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Old 2015-03-26, 11:11   Link #81
Eisdrache
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Having only the shadow of an admiral is perfectly fine if it's handled well. It's possible to show him being competent even without speaking a single word.
Similarly having Fubuki as the MC is fine too. The reason why she's considered bland is because she repeated the same drama several times. This is not an issue of having another MC, she would have had the exact same problems Fubuki did.
Just having SoL wouldn't work as the setting is quirky shipgirls fighting against abyssals. Having only battles however would not do it justice either.
Game mechanics being included in the show that anime-only viewers won't get is perfectly fine. I am saying this as someone who hasn't played the game. While the show should provide the basic setting, it's up to the viewer to look up more in depth details.

The main problem with Kancolle was the miserable pacing along with several non-existant quality checks as well as unlogical stuff happening all over the place. Just fixing the pacing alone would have improved the show massively.
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Old 2015-03-26, 11:15   Link #82
Klashikari
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I also believe it is possible to make the admiral counting as a "character" even if they aren't visible.
For instance, if they made the admiral slaming their desk upon hearing Kisaragi's death (with a close up on a gloved fist on the desk), and potentially some "wet marks" on the said desk, it would change a lot of things.

The real issue with the "air admiral" is the fact that Nagato completely took his role over time, and his "disappearence" made the matter much worse.
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Old 2015-03-26, 17:23   Link #83
DerGilga
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The choice of an air admiral was probably made so that the viewer could 'play' his role, mimicking an aspekt of the game. Also certain shipgirl quotes or shipgirls themselves wouldn't be usable in the anime. *looking at Kongou* I think it totally backfired and was one of the most stupid decisions of the staff.

Given the importance of admiral and the decision he has to make, I would prefered a real character next season. A admiral with grief and sorrow would be far more relatable then this air admiral who has less personality than a broomstick. Rereading old mangas I wished the anime had admiral like this guy:
Spoiler for best admiral ever:
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Old 2015-03-26, 17:30   Link #84
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Whatever they do, I just hope the admiral will be visible or have a voice.
Or things like Klashikari already mentioned to characterize him.

Him being there for the last episode was kinda pointless, and they could have as well killed him off to bring a proper Admiral into the next season/movie/whatever.
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Old 2015-03-26, 17:33   Link #85
chaosprophet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerGilga View Post
The choice of an air admiral was probably made so that the viewer could 'play' his role, mimicking an aspekt of the game. Also certain shipgirl quotes or shipgirls themselves wouldn't be usable in the anime. *looking at Kongou* I think it totally backfired and was one of the most stupid decisions of the staff.
I agree with you, but just want to comment that the decision is likely so people can not only insert themselves in the role, but also insert their favorite fandom admiral there. As in the fandom there are many kinds of admirals, young or old, male or female, with all kinds of different personalities.
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Old 2015-03-26, 19:34   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosprophet View Post
I agree with you, but just want to comment that the decision is likely so people can not only insert themselves in the role, but also insert their favorite fandom admiral there. As in the fandom there are many kinds of admirals, young or old, male or female, with all kinds of different personalities.
With that kind of decision and seeing the result of its execution in the anime, I'd think that the fandom won't even want to insert anything at all. As it stands the "treatment" of the "Admiral" concept in the anime makes it look worse than being adapted out.
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Old 2015-03-26, 20:10   Link #87
Estavali
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I think the first thing they should do is to decide on the setting and build the story from there on. Some decent world-building is always welcome, and it could also give them the freedom to do more than just stick to the events of the Pacific War. Show also the effects of the Abyssal Fleet dominating the ocean, like embargoes placed on maritime nations and how they affect these nations, and the consequences of introducing the ship-girls as the solution to the Abyssal problem.
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Old 2015-03-26, 20:35   Link #88
kct
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Show also the effects of the Abyssal Fleet dominating the ocean, like embargoes placed on maritime nations and how they affect these nations, and the consequences of introducing the ship-girls as the solution to the Abyssal problem.
The problem with that is that comparisons with similar franchises cannot be avoided, since it has been the go-to plot device of both SW and Arpeggio.

Spoiler for Arpeggio:


With regards to the game mechanics part, it felt fine at first, but got increasingly out of place.

Spoiler for Wishful thinking:
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Old 2015-03-27, 00:14   Link #89
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by Academus View Post
I believe the anime is an adaptation of the game rather than the war. In the game, you only lose kanmusu when you push your luck. In other words, in the game's world, you sink your own kanmusu. In anime, your kanmusu could sink any moment, and you have no control over it, nor any way to prevent it. Is that consistent with reality? Yes. Is that consistent with the game? No. Any subsequent mentioning of Kisaragi's sinking only serves to highlight that the adaptation is in name only.
Let me give you another idea. If you suspend disbelief and assume the world of KanColle does exist, then the game and anime are but representations of that world. Under these terms, what do you think is more likely in that world?

1) Kanmusu really don't die unless they go into battle taiha.
2) Kanmusu do die, but the game softballs that part.

If you think about how games that represent the real world go, the answer should be obvious.

Even if Kanmusu generally don't die, given that they are hurling shells at each other, a very likely reason in-world reason why they don't is because the Abyssals try not to kill kanmusu (they are after all, their only entertainment). They try to neutralize rather than kill and once that's achieved, as a rule they go on other targets. Sometimes the kanmusus try too hard, struggling to their feet, and the Abyssals spray a couple of rounds in their general direction*. Only when they are too stubborn does some Abyssal shoot the girl dead (perhaps sighing in its mind). The game approximates these tendencies, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the Abyssals can't make a mistake in the real universe, or one can't change its mind. Kisaragi just happened to be that one, and since such things do happen from time to time, all kanmusu fear sinking.

*Which if true says something interesting about us, because we typically cheer when an Abyssal fires on our already Heavily Damaged kanmusu, even calling such kanmusu things like "meat shield"...
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Old 2015-03-27, 01:48   Link #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosprophet View Post
I agree with you, but just want to comment that the decision is likely so people can not only insert themselves in the role, but also insert their favorite fandom admiral there. As in the fandom there are many kinds of admirals, young or old, male or female, with all kinds of different personalities.
That's the thing, Idolm@ster showed at two occasion that it can be done. And in the case of Cinderella Girls, he even enjoyed a surprising popularity. I don't think Japan, the primary target audience, would mind if he looked like generic LN protag as long as he shows that he have a disctinct personality, cares about his girls (and troll Akebono wwww) and have a good seiyuu to boot.
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Old 2015-03-27, 02:05   Link #91
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Yeah, Idolm@ster showed that you can represent the player character as their own distinct persona without being detrimental to the portrayal of the established popular characters, and in fact can be beneficial as a whole. As already mentioned, the socially-awkward Producer from the Idolm@ster Cinderella Girls anime is an extremely popular character in his own right, despite the fact that he's an anime-only addition that is only there to represent the player character from the game.

Given that the Admiral in the anime already shows preferences counter to what some players actually want and do - like the extreme preference for Fubuki for instance - I think the anime should've just straight up made an actual Admiral character that we can see who can provide another level of interaction with the girls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
2) Kanmusu do die, but the game softballs that part.
Oh if only Kancolle used Dog Days wargames mechanics
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Old 2015-03-27, 02:08   Link #92
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Oh if only Kancolle used Dog Days wargames mechanics
I know you are joking but, for goodness sake, no. Anything but that.
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Old 2015-03-27, 02:12   Link #93
LoweGear
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I know you are joking but, for goodness sake, no. Anything but that.
Why not? Kanmusu already suffer clothing damage from battle in much the same way Dog Days does, and that way you can have intense battles between the Abyssals and Kanmusu without any death, while allowing for likeable and sympathetic Abyssals to be portrayed

Abyssals like Hoppo also wouldn't look out of place in a setting where defeat equals puffballs

*runs*
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Old 2015-03-27, 02:15   Link #94
Sheba
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That's the thing tho, in-game you SINK the Abyssals. The no instant sinking or not sinking unless red is in because of the RNG nature of the game. A comparison would be playing D&D against a asshole DM where game mechanisms such as negative HP and revival prevent games from being total party wipes.
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Old 2015-03-27, 03:09   Link #95
chaosprophet
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
That's the thing, Idolm@ster showed at two occasion that it can be done. And in the case of Cinderella Girls, he even enjoyed a surprising popularity. I don't think Japan, the primary target audience, would mind if he looked like generic LN protag as long as he shows that he have a disctinct personality, cares about his girls (and troll Akebono wwww) and have a good seiyuu to boot.
I was mentioning another possible reason for not showing admiral, but I agree it didn't work as that in the end and would have been better too have him/her as an actual character or not there.
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Old 2015-03-27, 03:50   Link #96
Ithekro
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Aside from some of the more interesting fan make Admirals, I wanted a unseen Admiral that would do mostly voice-overs (maybe actually talk from offscreen to the girls, but really I wanted voice overs as a commentary on the girls and what was going on) done by Tomokazu Sugita...in a Kyon style voice and personality. Snark with some trolling, and a lot of exasperation towards his more energentic girls (Kongo for instance).
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Old 2015-03-27, 03:52   Link #97
Enternal
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Oh if only Kancolle used Dog Days wargames mechanics
It would be fun if Akagi turns into a manju when defeated instead of a toy ship.
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Old 2015-03-27, 04:01   Link #98
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Aside from some of the more interesting fan make Admirals, I wanted a unseen Admiral that would do mostly voice-overs (maybe actually talk from offscreen to the girls, but really I wanted voice overs as a commentary on the girls and what was going on) done by Tomokazu Sugita...in a Kyon style voice and personality. Snark with some trolling, and a lot of exasperation towards his more energentic girls (Kongo for instance).
Heard somewhere that Tomokazu Sugita liked Haruna among the four sisters.
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Old 2015-03-27, 04:07   Link #99
Ithekro
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Haruna is fine. I can "hear" the facepalm of a "Kyon" admiral towards Kongo and Hiei's antics. Or Naka and Sendai for that matter.
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Old 2015-03-27, 04:13   Link #100
orion
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As an anime only viewer, I hope they have better 3D graphics and better fights. I like Fubuki as a MC.

I think not showing the admiral is prob the best way to go as if it's an old guy, part of the viewers would go "ewwww" those girls are obsessed over that old fart. If it's a a kid, then it's "ewwww" those girls are obsessed over a kid and the fact that it's a kid would just take away the realism. If it's a teen, then it's "oh they are mimicking Arpeggio of Blue Steel".

I hope that more Abysmals will be able to talk and they show us how the sunken girls become Abysmals.
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