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Link #31361 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Regarding Kinzo in Turn, perhaps Battler is in fact lying about seeing Kinzo do to his new found belief in magic he obviously didn't see butterflies. Perhaps when he accepts magic and becomes Beatrice's furniture he is actually because an accomplice to Beatrice and therefore hides the fact that Kinzo is dead.
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Link #31362 | |
Senior Member
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Link #31363 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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Link #31364 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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That interview sure is interesting, because Ryu is saying not that she couldn't choose between the three, but more that she was unwilling to let the any of the romances fail. It's like suicide was her plan all along, but she can't let a character die until their goal is achieved. Shannon can go at any time, as she gets the ring, Kanon does often die after a touching scene with Jessica and Beatrice dies once when she gives up and then once when Battler completes her. Also while saying she sacrificed herself to keep everyone else on the island alive is sweet in the theory of the story, in practice it is a little bit bonkers. FURTHERMORE, did he say Battler was fished out YEARS later? What? |
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Link #31365 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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A side note, but I have to say dealing with Yasu's name has always been a bit difficult, because Yasu isn't Shannon or Kanon or Beatrice or Ikuko or anything. It's just the name we gave to the ultimate controller of that person's body. In Ikuko=Yasu, Ikuko is not really Yasu any more or less than Shannon or Beatrice is... Then again, even the personality structure of Yasu is a subject of debate and discussion. |
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Link #31366 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Link #31367 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Just wondering... it goes on like in the first part through all the video? Because it's terribly... verbose in the beginning. He could have said the same thing using the 10% of the words he used... Quote:
The dialogue between Beato and Shannon is interesting. Shannon says she doesn't want to use Beato's magic to get George's love because as of now everything has been peaceful and Beato's magic would change it and Beato agrees. If Shannon doesn't do as Beato says, nothing will change, everything will stay as it is and she'll never have a chance at love. It really seems an inner monologue between chosing if doing something and just letting things as they are but, with the implication that doing something maybe will give Shannon's George's love but it'll also will cause lot of troubles. The following parts are also interesting. Shannon gets to be with George and be happy thanks to Beato but then Beato confesses she did it only on a whim and with the purpose to tear them apart. If we consider Beato and Shannon are the same person it means more or less than Yasu longed for love (confirmed by Ep 7 in which she says it doesn't matter where it is as long as she's welcomed and loved) so she tried to have it with George because she had the chance to pursue it however she didn't really plan for a long term relation possibly also because she believed a long term relation would work as Kanon insists. In fact he too confesses he would like to pursue love but refuses to believe it oculd work. Quote:
I mean, there's who says that statistically girls prefer stories with a tragic ending, like let's say Titanic or Romeo and Juliet. The scene in which Beato drown herself is likely not the exact truth on how things went. Before it Featherine threw a rose in the sea and the text said: Quote:
So the whole weird talk about girls' preferences doesn't apply to choices in life but to choices in how to end a fantasy story. Ryukishi assumes for a girl like Beato it'll be more romantic to write a tale in which all the three love be fulfilled in the golden land, for Beato to drown herself satisfied she just had Battler's feelings (similar to how Shannon in Ep 2 said for her it was enough to have George ask her to marry him) instead than just have Beato live a happy life with Battler and who cares about Shannon and Kanon's love story (he seems to link this choice with also part of the truth of Rokkenjima being revealed... I wonder if this means that, since Beato could only live on Rokkenjima, due to the set of rules she herself created, in order to leave she would have to turn into her true form or something like that). Which is opinable (I would have preferred Beato and Battler to leave together and I'm a girl) but it could have some basis in how many girls like tragic love stories (not that they want to live them though) and, as far as I'm involved, is more acceptable than saying that, in real life, all girls are satisfied with just souls joined together. It can be fine and dandy in a story but, in real life, that's nowhere near enough. Quote:
After all Beato too is the representation of the rules of the gameboard and Will also seems to represent another set of rules. Maybe the sidestory about Cornelia tells us more about Dlanor as well but as far as i know it hasn't been translated yet... or has it? Quote:
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Link #31368 |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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I just realized that KNM's "living human bodies" = "people" definition doesn't work, because then "These 6 people are dead" becomes "These 6 living human bodies are dead", which contradicts itself.
He's like that the whole way through. |
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Link #31369 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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I mean I don't like red twisting either, but I don't think you can demonstrably prove the red is referring to bodies when it says persons, especially since Erika felt compelled to force Battler to be specific about it.
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Link #31370 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Can somebody explain what the hell is wrong with the time in EP 1?
![]() Eva and Hideyoshi were in their room at 7 (so said the TV). The smell of Kinzos corpse was noticed at 6:30 according to the Clock in the hall. ![]() Important or just a mistake from Ryukishi? |
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Link #31371 |
黄金の魔女 Golden Witch
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Natal-RN, Brazil
Age: 22
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I'm assuming that you're talking about the anime since you mentioned "clock in the hall, so I can't check right now (no episodes at hand at the moment). Assume it was an (yet another) error from DEEN.
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Link #31372 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Cause of Death.Yup fits. Murder by another person: I asked that before regarding being killed by others and it was answered that it was ambigious in japanese being brought up that Beato was denying herself which is the same as suicide in her case. Quote:
Same one where Maria draws 6 people into the sand when the 9th Twilight was brought on the Beach by Battler..Natsuhi,Battler,Maria and Rosa are clearly visibly drawn by Maria.The other 2 remained unfinished yet shortly before its indicated Maria drew 2 tiny circles into someones face when the others had dots as eyes. Followed by: "Everyone dies noone survive" and a wave destroys the drawing at the same time that was said. |
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Link #31374 | |
Senior Member
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The Japanese is 楼座と真里亞の二人は他殺です the word tasatsu (他殺) means the act of killing by another person than the one being killed. So a (too) direct translation would be, "These two people, who are Rosa and Maria, were killed by another person than themselves." Concerning Beato it is rather the other way around as well. When asked about the locked room chain in the same Episode Beato refuses to repeat the sentence "All 6 were murdered by another person", then admits "None of the 6 commited suicide" and was only stopped by Ronove when trying to repeat "None of the 6 died through an accident." She also refuses to repeat "Kanon was murdered by another person" in EP4 during the final duel about EP1, which leads Battler to assume that he died through an accident because that is neither murder nor suicide. |
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Link #31375 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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It's pretty silly that so many people can't believe Shkanon just because of that red. |
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Link #31376 | ||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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KnownNoMore's fundamental flaw... well one of them... is that he doesn't view red as communication between characters, but rather an absolute, perfect word of God from Ryukishi himself. It's like red is the bible to him, which is ironic because he's- you'd know this if you watch some of his other videos- extremely atheistic. I still think it can, it just can't mean what KNM says it does. There are other words with fishy definitions in Umineko, like "exist" and "dead". And, if you watch Renall's video, "everyone". |
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Link #31377 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Speaking of exists, I had a question.
In the VN, whenever anyone (including Maria) says Beatrice exists, it's always written as " Beatrice 'exists' " Is this the same in the Japanese version, and if so, does it have the same implications as in English? Because if I were to use air quotations (which admittedly are written as ") in a sentence, it would usually mean that I am adding an emphasis to the word to imply that I am either using the meaning a bit loosely, acknowledging that what I am saying is probably a lie or outright pointing out that while I am agreeing to use that word, I know %100 it is false (ie, oh sure, the "Cat" ate all the chocolate). This would be fine if most people used it, but Maria too? |
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Link #31378 |
黄金の魔女 Golden Witch
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Natal-RN, Brazil
Age: 22
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I think it is because Onscripter lacks the possibilty of using bold and italics for example, and the only way to emphatize a word is like that. They actually aren't using air quotes, but putting emphasis on the word "exist", like they mean: Beatrice exists, but not in the same way I or you exist.
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Link #31379 | |
Senior Member
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In Japanese there is a distinction between existing as an object or concept (ある=aru) and existing as a being (いる=iru), so by marking it "i"ru it is less a question of whether Beatrice exists in general terms but rather being vague about whether she exists as a being or simply as an object or concept on the island. |
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