Mass Effect 2 - BioWare

[Arbitres]

A machine that creates itself? Unlikely, but this is Mass Effect, the Universe being obviously older then anyone ever anticipated.

If the reapers did do their own instrumentality Project, why would they need to ascend? If by that train of thought, then that would explain the hive mind of theirs. But a hivemind cannot be a as such without a mastermind. In my statistical opinion, anyways.

The reapers erased Protheans, among countless others. They do this to indoctrinate and slay fast-growing civilizations and species, which are 'mutations as they(the reapers) dictate.'

There is a big 'Why'? and 'How'?. Where doesn't necessarily matter at the moment, nor does When.

Reapers created themselves, then how did they get the technological prowess of such? If they did have minds, would that mean they... created material from nothingness/had other species harvest them with indoctrination?

Puzzling... I can't quite wrap my head around the idea of such, but I know it's possible. Simple speculation, though thats all we can do on The Reapers origins.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

lets say for a second that i completely agree with you...

even if it WAS a good idea to explore this tech and try to use it against the reapers...
do you really think that letting CERBERUS have it ?
given what we know about how they made the likes of jack ?

No, that was the primary reason you shouldn't do it. That said, I felt a little reassured when in Shepard's dialog he warned against abusing it beyond dealing with the Reapers. Makes me think that even if you went for the Renegade end you can still rectify it come the sequel if it ever comes back to bite you. That said, there were other implications for me, primarily the Reapers, though concern of losing valuable resources from Cerberus and potentially coming into active conflict with them sooner then I would want while the rest of the galaxy is burying their heads in the sand.

Also, to note about the Reapers being 'machines' their not totally that if you recall, organic make-up after all.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

its more then that really
sovereign makes it clear that the REASON reapers leave behind their tech like the mass relay and the citadel is because it allows them to control what evolutionary paths the organic races who find them take
and the collectors ship is the same way really (the collectors were created by the reapers after all)
so trying to use it for their selves would just mean that humanity is doing what the reapers want

besides, do you really think the reapers wouldn't have a self-destruct mechanism on something like that if they felt it could be used against them ?

The Collector base being captured wasn't exactly part of the plan. In fact, it was pretty much set up in such a way that no race could ever hope to reach it (hence the rather large graveyard) so there's bound to be tech that the Reapers didn't want humanity to find.

It's like the upgraded Normandy guns. They were based of Sovereign's remains, and they helped tear the Collector ship (which, mind, was also reaper tech) to shreds.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

lets say for a second that i completely agree with you...

even if it WAS a good idea to explore this tech and try to use it against the reapers...
do you really think that letting CERBERUS have it ?
given what we know about how they made the likes of jack ?

And how they were the only ones putting a stop to the collectors, while the Council played politics? I had zero problems throwing my full support behind the Illusive Man after meeting Anderson.

Which is one other thing that disappointed me a bit... the lack of a choice to agree with the Illusive Man's words at the end of the game. I wanted my Shepard to be fully behind the Illusive Man's choices.

[Key Board]

I gave it to Cerberus because it's FAR MORE INTERESTING THIS WAY

why play it safe?

I'd rather have a chaotic finale

[Kyero Fox]

Renegade = Humans first

Paragon = Earning their place in the galaxie

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Keroko

The Collector base being captured wasn't exactly part of the plan. In fact, it was pretty much set up in such a way that no race could ever hope to reach it (hence the rather large graveyard) so there's bound to be tech that the Reapers didn't want humanity to find.

It's like the upgraded Normandy guns. They were based of Sovereign's remains, and they helped tear the Collector ship (which, mind, was also reaper tech) to shreds.

True, but this again is an unknown factor attributed to the withholding of information pertaining to the sequel. We have no idea how Cerberus will be using the Collector technology, just as it took us until ME2 to realize Sovereign's remains wasn't enough to convince the Council, and it only contributed to the development of THANIX.

Originally Posted by Keroko

And how they were the only ones putting a stop to the collectors, while the Council played politics? I had zero problems throwing my full support behind the Illusive Man after meeting Anderson.

Aside from his horrible track record.

Conversation about Cerberus with EDI after the Joker mission shows that there's only a dozen or so ongoing Cerberus's... more sensitive projects at anytime, because Illusive Man's a control freak.

And still, at least 6 went to development hell in Mass Effect alone.

Originally Posted by Key Board

I gave it to Cerberus because it's FAR MORE INTERESTING THIS WAY

why play it safe?

I'd rather have a chaotic finale

This. I did the same for my first playthrough.

The Collector Base should cover all my debt towards Illusive Man ( 20-30 billion credits or so? ) and from a trilogy-standpoint, empowering villains only makes their fall from grace all the more sweeter in the finale.

Until all my teammates started chastising me for my choice without any option for rebuke. Then I made another save. I am fickle like that.

[Xion Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Keroko

And how they were the only ones putting a stop to the collectors, while the Council played politics? I had zero problems throwing my full support behind the Illusive Man after meeting Anderson.

You're going about this completely wrong. Shepard doesn't take orders from anyone. If the Illusive Man wants on board the winning team, he better take orders from Shepard, not the other way around. Shepard has had enough of people who work in the shadows pulling all the strings. People play by his rules, or they're out.

[2H-Dragon]

I wanted to destroy the base and still be friends with the illusive man. I like the guy, he always pulled trough in the end.

Sadly that option wasn't available so I just blew it up.

[LoweGear]

So I tried playing as a Vanguard today (Hardcore Difficulty) after finishing my Infiltrator...

Damn, why didn't I do this sooner? While it does take one a few tries (and lots of deaths) to master the art of Biotic Charge, I can clear out a combat area several times faster than than a Soldier or Infiltrator, and everything goes by so fast that I'm left gaping, wondering what's going on... before I chuckle at how awesome the entire thing was.

Plus, Vanguard with Eviscerator =

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

I wanted to destroy the base and still be friends with the illusive man. I like the guy, he always pulled trough in the end.

Sadly that option wasn't available so I just blew it up.

It'll all depend on how they play it out in the next game, a lot of it seems set up that it'll force you to fight him eventually anyway.

[ZeroForever]

honestly... if what they did with the end of ME1 barely making a difference is any indication i doubt that the 'choice' will have any major effect.

If anything ... how can you safetly research it when it's known that the tech will mind rape anything within the general area of it as shown with the reaper IFF. Or the fact that it would be dumb for the reapers not to have safety protocals for it.

[LoweGear]

Except that ME3 is the finale to the entire trilogy: All the choices you've made in ME1 and ME2 supposedly culminate to their ultimate conclusion in ME3. Would be incredibly strange if the Paragon/Renegade choice in ME2 would have the same effect as ME2. Not to mention that ME2 only has such a strange treatment of your decisions because of the fear of oversaturating the decisions you made for ME3, and also because of being the "middle child" of the trilogy.

[Matrim]

Except that ME3 is the finale to the entire trilogy: All the choices you've made in ME1 and ME2 supposedly culminate to their ultimate conclusion in ME3.

Unfortunately the key word here is "supposedly". The ME franchise doesn't exactly give one much of a choice, as far as the main storyline goes. It even has moments where you have no choice but to go to some mission immediately like the Horizon one. You can be the biggest paragon ever, yet you still have no choice but work with Cerberus and free a murderer from her prison in the process.

You're going about this completely wrong. Shepard doesn't take orders from anyone. If the Illusive Man wants on board the winning team, he better take orders from Shepard, not the other way around. Shepard has had enough of people who work in the shadows pulling all the strings. People play by his rules, or they're out.

Not to mention The Illusive man is the leader of a terrorist organization. Really, why should Shepard trust a guy who has performed terrible experiments like testing Tresher Maw acid on humans? The ends justify the means can only go that far, giving such a man the Collectors base is like trusting a mad dictator with an atomic bomb.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well, because your a Paragon you went to work for Cerberus, you have a greater sense of good that goes beyond any code you may technically serve. After all, you do flip the council for grounding you so you can go save the galaxy. And Jack is cool, Paragon Shepard is all about the second chances and keeping an open mind

That said, I do wish for Cerberus to survive in some form when this is all over, nobody likes to admit it but people do need organizations like that do what must be done but no one wants to do, the STG, the Spectres, the Asari Commandos, etc etc.

[Matrim]

But the STG, The Spectres and the Asari Commandos are subordinate to the respective governmental structures. Cerberus started this way apparently but have now gone rogue. Why everybody takes that in stride I will never know.

Cerberus claims to do what must be done but words are cheap. The atrocities they have committed on the other hand had the vague "justification" of helping humanity by trying to create an army of husks, rachni, etc. Well, Saren claimed to be fighting on the side of good too and he had an army of geth and tried to make one of Krogan too. Maybe Shepard should have joined Saren's side then? Seeing what a cynical jackass the Illusive Man is I really don't buy his words, I think he just wants more power for himself and sees the Reaper tech as the fastest way to get it.

[KrimzonStriker]

Saren believed in what he was preaching, didn't make him any less of a jackass, but I could respect those feelings as my Paragon Shepard did. Maybe the Illusive man is simply lying, at the same time though maybe he just really believes in what he does. Doesn't mean I respect or agree with those ideas or especially his methods to realize them, but I can respect his conviction to a degree, in a really weird way.

That said, about the various endings not having an impact on the general mass effect 3 story line, I'm speculating right now that it'll play off as a larger version of the suicide mission endings, where you had the option of doing all these various actions, and if you didn't you'd take some heavy losses or outright die in the process.

[Arbitres]

Saren's ideas made sense, to a degree. But you have to remember -- It was revealed he was being controlled by Sovereign, while his ideals may have started off better or worse, sovereign wrapped them in a blanket so he could control those same ideals. Saren was none the wiser (Unless you passed the paragon check, in which he himself realizes and he does his last honorable act as a true Turian.)

The Illusive man was a jackass just like Saren, but he wants the technology for Cerberus gain (As in, he most likely wants to subjugate all other races, making them lower class citizens to humans.)

The technological prowess is tempting, and the gain is quite nice, but looking from your perspective in Illusive Man's shoes... it feels somewhat... machievallien.

Like all humans, Illusive Man is hung up on the idea of instant gratification and wants humans as the one true superior race.

But there are humans that don't want 'superior race' bullshit, like Anderson.

Agreed, 'The ends justifies the means' has it's limits. Experimenting on whatever chance doesn't make anything better, just eats up funds and lives. While those said funds and lives could be taking care of the real threat, The Reapers.

[Nightengale]

Funny you all should bring up comparisons between TIM and Saren, because Saren's original intentions for wanting to use Sovereign was all the same as Illusive Man's. Sovereign as a unprecedented power, to put the turians as the dominant race on the galactic map, no longer having to 'compromise' with other Council races, and humble humanity for good.

A loose cannon, racist and prejudiced against humanity because of his brother who died in First Contact. Ends justify the means, though unlike TIM, his is more direct and personal. If there was ever a turian-equivalent of Cerberus, he'd be The Illusive Turian. ( with extra hatred towards humanity )

He changed after realizing Sovereign's true power, but he was.

[DragoonKain3]

Okay, I take back what I said about Adepts. Thing is, Singularity actually works against most enemies even with protection; I just didn't noticed it at early levels because 1) it does not send them flying and 2) the duration is lessened. But apart from that, I've been using it to chain stun Harbringers and Scions no prob.

So they actually have a decent CC now; its basically like ME1 Stasis for most enemies, you just need to continually cast it, is all.


And as a side note...

"Go for optics, Lakeesha*, go for optics!"

*(or whatever the heck Tali's robot is)

I just lol'ed at that. So Minsc becomes transgendered and transpecied in Mass Effect 23? Hilarious! XD

Which is all well and good, as Miranda fulfilling a 'promise' with Jacob turned me off from pursuing a romance with her, as I can't help shipping the two now lol. So yeah, it all works out since I've personally always had a soft spot for tali; I dunno, maybe its her manner of speaking that got to me ever since ME1.

[bladeofdarkness]

the name of tali's drone is "Chikktika vas Paus"
which is, in itself, another refrence to Baldur's Gate