Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 49 Discussion / Poll

[foxbox360]

Downer ending incoming....

[Wing Kigu]

Believe whatever you want. From whats seen on screen Mika stomps Gali without Ein, and he never once tries to take on Macky without immediately activating Ein.

It's debatable whether Gali is even piloting at all at this point since he completely throws his arms in the air. Ein could very well be in complete control of the suit when the
system is engaged.

We can engage in Hypotheticals for an entire week until next episode it looks like Eins brain has died, so we'll see how well he does without it, if he even goes into battle.

[Rising Dragon]

Yeah, you're definitely in denial. We wouldn't be engaging in hypotheticals if I have to bloody well post screenshots of where you're wrong.

[Knight_SV]

did okada getting backlash on social media for how the plot direction??
in the end if rustal wins then the world will be more corrupted than before as he has absolute power

[Wing Kigu]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Yeah, you're definitely in denial. We wouldn't be engaging in hypotheticals if I have to bloody well post screenshots of where you're wrong.

McGillis literally killed him in season 1. Emotional distress of the moment set aside, he bested him effortlessly in a one-on-one duel in what could be argued an inferior machine (Grimgerde). Against Mika, he was overpowered until he activated Ein.

He doesn't stand a chance against either without Ein and he knows this. He says it himself.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

While Gali has grown a bit here and there, in the end he's actually not that different that he was before. He just broods more. When we first see him, he's a naive whining brat. And he's STILL a naive, whining brat. He just whines about different things now.

Hey, at least he apologized to Mika . That's something his old self would never do .

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

It's Agnika Kaieru himself mobile suit, the king of killing mobile armors, we still never saw the full extent of it's powers.

The mechanical specification for Bael in the model kit even stated that aside from its capability to fly in the atmosphere, Bael is nothing too remarkable compared to later Gundams as you can expect from the very first product in a long line of 71 other models that came after it with improvements. What? You’re gonna deny the info from the creator too? I’ve said this in other threads but I’ll repeat this again: Bael is revered, deified and considered special because Agnika piloted it, not vice versa. It’s like Elvis Presley’s guitars. They are valued because Elvis played them, not because the guitars are the most incredible things.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Except the problem is that 15+ episodes feel pointless now since all that build up is thrown out the window when "Muh BAEL" and following fiasco happened. While tragedy is not exactly my cup of tea, i had my fill of characters dying in several Gundam shows.....Zeta and Victory gets honorable mentions.

Build up is not only intended for good endings, you know. It can also be meant for tragedy. Just because you have a build up doesn’t guarantee you a happy ending. It can also be for bittersweet endings or outright bleak endings. Look at stories like 300, Oedipus, Scarface, Hamlet, Grave of the Fireflies, and other good tragedies or bittersweet stories out there. All of them have build ups. Some of them even have their MCs setup as great heroes before things go south for them story-wise.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Here it just feels that the writers Okada are killing off characters for to finish the story with cheap shock factor and drama. It's also impossible to see the antagonist side in a sympathetic light as most of them are just corrupted adults or whiny brats who gets to survive because of dumb luck.

The character who got killed off made sense in the world that they are living in and their deaths are more than acceptable to propel the story. Not much different from Game of Thrones that many people are crazy about. Also, I don’t think you are supposed to sympathize with the antagonists of this arc too much. The writers apparently didn’t make them very likable.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Btw what is the moral of the story after all the child abuse, pedophilia, political marriage and other disturbing things............."Don't try to change your shitty destiny because the writers Or Okada will make you FAIL". Guess i am in the wrong for actually wanting to see Tekkadan and Macgillis succeed.

The morals are:

"Entrepreneurship is good, but don't be too greedy"
"Shit happens"
and
"Eat your vegetables, kids!"

Oh, and this too:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

"Don't start a revolution with poor planning and insufficient resources"

I rarely ever praise Gundam Wing, but when it comes to coup and dethroning old regime who controls the most powerful armed organization, McG really needs to learn from Treize .

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

McGillis literally killed him in season 1. Emotional distress of the moment set aside, he bested him effortlessly in a one-on-one duel in what could be argued an inferior machine (Grimgerde). Against Mika, he was overpowered until he activated Ein.

He doesn't stand a chance against either without Ein and he knows this.

McGillis had to drive him to an emotional frenzy to compromise him, and constantly fought on the defensive, letting Gaelio leave himself open during his attacks. The man was an emotional wreck, ANYONE with skilled piloting could've taken him out at that point. Not sure how that's supposed to prove your point.

Also, the fact that Gaelio was around this season means McGillis did a pretty fucking poor job at "literally killing him"!

[Wing Kigu]

^And he stills fights the exact same way even after 2 years, he's still gets triggered and blindly attacking McGillis and screaming his name and it would end the exact same way except now he has Ein.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The mechanical specification for Bael in the model kit even stated that aside from its capability to fly in the atmosphere, Bael is nothing too remarkable compared to later Gundams as you can expect from the very first product in a long line of 71 other models that came after it with improvements. What? You’re gonna deny the info from the creator too? I’ve said this in other threads but I’ll repeat this again: Bael is revered, deified and considered special because Agnika piloted it, not vice versa. It’s like Elvis Presley’s guitars. They are valued because Elvis played them, not because the guitars are the most incredible things.

That's a bad analogy. In music (particularly effects pedals, Guitars, etc) theres such a thing as "Mojo" and within the series Gundams do things all the time that are not in the specifications, just look at Unicorn Gundam! I'm not asking for Deus ex Machina, he just should have actually pulled something out of the bag instead of blindly charging into his death.

[Rising Dragon]

You have no bloody clue on how to differentiate between an emotional breakdown and righteous fury. There's no issue with him using such a boon, the whole point of a war is to kill the enemy. Gaelio used a boon to tip the scales in his favor against a ruthless opponent who knows how he fights and is using a Gundam Frame, already proven to be an extremely powerful and dangerous weapon, who also now has the Alaya-Vijnana as an advantage against him.

You're acting like Gaelio is completely incompetent and couldn't kill off a rookie with a Gundam and frankly speaking it's getting insulting. You're willfully ignoring evidence and circumstance to smear a character you don't like.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

That's a bad analogy. In music (particularly effects pedals, Guitars, etc) theres such a thing as "Mojo" and within the series Gundams do things all the time that are not in the specifications, just look at Unicorn Gundam! I'm not asking for Deus ex Machina, he just should have actually pulled something out of the bag instead of blindly charging into his death.

There's an easy answer to that: McG is not Agnika and he will never perform like Agnika, Bael or no Bael.

[Rising Dragon]

> Not asking for a Deus ex Machina
> Uses the one Gundam that has "pull a Deus ex Machina out of its ass whenever the plot demands it" in its specs as an example

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Build up is not only intended for good endings, you know. It can also be meant for tragedy. Just because you have a build up doesn’t guarantee you a happy ending. It can also be for bittersweet endings or outright bleak endings. Look at stories like 300, Oedipus, Scarface, Hamlet, Grave of the Fireflies, and other good tragedies or bittersweet stories out there. All of them have build ups. Some of them even have their MCs setup as great heroes before things go south for them story-wise.

The build up didn't hint for a forced bad ending.........nothings changed and no hint of any possibility either. Tragedy is one thing but this whole season has been a waste of time for me. Both sides having some casualties would have made some sense at least but even that didn't happen.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The character who got killed off made sense in the world that they are living in and their deaths are more than acceptable to propel the story. Not much different from Game of Thrones that many people are crazy about. Also, I don’t think you are supposed to sympathize with the antagonists of this arc too much. The writers apparently didn’t make them very likable.

Propel towards what? The predictable mess of a bad ending that was all but confirmed after the Bael fiasco. Hey Tekkadan has some hope, lets kill off the leader characters so we can finish this soon and destroy any chances for a future season.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The morals are:

"Entrepreneurship is good, but don't be too greedy"
"Shit happens"
and
"Eat your vegetables, kids!"

Oh, and this too:

I rarely ever praise Gundam Wing, but when it comes to coup and dethroning old regime who controls the most powerful armed organization, McG really needs to learn from Treize .

Macgillis, a char clone who rose up in the ranks through because of his deceit, tactics and brains, had no other plan other than "Muh BAEL"? The writers obviously didn't throw the idiot ball at him........yeah yeah it fits his character blah blah. Except it doesn't.....considering for how long he has been planning this we could have seen much better. But wasted potential is wasted, what can i say?

Oh also "Shit Happens" because the writer Okada want the "Character to be abused and stay in his/her place!!"

All the revolution and reformation BS became totally worthless now because of how much of a mess the final few episodes are.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

The build up didn't hint for a forced bad ending.........nothings changed and no hint of any possibility either. Tragedy is one thing but this whole season has been a waste of time for me. Both sides having some casualties would have made some sense at least but even that didn't happen.

Propel towards what? The predictable mess of a bad ending that was all but confirmed after the Bael fiasco.

Now that I mentioned it, many of the prior grim foreshadowing turned out to be true like the aforementioned Naze’s concern, McMurdo’s remark that Kudelia’s action will lead to war, Biscuit’s growing concern for Orga’s reckless tendency, Kudelia’s foreboding narration before G-horn civil war, etc. And the character action certainly propel towards that direction. Whether you like it or not is not my business.

In fact, there are more grim foreshadowing than good foreshadowing in this show. So, how come people like you unable to see the bad things to come is beyond me.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Hey Tekkadan has some hope, lets kill off the leader characters so we can finish this soon and destroy any chances for a future season.

That's your concern? That the writers made it so that there will be no chance at future season?

And I don’t even have to reply your other points since it’s just ramblings that have been repeated for the umpteenth time in this thread.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Now that I mentioned it, many of the prior grim foreshadowing turned out to be true like the aforementioned Naze’s concern, McMurdo’s remark that Kudelia’s action will lead to war, Biscuit’s growing concern for Orga’s reckless tendency, Kudelia’s foreboding narration before G-horn civil war, etc. And the character action certainly propel towards that direction. Whether you like it or not is not my business.

In fact, there are more grim foreshadowing than good foreshadowing in this show. So, how come people like you unable to see the bad things to come is beyond me.

- Big Brother character gets killed......typical in Gundam
- Way too obvious.......since when did a plan go well?
- Support character got killed

Please the so-called foreshadowing are the usual in Gundam or any shows.....so yeah i have noticed them. Whether i like or agree with the results is MY opinion.

BUT there wasn't any foreshadowing about Macgillis's plan turning into a utterly pointless bluff and failure........please point me if there was. Macgillis was setup to be much better than going through with "Muh BAEL" plan.

There was never going to be good end for Tekkadan, i was sure about that much. But conveniently making characters dumb just to force them in a bad end is not acceptable for me. Coupled with the fact that the antagonist side seem to be all knowing or survive because of sheer dumb luck makes it even worse.

For all revolution and reformation talk nothing changed and whatever progress made in season 1 got rolled back. No one is left to carry on Macgillis's dream (kid wife doesn't count), the main bosses of Tekkadan is going to die (high chance), Kudelia lost her role and probably whatever progress she made and corrupted G-Horn will stay corrupted. Maybe Gali will have a change of heart and shoot Rustal in the end but will turn out to be a BS since Ioktard will carry on his will.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

That's your concern? That the writers made it so that there will be no chance at future season?

And I don’t even have to reply your other points since it’s just ramblings that have been repeated for the umpteenth time in this thread.

My concern is more than just that but hey if that's what you believe then it's fine by me. Besides aren't you guys repeatedly rambling the same things as argument as well?

[DmonHiro]

See, this is my problem with the writing of season 2. Mc.Gillis went from Char-style planning and tactics to an blundering idiot. Are you telling me that his entire plan for the past God knows how many years basically:
1. Take father's place.
2. Get Bael.
3. ???
4. Profit

[Ernietheracefan]

I don't know if I should feel sorry to Gaelio or mad to him. I mean, Macky died for his revenge..

[Rising Dragon]

I think the lot of you are overestimating the kind of obstacles McGillis had to deal with in his manipulations. Gaelio hung onto his every word because he was happy enough that his efforts in befriending McGillis was paying off, and Carta was a complete fucking moron, while Iznario and Gallus practically handed him a political opening in Almiria.

It's really, really easy to see how he could've pulled off what he did. It's also really, really easy to believe that his plan for Bael would've worked, because we're seeing that the corruption, cowardness, laziness, and sheer stupidity in Gjallarhorn is the norm. Here's what you people are actively ignoring:

If Gaelio and Rustal hadn't revealed McGillis' crimes, McGillis' plan would've worked flawlessly.

Char-style planning and tactics. Please.

[StratoSpear]

I like how just some of us here seem to forget the exchange between Orga and McGillis back in Ep 44.

It was already an indication that McGillis did not think further from than "Get Bael"

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

BUT there wasn't any foreshadowing about Macgillis's plan turning into a utterly pointless bluff and failure........please point me if there was. Macgillis was setup to be much better than going through with "Muh BAEL" plan.

It's not direct. A foreshadowing was never direct, but we can see it in McG prior admiration towards Mika that he had expressed multiple times. An admiration and obsession toward brute power.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Coupled with the fact that the antagonist side seem to be all knowing or survive because of sheer dumb luck makes it even worse.

Antagonist being better because Rustal is better and has way more experience in what he's doing compared to McG, Tekkadan & Kudelia combined. Plus, he got inside intel from Gaelio about McG. As for the antagonist plot armor, I have repeatedly said that I don't like it either. Do you need to keep repeating the "bad guy plot armor"-chant? You're already preaching to the choir .

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

For all revolution and reformation talk nothing changed and whatever progress made in season 1 got rolled back. No one is left to carry on Macgillis's dream (kid wife doesn't count), the main bosses of Tekkadan is going to die (high chance), Kudelia lost her role and probably whatever progress she made and corrupted G-Horn will stay corrupted. Maybe Gali will have a change of heart and shoot Rustal in the end but will turn out to be a BS since Ioktard will carry on his will.

Meh, I'll have to wait for the end until I can make that judgement.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Besides aren't you guys repeatedly rambling the same things as argument as well?

Well, you act, we react. I have no problem ignoring it like I just did. But you keep repeating them again & again like a chant . Well, keep chanting then.

[TheForsaken]

McGillis has already made bad decisions in SS1. He had a best friend who trusted him no matter what and a woman who was crazy in love with him and he decided to kill them off? Seriously, he could just wait a few years for the old men to retire and then he, Carta and Gaelio would become the heads of their houses, then he would have had much better chance to reform Gjallarhorn than what he has now.