AnimeSuki Forums

Tyabann · 2012-12-25, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

And this is what will end up killing the manga along with the Bottom 5 TOC rankings.

If the manga was going to die it would have done so a long time ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

So how did he not win here?

He was asking for directions. He failed to get any.
Kumagawa has beaten people in combat plenty of times, but he never manages to achieve his actual goal. That's the point.

Kurosu · 2012-12-25, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

Images

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Because it wasn't his fault

summers · 2012-12-26, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

Treasure Hunt arc it was.... it was actually smashing Kuroko in the rankings... and now look at them lol... Kuroko Top 5 constantly, 600k manga seller, 20k selling anime vs MB Bottom 5 Period, 130k seller, flop anime.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=4265

Was funny to see Zen fans act like the last half of the Ajimu arc where Zen took center stage which tanked the ratings, was normal.

Basically...

Box Arcs + Unzen - Bottom 5
Flask Plan - Bottom 5 with a few chapters doing well (Kei vs Zen was 6th IIRC)
Minus Arc - Mostly bottom 5 but than started to be above bottom 5 as well as getting a lot of high placements... think it got 6th like 3 times in row @ one stage.
Treasure Hunt - See above
Ajimu - Like a reverse Minus Arc
Jet Black - L O L

And this is what will end up killing the manga along with the Bottom 5 TOC rankings.

So how did he not win here?

I hope it that scene looks better when actually watching it, because it looks rough and jagged and not in the good way, like in the Naruto shippuden way, where they try to make things look intense and fail.

Clarste · 2012-12-27, 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernsey

All Fiction is mighty but Kumagawa isn't, even with that skill Kumagawa cannot win but he cannot lose either. Kumagawa cannot 'win' no matter how hard he tries but he still trying to 'win' and screw over his 'fate'. I would say that Kumagawa did have some victories in the past but he doesn't notice because of his defeatist mindset. Kumagawa seeks to defy the 'fate' that has been given to him, he wants to win despite his 'fate' as the final boss in some manga. Until Kumagawa changes his mindset, I am not sure if he will beat his 'fate'.

Umm... exactly? All Fiction is already almighty, yet isn't helping him "win". Giving him another almighty skill is therefore completely pointless.

Guernsey · 2012-12-27, 13:16

I don't why he has Unskilled either, if All Fiction couldn't help him 'win' then how is Unskilled any better?

[HearT] · 2012-12-27, 14:10

I guess losing is part of his abnormality so if he uses unskilled on himself he might be able to win? that's all I can think of anyway :/

Endscape · 2012-12-27, 14:14

From a purely thematic point of view, Unskilled does fit Kumagawa.

Guernsey · 2012-12-27, 16:05

I suppose but Kumagawa only has three minutes before it is back to the status quo.

Sol Falling · 2012-12-27, 21:41

Whether Unskilled is useful or not doesn't really matter. Kumagawa's nature is such that any skills he gets will be twisted until they suit him. Regardless of what Unskilled actually does, it's not like he ever used Hundred Gauntlets in its original form either, right?

Incidentally, on the conceptual issue of what constitutes a "win" for Kumagawa. This gets back to something Ajimu ultimately said: that a "win" is only a win if it feels like one, or similarly so for a loss. Basically it's a matter of what you really want, and your core emotions; so that tryhard excuses, like Hipster-kun after his Medaka battle or Kumagawa after his victories in the Treasure Hunt arc, are pretty much just posturing.

From a character development standpoint, prior to his reformation Kumagawa (and the other Minuses)'s goal was basically just to hurt people. To a degree, you can say that Kumagawa was successful in doing that, or that he "won" in his attempts to hurt others. This makes sense because ultimately the thing that Minuses do best, or more like the only thing that Minuses can do really, is to hurt people. However, in that case you have to ask: did Kumagawa win because he wanted to hurt people? Or did Kumagawa hurt people because that was the only thing at which he could possibly win?

In essence, the point is: yes, there are things which Kumagawa can do. From that standpoint, there are plenty of situations where Kumagawa could "win", technically. However, the actual important issue for Kumagawa winning, is what he truly wants to do. Unless "the things which Kumagawa wants to do" and "the things which Kumagawa is able to do" line up, you cannot say that he has won.

Under this definition, there are definitely a number of times when Kumagawa did actually win, in terms of his own feelings. For example, after he made Ajimu's student council candidates respect him. Or alternatively, when he successfully protected them via Aka's memory card game. However, at those times Kumagawa still put on the "Once again, I couldn't win" act (not that it is always an act, as there are legitimate times when Kumagawa's victories don't really feel like "wins"). And the reason for this, is that even though Kumagawa was happy to be able to do something that he wanted in some minor battles, Kumagawa is still not sure/does not have confidence about being able to win at what he truly wants to do. That change will have to come later on, after much more significant character development. It will probably come after he once again, for one more time, challenges Medaka.

Westlo · 2012-12-28, 08:53

As posted by Kakkou in the anime thread.

Quote:

Other noteworthy things from the page is that there was a anime character popularity poll held in select Gamers branches to decide the design of their store exclusive DVD/BD collection box:

1. Kumagawa Misogi
2. Naze Youka
3. Kikaijima Mogana
4. Kurokami Medaka
5. Shiranui Hansode
6. Unzen Myouga
7. Nabeshima Nekomi
8. Takachiho Shigusa
8. Koga Itami
10. Miyakonojou Oudo
10. Hitoyoshi Zenkichi

Kumagawa da gawd does it again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

If the manga was going to die it would have done so a long time ago.

Due to certain circumstances and luck the manga survived its first year, the second year was steady, third was solid, good enough to get it an anime... but right now it's down the drain.

It might survive the next round of cancellations because Cross Manage and Retsu!!! Date-senpai are flops as well, not to mention that Kurogane should be cut down first, but believe it, it's coming.

bastek66 · 2012-12-28, 09:02

In latest chapter

Spoiler:

DawnEmperor · 2012-12-28, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

If the manga was going to die it would have done so a long time ago.

He was asking for directions. He failed to get any.
Kumagawa has beaten people in combat plenty of times, but he never manages to achieve his actual goal. That's the point.

This; it's been shown and discussed plenty of times that he's monstrous in combat, I won't dispute that. But if he doesn't get what he wants, or doesn't feel he's won, it doesn't really matter. That's not to say he's never happy, but he doesn't have those major victories.

@Westlo Honestly....if it can wrap up the story then fine.

Libros · 2012-12-28, 10:52

I wonder what would happen if Kumagawa for once in his life really got a true victory. would he end up becoming a plus, abnormal or something else? or would he just have some sort of mental breakdown?

Homura7 · 2012-12-28, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

Due to certain circumstances and luck the manga survived its first year, the second year was steady, third was solid, good enough to get it an anime... but right now it's down the drain.

It might survive the next round of cancellations because Cross Manage and Retsu!!! Date-senpai are flops as well, not to mention that Kurogane should be cut down first, but believe it, it's coming.

No, it's not, and even less now we are at the more than likely final arc of the story. And stop trying to convince yourself it's Zen's fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bastek66

In latest chapter

Spoiler:

Goddamned rubber band!

orangejuicetang · 2012-12-28, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo

Goddamned rubber band!

Spoiler for :

Jetzero Infinity · 2012-12-28, 12:55

Well I think Fukuro undoubtedly wins the award for "worst father of the year" after this chapter. Not too surprised he ended up getting trolled though.

Homura7 · 2012-12-28, 13:06

Information and plot development wise this chapter was superb.

Spoiler for spoiler:

Moar please.

Ushio the Omega · 2012-12-28, 14:50

R.I.P Medaka Box

Not long till it gets cancelled now anime is over and it flopped huge, the manga is bottom 3 for last 6 weeks and it's the lowest seller of all the manga in WSJ that's over 18 months old.

WSJ has to clear out the dead wood to give more new manga a chance afterall.

Homura7 · 2012-12-28, 14:54

Geez... some people just never learn, do they? It reminds me of the old days.

Thth · 2012-12-28, 15:00

Fukurou killed just like that, I'm not buying it.. but Anshin was one-shotted just like that too.. And he was just about to reveal information on the past too.. oh well..

The battle between Medaka and clone girl was off-paneled, disappointed somewhat..

Other than that I liked this chapter (like the previous one)

2012-12-27, 13:16	Link #11545
Guernsey The GAP Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	I don't why he has Unskilled either, if All Fiction couldn't help him 'win' then how is Unskilled any better? __________________

2012-12-27, 14:10	Link #11546
[HearT] Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011	I guess losing is part of his abnormality so if he uses unskilled on himself he might be able to win? that's all I can think of anyway :/ __________________ 「♥」

2012-12-27, 14:14	Link #11547
Endscape The Mage of Four Hearts Author Join Date: Mar 2010 Age: 33	From a purely thematic point of view, Unskilled does fit Kumagawa. __________________ Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.

2012-12-27, 16:05	Link #11548
Guernsey The GAP Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	I suppose but Kumagawa only has three minutes before it is back to the status quo. __________________

2012-12-28, 09:02	Link #11551
bastek66 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	In latest chapter Spoiler: Iihiko slices Bami's father in half, vertically this time.

2012-12-27, 21:41	Link #11549
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	Whether Unskilled is useful or not doesn't really matter. Kumagawa's nature is such that any skills he gets will be twisted until they suit him. Regardless of what Unskilled actually does, it's not like he ever used Hundred Gauntlets in its original form either, right? Incidentally, on the conceptual issue of what constitutes a "win" for Kumagawa. This gets back to something Ajimu ultimately said: that a "win" is only a win if it feels like one, or similarly so for a loss. Basically it's a matter of what you really want, and your core emotions; so that tryhard excuses, like Hipster-kun after his Medaka battle or Kumagawa after his victories in the Treasure Hunt arc, are pretty much just posturing. From a character development standpoint, prior to his reformation Kumagawa (and the other Minuses)'s goal was basically just to hurt people. To a degree, you can say that Kumagawa was successful in doing that, or that he "won" in his attempts to hurt others. This makes sense because ultimately the thing that Minuses do best, or more like the only thing that Minuses can do really, is to hurt people. However, in that case you have to ask: did Kumagawa win because he wanted to hurt people? Or did Kumagawa hurt people because that was the only thing at which he could possibly win? In essence, the point is: yes, there are things which Kumagawa can do. From that standpoint, there are plenty of situations where Kumagawa could "win", technically. However, the actual important issue for Kumagawa winning, is what he truly wants to do. Unless "the things which Kumagawa wants to do" and "the things which Kumagawa is able to do" line up, you cannot say that he has won. Under this definition, there are definitely a number of times when Kumagawa did actually win, in terms of his own feelings. For example, after he made Ajimu's student council candidates respect him. Or alternatively, when he successfully protected them via Aka's memory card game. However, at those times Kumagawa still put on the "Once again, I couldn't win" act (not that it is always an act, as there are legitimate times when Kumagawa's victories don't really feel like "wins"). And the reason for this, is that even though Kumagawa was happy to be able to do something that he wanted in some minor battles, Kumagawa is still not sure/does not have confidence about being able to win at what he truly wants to do. That change will have to come later on, after much more significant character development. It will probably come after he once again, for one more time, challenges Medaka.

2012-12-28, 10:52	Link #11553
Libros I never hid my hurts. Join Date: May 2012 Location: Where the wild things are--Hell.	I wonder what would happen if Kumagawa for once in his life really got a true victory. would he end up becoming a plus, abnormal or something else? or would he just have some sort of mental breakdown?

2012-12-28, 12:55	Link #11556
Jetzero Infinity Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012	Well I think Fukuro undoubtedly wins the award for "worst father of the year" after this chapter. Not too surprised he ended up getting trolled though.

2012-12-28, 13:06	Link #11557
Homura7 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	Information and plot development wise this chapter was superb. Spoiler for spoiler: Tsurubami confirmed the strongest in all Akoniwa. Too bad his opponent was his own father who can use all the styles. Nienami's style has been explained. Not just that, it turns if it's used at its full is the strongest style too. Moar please.

2012-12-28, 14:50	Link #11558
Ushio the Omega Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010	R.I.P Medaka Box Not long till it gets cancelled now anime is over and it flopped huge, the manga is bottom 3 for last 6 weeks and it's the lowest seller of all the manga in WSJ that's over 18 months old. WSJ has to clear out the dead wood to give more new manga a chance afterall.

2012-12-28, 14:54	Link #11559
Homura7 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	Geez... some people just never learn, do they? It reminds me of the old days.

2012-12-28, 15:00	Link #11560
Thth ??? Join Date: Aug 2008	Fukurou killed just like that, I'm not buying it.. but Anshin was one-shotted just like that too.. And he was just about to reveal information on the past too.. oh well.. The battle between Medaka and clone girl was off-paneled, disappointed somewhat.. Other than that I liked this chapter (like the previous one)