecutive chapters of Fujiwara eating ramen over this.

[BWTraveller]

I don't think I'd really call it a "harem". Currently we've only got two girls who could be described as potential love interests (at least that have been given any indication of anything beyond friendship), and one of them has made it clear that she doesn't intend to do anything but support his happiness. It's much closer to a rocky, complicated love story than a harem.

As for Kaguya's discussion with Miko, she didn't really say anything about anyone being at fault. She simply asked if she was going to try and make up, then scolded her for refusing to compromise or try and see things from Osaragi's perspective, take back said criticism when Miko makes it clear that she realizes this problem and is trying to do something, but still tells her to make up. There's no fault involved in "you two should make up". And I'm sure that if Osaragi had legitimately been doing something truly malicious like spreading rumors or sabotaging or something, rather than just venting in private, she wouldn't have suggested reconciliation or disregarded questions of blame.

[Konja9]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

As for Kaguya's discussion with Miko, she didn't really say anything about anyone being at fault. She simply asked if she was going to try and make up, then scolded her for refusing to compromise or try and see things from Osaragi's perspective, take back said criticism when Miko makes it clear that she realizes this problem and is trying to do something, but still tells her to make up. There's no fault involved in "you two should make up". And I'm sure that if Osaragi had legitimately been doing something truly malicious like spreading rumors or sabotaging or something, rather than just venting in private, she wouldn't have suggested reconciliation or disregarded questions of blame.

I suspect this is also related to Kaguya seeing her past-self reflected in Miko at some level.

Kaguya was distrustful and broke ties pretty easily. She made up rumors to test her friendships.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Osaragi isn't the one who decided to destroy the friendship over it though...

But Osaragi was the one who trashtalking her and actively hurting her heart.

If I am Miko, I certainly won't listen to Kaguya's demands because it is super unreasonable in my eyes.

Miko has done nothing wrong in this whole drama but she now needs to make up with Osaragi instead of Osaragi should be the one who comes to apologize to Miko first.

Kaguya should just stay out of this.

Even reddit posters at Kaguya thread feel that Kaguya was wrong for even promoting the toxic friendship thing on Miko when Miko finally has the chance to cut off from their toxic friendship.

And yes, I was actually still angry with Osaragi when she refused to comfort the broken heart Miko (she has a dead eye) at that time.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Osaragi trash-talking behind Miko.

Kaguya: Miko, it was your fault. Make up with Osaragi now!

Me: WHAT? WHY? Shouldn't that Kaguya be asking Osaragi to make up with Miko as she was the one at fault here?

No? Some time already passed between their meeting. After Osaragi left, Kaguya no longer has any obligation to her unless she comes back for another consulation.

Meanwhile, Miko is a part of the student council and see Kaguya often.

Second, Kaguya literally said in the chapter that it's not about right or wrong. The point is to stop picking meaningless fights. No one ever said Osaragi wasn't wrong. But if Miko can only keep grudges, she's going to be in for a rough time when she's president.

[Diluc]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

No? Some time already passed between their meeting. After Osaragi left, Kaguya no longer has any obligation to her unless she comes back for another consulation.

Meanwhile, Miko is a part of the student council and see Kaguya often.

Second, Kaguya literally said in the chapter that it's not about right or wrong. The point is to stop picking meaningless fights. No one ever said Osaragi wasn't wrong. But if Miko can only keep grudges, she's going to be in for a rough time when she's president.

Was it difficult for Kaguya to tell Osaragi to apologize for Iino for what she said when she was consulted Kaguya in last friggin chapter?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Sixth

But Osaragi was the one who trashtalking her and actively hurting her heart.

If I am Miko, I certainly won't listen to Kaguya's demands because it is super unreasonable in my eyes.

Miko has done nothing wrong in this whole drama but she now needs to make up with Osaragi instead of Osaragi should be the one who comes to apologize to Miko first.

Kaguya should just stay out of this.

Even reddit posters at Kaguya thread feel that Kaguya was wrong for even promoting the toxic friendship thing on Miko when Miko finally has the chance to cut off from their toxic friendship.

And yes, I was actually still angry with Osaragi when she refused to comfort the broken heart Miko (she has a dead eye) at that time.

It's called being the bigger person. If Miko wants to be a leader, it's a valuable skill she should master.