Ichigo and Rukia? or Ichigo and Orihime?

[niffum]

@Alea Misa - Thank you ^^ I'm sorry that I kind of misunderstood your last-post-but-one as yes, Orihime definitely has trouble finding where she fits and who she is. As this has so far been one of this arc's main issues, I'm not too worried about it being a permanent problem.

[dim sum]

Eh, I don't really see Orihime as graceful. Words that come to mind do include gentle, kind, endearing, cute, and you can't really get away from it, buxom. (OffT: would Orihime be Orihime without her breasts? OnT: would IchiOri be IchiOri without her breasts?)

It is certainly interesting to note the similarities and differences in the eastern and western fanbases. Is the Hitsugaya fandom as big in western cultures?

Anyhow, other than the common "she really loves him so much and deserves him," it always puzzles me when some IchiOri fans state that Ichigo is kinder and gentler with Orihime. The inference being that he is more so with her than anyone else or specifically with Rukia. For goodness' sake, the boy isn't a total punk. How else is he supposed to treat her? Everyone treats her kindly and gently. (Except the Arrancar.) Ichigo is fully capable of being kind and gentle: see little ghost girl, his sisters, Nell, etc.

Give me the zest of Ichigo and Rukia any day.

[Adam E]

Originally Posted by Lendra-chan

Rukia is graceful, beautiful and gentle. But those sides of her are not overtly dominant, and not everyone sees her as such. Miyako was known for such qualities which Orihime is as well. It's their dominant characteristics.

I think you should consider that the only knowledge we have about Miyako comes from Rukia's perspective, whom admits to idolizing her and whose view of Miyako probably isn't very accurate. "Admiration is the opposite of understanding," according to Aizen. I don't think considering what we really know about Rukia's persona should be considered here, since we don't really know everything about Miyako. We know that Rukia's grace, beauty, and gentleness are only part of her dynamic character; however, that pretty much sums up Orihime's analysis of Rukia.

"Kuchiki-san is so gentle...so strong...so pretty..." according to Orihime in Chapter 199; it sounds very much like Rukia's assessment of Miyako. Now, Orihime looks much more like Rukia did back in her Kaien flashback instead of Miyako. The only major difference is Orihime is definitely jealous of Rukia's relationship with Ichigo while Rukia seemed to simply accept Kaien's bond with Miyako. Nonetheless, I believe Orhime is intended to parallel Rukia's role in the Rukia-Kaien-Miyako relationship while Ichigo and Rukia represent Kaien and Miyako, respectively.

Furthermore, I think this supports Rukia x Ichigo while diminishing the possibility of Ichigo x Orihime happening.

Originally Posted by dim sum

Eh, I don't really see Orihime as graceful. Words that come to mind do include gentle, kind, endearing, cute, and you can't really get away from it, buxom. (OffT: would Orihime be Orihime without her breasts? OnT: would IchiOri be IchiOri without her breasts?)

I don't think Orihime has ever been portrayed as graceful, or elegant. In fact, I'd say she's the opposite of that: a klutz.

Originally Posted by dim sum

It is certainly interesting to note the similarities and differences in the eastern and western fanbases. Is the Hitsugaya fandom as big in western cultures?

I hope Hitsugaya is not as popular in Western cultures since I don't believe he deserves the popularity he enjoys in Japan.

Originally Posted by dim sum

Anyhow, other than the common "she really loves him so much and deserves him," it always puzzles me when some IchiOri fans state that Ichigo is kinder and gentler with Orihime. The inference being that he is more so with her than anyone else or specifically with Rukia. For goodness' sake, the boy isn't a total punk. How else is he supposed to treat her? Everyone treats her kindly and gently. (Except the Arrancar.) Ichigo is fully capable of being kind and gentle: see little ghost girl, his sisters, Nell, etc.

Well, when people argue that Ichigo likes Orihime because he's nicer to her, I don't think they're considering that Ichigo reciprocates others' sentiments towards him. In other words, if someone acts rude to him, he does the same to them; so, when someone is always polite towards him, he's courteous in return.

[SaraPandora27]

Originally Posted by Adam E

I think you should consider that the only knowledge we have about Miyako comes from Rukia's perspective, whom admits to idolizing her and whose view of Miyako probably isn't very accurate. "Admiration is the opposite of understanding," according to Aizen. I don't think considering what we really know about Rukia's persona should be considered here, since we don't really know everything about Miyako. We know that Rukia's grace, beauty, and gentleness are only part of her dynamic character; however, that pretty much sums up Orihime's analysis of Rukia.

"Kuchiki-san is so gentle...so strong...so pretty..." according to Orihime in Chapter 199; it sounds very much like Rukia's assessment of Miyako. Now, Orihime looks much more like Rukia did back in her Kaien flashback instead of Miyako. The only major difference is Orihime is definitely jealous of Rukia's relationship with Ichigo while Rukia seemed to simply accept Kaien's bond with Miyako. Nonetheless, I believe Orhime is intended to parallel Rukia's role in the Rukia-Kaien-Miyako relationship while Ichigo and Rukia represent Kaien and Miyako, respectively.

Furthermore, I think this supports Rukia x Ichigo while diminishing the possibility of Ichigo x Orihime happening.



I don't think Orihime has ever been portrayed as graceful, or elegant. In fact, I'd say she's the opposite of that: a klutz.



I hope Hitsugaya is not as popular in Western cultures since I don't believe he deserves the popularity he enjoys in Japan.



Well, when people argue that Ichigo likes Orihime because he's nicer to her, I don't think they're considering that Ichigo reciprocates others' sentiments towards him. In other words, if someone acts rude to him, he does the same to them; so, when someone is always polite towards him, he's courteous in return.

Anyway, I don't think Ichigo would be so silly as to act like a jerk with everybody.

[Forever_young]

Originally Posted by dim sum

Anyhow, other than the common "she really loves him so much and deserves him," it always puzzles me when some IchiOri fans state that Ichigo is kinder and gentler with Orihime. The inference being that he is more so with her than anyone else or specifically with Rukia. For goodness' sake, the boy isn't a total punk. How else is he supposed to treat her? Everyone treats her kindly and gently. (Except the Arrancar.) Ichigo is fully capable of being kind and gentle: see little ghost girl, his sisters, Nell, etc.

That point about Ichigo being kind to Orihime tells us he's not that close and comfortable around her. He even calls her by her surname (I know alot of you think Inoue is her name but thats her family name. I think people got mixed up because in Japan people write their surname first)

I mean with Rukia, he's comfortable and close enough to call her by her name and argue with each other.

Eh, I don't really see Orihime as graceful. Words that come to mind do include gentle, kind, endearing, cute, and you can't really get away from it, buxom. (OffT: would Orihime be Orihime without her breasts? OnT: would IchiOri be IchiOri without her breasts?)

I'm actually kinda happy how KT drew Rukia. No offesense but most people see Orihime as this pretty faced girl with huge breast, but he drew Rukia much deeper. And like alot of people said, Rukia's strong, beautiful, smart and gentle (Orihime said that as well)

Ichi x Ruki 4eva!

[Sequora]

Hi everyone! I lurked in this thread forever and finally decided to sign up.

Ichigo x Rukia all the way!

@Starwing

As for the interpretations within the different cultures and societies, I believe it all depends on a few factors:

1) What do people perceive as beautiful? It all depends on the person in question. Some men and women love big breasts and hour-glass shapes, while others prefer a smaller, less attractive shape. I'm a girl (obviously by my name) but I'm most definitely western. But I find girls like Rukia to be very beautiful because she is small and her curves are not as standing out as Orihime's.
IMO, women like Orihime are starting to get boring and out-dated. Why? Because we see this type of woman in magazines, celebrities, and practically anywhere in real life, especially in western society. So it's very refreshing, for me, to see a different type of woman take shape without having to go through lipo-suction or implants. This new freshness, IMO, is what probably attracts many people to Rukia instead of Hime. (Now if only we can see more plus size models ) I also like Rukia's attitude towards a lot of things and her bluntness. I don't know how many people I meet that try to go around things when I just want a 'yes' or 'no'. I hate that. Now that I think on it, Rukia sort of fits more into a Western culture feel than Orihime.

2) Like someone stated earlier, it also depends on what type of woman a partner is looking for? Are they looking for a partner who is sweet, unargumentative, wants to please all the time, or are they looking for a woman who will stand up on her own two feet with little to no assistance, stubborn, and will take up a fight.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Asian society (at least a couple of decades ago, maybe even still now) many families taught their daughters to be respectful and obedient to their future husbands so that they do not shame them. I also think that in some families, they still have arranged marriages. In Western society, especially in America, many families have adopted the notion that their daughters choose their preferences and show respect, but at the same time, the western culture is very rebellious compared to the humble Asian.

3) Westerners love a good romance story whether it's Romeo and Juliette or Cinderella. I suppose you can say Orihime fits the description of both Juliette and Cinderella. Also, because Orihime seems to be sweet and humble, many westerners would wish her a good life compared to the blunt Rukia, whom some may perceive as a *itch.
Well, that's all I can think of for right now. You can agree or disagree, it doesn't matter to me. I just enjoy reading what other opinions people have and what their take on the topic may be.

Back on topic:

Chapter 270 pretty much slapped me in the face with the fierce determination that Ichigo showed to get to Rukia. Many people can argue the fact that he didn't get angry until Ulquiorra mentioned Inoue, but the fact still remains that Ichigo would have turned back for Rukia with or without Inoue, that he had a small inclination Inoue did betray them, and that he truly didn't want to fight Ulqu, thus the reason he wanted to end the fight so suddenly. And let's not forget that Ichigo tried to run away as well. lol.
Also, Ichigo and Orihime spend very little time around each other. She's never been in his room, compared to Rukia and Tatsuki who have. When Rukia was takin away to SS, Ichigo was surprised that Hime remembered Rukia and even more surprised that she wanted to go with him to SS to bring Rukia back, even though Hime only wanted to go to SS to protect Ichigo. They still don't interact as much in school either. I'm just not seeing their love at all for each other.
And yes, Chapter 237 was kinda weird. I did like the speech part because I'll admit that I'm a romantic at heart (but I hate the mushy-mushy kind, please do that in private and give me some details later ) But if I found out someone was in my room and attempted to kiss me, I would flip out. Trust me, if something like that really would have happened, I probably would have shot the sucker who came breaking into my home. And it was quite cowardly of her, IMO, to confess her feelings to Ichigo while he was asleep and out of it, plus the fact of her being invisible.

So sorry for the long post. I'm shutting up now.

[ashesatdusk]

>@Ashesatdusk: Of course Ichigo would have a hard time believing that any of his friend's to be dead or might have died. What good would that do? He would just get depressed and gloomy again. He cannot afford to have a chaotic heart in times of battle.

Spoiler:

You missed my point. People have made a case that ichigo's love for rukia is shown by the fact that he tries to go save her as soon as he hears that Rukia is dead. My case is that he'd have this reaction with any of his friends, in mid battle, because uptil now Ichigo never has really believed that any of his nakama have died when their reitsu has faded. In this case he's been told by an enemy, that rukia is confirmed dead (irregardless if its true or not). I think that if chad's reatsu is fading and he was told that chad had been killed, he'd turn around too try to save chad too. I don't see this as the claims that some have made, that his reaction supports the ichigo X Rukia pairing.

[Adam E]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

You missed my point. People have made a case that ichigo's love for rukia is shown by the fact that he tries to go save her as soon as he hears that Rukia is dead. My case is that he'd have this reaction with any of his friends, in mid battle, because uptil now Ichigo never has really believed that any of his nakama have died when their reitsu has faded. In this case he's been told by an enemy, that rukia is confirmed dead (irregardless if its true or not). I think that if chad's reatsu is fading and he was told that chad had been killed, he'd turn around too try to save chad too. I don't see this as the claims that some have made, that his reaction supports the ichigo X Rukia pairing.

Spoiler:

Does Ichigo really believe Rukia is dead, though? Your point hinges on this, and I haven't seen anything in the manga to convince me Ichigo believes she's dead. It doesn't make sense to me for him to go rushing off towards her if he really thinks she kicked the bucket.

[Forever_young]

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

>@Ashesatdusk: Of course Ichigo would have a hard time believing that any of his friend's to be dead or might have died. What good would that do? He would just get depressed and gloomy again. He cannot afford to have a chaotic heart in times of battle.


You missed my point. People have made a case that ichigo's love for rukia is shown by the fact that he tries to go save her as soon as he hears that Rukia is dead. My case is that he'd have this reaction with any of his friends, in mid battle, because uptil now Ichigo never has really believed that any of his nakama have died when their reitsu has faded. In this case he's been told by an enemy, that rukia is confirmed dead (irregardless if its true or not). I think that if chad's reatsu is fading and he was told that chad had been killed, he'd turn around too try to save chad too. I don't see this as the claims that some have made, that his reaction supports the ichigo X Rukia pairing.

Spoiler:

Actually what concerns me is that the ability of the 9th Espada. When he dies he can transfer images and give informations to his other Espadas right? I mean KT made that ability so the audiences can see Ichigo’s reaction towards Rukia’s ‘death’
When Chad’s reiatsu was fading he did deny it but wasn’t emotional about it compared to Rukia’s ‘death’
And have you all noticed KT always drew Ichigo’s backside when he says something meaningful or emotional like ‘Rukia’s not dead. I’m going to Save Rukia’ or the time when he told Kisuke he’s going to Soul Society to save Rukia

KT has done absolutely nothing special about the Ichi x Ori relationship. If they are going to end up together (I hope not) he should atleast done something like the Ichi x Ruki relationship like “Black Sun White Moon”, Memories in the Rain, make it rain when Orihime left but he just drew their relationship one-sided. Ichigo does care about her but I don’t see why people will turn it into a romantic one.

Personally I think Bleach fanz these days are too focused on the HM arc and are completely forgetting everything that happened in Soul Society.

[ashesatdusk]

Spoiler:

>Does Ichigo really believe Rukia is dead, though? Your point hinges on this, and I haven't seen anything in the manga to convince me Ichigo believes she's dead. It doesn't make sense to me for him to go rushing off towards her if he really thinks she kicked the bucket.

I really should explain what I'm trying to get at a bit better, and I'm not sure how. I'm saying that this is one of those cases where ichigo isn't 100% certain that Rukia is alive as opposed to earlier in the manga. I don't think there was a scenario where ichigo thought at any point his nakama (SP?) may have died. There were times he was unsure of their where abouts, or new they may have be seriously injured. In this scene he's told that Rukia is dead, Rukias reitsu is miniscule, or fadiing. So he has uncertain of her condition. My point if he was told that any of his nakama were dead, and their reitsu is fading or miniscule, I think its possible he may react in a similair way. My personal interpretation, is that his actions in 270 are not suffecient evidence as him acting out of any romantic feelings towards rukia.

Again 247 and 248, to me, give far stronger support for this pairing then what occurs in 270.

[Adam E]

Now that I think about it, these need spoiler tags.

Spoiler for Chapter 270:

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

I really should explain what I'm trying to get at a bit better, and I'm not sure how. I'm saying that this is one of those cases where ichigo isn't 100% certain that Rukia is alive as opposed to earlier in the manga. I don't think there was a scenario where ichigo thought at any point his nakama (SP?) may have died. There were times he was unsure of their where abouts, or new they may have be seriously injured.

Actually, I think someone tells Ichigo in the Soul Society arc that Chad died, much like Ulquiorra tells Ichigo that Rukia is dead, but Ichigo didn't go rushing off to save him.

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

In this scene he's told that Rukia is dead, Rukias reitsu is miniscule, or fadiing. So he has uncertain of her condition.

How do you know he's uncertain, though? He says he doesn't believe what Ulquiorra says. For that matter, what makes you so certain Ichigo isn't uncertain that Chad might be dead, as well?

[ashesatdusk]

Spoiler:

>Actually, I think someone tells Ichigo in the Soul Society arc that Chad died, much like Ulquiorra tells Ichigo that Rukia is dead, but Ichigo didn't go rushing off to save him.

No Ichigo sense that Chad lost and his spiritual pressure is fading. Then pauses (While running from Zarachi) and realizes that he can still feel a weak Reitsu from chad and decides he's alive.

Go back and Read SS Chapter 108 Volume 13.

Spoiler:

>How do you know he's uncertain, though? He says he doesn't believe what Ulquiorra says. For that matter, what makes you so certain Ichigo isn't uncertain that Chad might be dead, as well?

Spoiler:

says he doesn't believe Espada 4 (Couldn't spell his name to save my life). The thing is that doesn't mean he can't doubt his own words. The expression on his face and his reaction read an element of doubt. He says something along the lines "With out fighting her how would you know that she's dead" Espada 4 explains espada's 9 powers, then Ichigo turns around and says he's doesn't believe him and their fight begins. I don't Ichigo would ask how would you know with out fighting her... if he wasn't doubt free. But this is how i'm reading the scenario and not a garuntee what I think is really right. My point more is along the lines, that you really can't say the way he reacts in that scene is Ichigo's love for Rukia, as in it really isn't strong evidence for an IchiRukia argument, but at the same time I also think IchiRukia is the most likely couple by far. Its just my reading didn't see a strong evidence for an argument from chapter 270. Though I saw strong arguments based on earlier chaps in the arch. I also think that the only way Ichigo and Inoue might end up together, is if Inoue can reject Ichigo x Rukia after it happens

[Tyan]

*off topic*:

Is there anyone who would bother to add pages 13, 14 and 15 in chapter 248? I tried to download it at Bleach Exile, and they won't show -_-' Sorry, I just don't know where else to ask for such a thing

[Starwing]

@ashesatdusk

Spoiler:

You missed my point. People have made a case that ichigo's love for rukia is shown by the fact that he tries to go save her as soon as he hears that Rukia is dead. My case is that he'd have this reaction with any of his friends, in mid battle, because uptil now Ichigo never has really believed that any of his nakama have died when their reitsu has faded. In this case he's been told by an enemy, that rukia is confirmed dead (irregardless if its true or not). I think that if chad's reatsu is fading and he was told that chad had been killed, he'd turn around too try to save chad too. I don't see this as the claims that some have made, that his reaction supports the ichigo X Rukia pairing.

The thing is though, we're talking about circumstances, and Kubo controls all circumstances in the plot. If he wanted, he could easily have made someone tell Ichigo about Chad and caused Ichigo to turn back. He didn't.

So therefore, Ichigo probably would've gone back if he's been told that his friends are dead. But he DIDN'T because the situation didn't arise. Why didn't the situation arise? Because Kubo didn't write it. Why didn't Kubo write it? Because it wasn't as important as the fact that Ichigo turned back for Rukia specifically.

Using the fact that 'Ichigo would've gone back for any of them' in this case is purely hypothetical because he hasn't yet. Rather, the opposite has more evidence. Ichigo HAS felt his friends endangered before and did practically nothing.

270 did feel significant to me because this is only the third time Ichigo forgot his duties. 1) running from Shrieker to get Karin home, it's his sister, and we know how much he dotes on his sisters. 2) Getting sidetracked with Ganju in SS, which was for comedic purposes and I'm not sure how much it's significant. 3) Here in HM, where he turned back for Rukia.

Getting sidetracked is something that Ichigo just doesn't do. You can almost say it's out of character, and only a few situations and people has caused him to act OOC, this is one of them.


@Tyan, try downloading from bleach7 or ju-ni. Their downloads are whole as far as I can tell. I personally recommend Ju-Ni because their translations are more coherent in some cases.

[sorbet]

I agree with Starwing that ch 270 was significant.

Spoiler for about ch 270:

One could argued that Ichigo would have done the same for any of his friends but the truth is he never did. Not that we known of. Kubo could have Ichigo paused, had some moral dilemma and continued his mission and said 'I believe in Rukia'. But he put Ichigo in the position that he would definitely go back for Rukia. Not to mention it was the worst time to discovered that Orihime was kidnapped. Now instead of fully concentrated on fighting for Orihime, Ichigo's priority shifted to Rukia.

Even if people don't believe ch 270 supported IchiRuki, at least they have to know that it killed IchiOri in the worst way. Ichigo/Ulquiorra confrontation could have been all about Orihime. Ichigo could have discovered how she was kidnapped and fight for her. Now none of this happen and it done nothing to strengthen IchiOri bond. If Ichigo gain concious, he would still rush to Rukia instead of going to Orihime.

[obentou]

I'd say Inoue dies for a good cause, and makes for a sad incident in Bleach ^^. And then Rukia/Ichigo will get together.

That is my very naive prediction!

[Alea Misa]

@ Niffum: ^^ S'okay, the discussion helped with more clarification. Hopefully, things will start moving along in this arc soon. Waiting is hard to do.

@ashesatdusk:

Spoiler for Clarification:

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk:
You missed my point. People have made a case that ichigo's love for rukia is shown by the fact that he tries to go save her as soon as he hears that Rukia is dead. My case is that he'd have this reaction with any of his friends, in mid battle, because uptil now Ichigo never has really believed that any of his nakama have died when their reitsu has faded. In this case he's been told by an enemy, that rukia is confirmed dead (irregardless if its true or not). I think that if chad's reatsu is fading and he was told that chad had been killed, he'd turn around too try to save chad too. I don't see this as the claims that some have made, that his reaction supports the ichigo X Rukia pairing.

Similar to what Adam, starwing, sequora, forever young, and sorbert have said. I'd like to add:

No, I believe that I haven't missed what your point. What I was trying to convey is that, if Ichigo knew he failed to save his friends, he would get depressed and gloomy again, especially if the one who has 'died' or is near dead is Rukia. Because she was the one who made that heartfelt speech about the kind of man Ichigo is in her heart. Her words and the meaning is set into his own heart. The kind of man that would always get stronger and protect his friends, and those that are innocent, the kind of man that wouldn't be too scared to find the resolve to fight his enemies. Chapter 196. As you've seen the chapters before 196, how Ichigo got so scared and so ashamed that he failed to protect any of his friends, then when Rukia came back, she lifted that issue of his, and straightened him up back on his feet. Then again, when Rukia got seriously injured by Grimmjow, he wouldn't accept for that kind of failure again, so he decided to grow the spine to find a way to suppress his Hollow with the Vaizards. Why is Rukia always the seemingly last blow to get Ichigo moving to get stronger? She must truly mean something to him more than simply a 'friend.' KT was just being consistant and is building up their relationship, except this time, it has more of an impact.
What good would it do for Ichigo if the one person who has always given him strength, motivation, and hope is 'dead' or near death? What good would it do, if he knew he failed to protect and be the man that Rukia holds in her heart? I don't doubt that Ichigo cares for his friends on his own, and feels some type of responsibilty for them. As I believe that he would go back to his friend(s) if he was informed that they are dead or near it, and no one was there to help save them. Though the parallel that I believe KT drew on between Chad and Inoue was trying to convey that his first priority is Rukia, and that has always been true throughout the manga, not only in chapter 270. This doesn't deprive the kind of depth Ichigo's character has, but makes a clear statement of what he wants and his feelings for other characters.

[monir]

A bit off-topic: I'm starting to sense there are some of you who are discussing events from the manga that have yet to happen in the anime without using clearly marked spoiler tags. This is a thread where any manga related discussion need to be put under spoiler tags so the anime-only viewers are given the choice to exercise their own discretion if a spoiler tag should be opened. You have 24 hours to edit your post, add spoiler tags, modify, etc if you believe you are one of the guilty. After that duration, I'll have one of the mods who are familiar with the manga, read this thread 5-6 pages back.

Just so it is known, the punishment for unwanted spoilers earn a poster a 3-day BAN in any thread that doesn't have the [manga] tag in the title. I hope this message will be taken seriously.

If anything from the above doesn't make sense, then please feel free to PM me since I don't want to venture into the off-topic territory from this topic of discussion.

[Uchih@]

Ichi X Ori rockss

[ashesatdusk]

@ Starwing

Spoiler:

>The thing is though, we're talking about circumstances, and Kubo controls all circumstances in the plot. If he wanted, he could easily have made someone tell Ichigo about Chad and caused Ichigo to turn back. He didn't.

So therefore, Ichigo probably would've gone back if he's been told that his friends are dead. But he DIDN'T because the situation didn't arise. Why didn't the situation arise? Because Kubo didn't write it. Why didn't Kubo write it? Because it wasn't as important as the fact that Ichigo turned back for Rukia specifically.

Using the fact that 'Ichigo would've gone back for any of them' in this case is purely hypothetical because he hasn't yet. Rather, the opposite has more evidence. Ichigo HAS felt his friends endangered before and did practically nothing.

270 did feel significant to me because this is only the third time Ichigo forgot his duties. 1) running from Shrieker to get Karin home, it's his sister, and we know how much he dotes on his sisters. 2) Getting sidetracked with Ganju in SS, which was for comedic purposes and I'm not sure how much it's significant. 3) Here in HM, where he turned back for Rukia.

Getting sidetracked is something that Ichigo just doesn't do. You can almost say it's out of character, and only a few situations and people has caused him to act OOC, this is one of them.


1. The significance is the fact Ichigo is turning around for Rukia? Rukia's the only person in that situation at the moment. Everyone else is alive or in middle of a fight. My point is you don't know how Ichigo would act if its another character. The Mangaka has not drawn that situation, I don't its occured at any other time. Yes his friends have been endangered and he's done practically nothing, at the same time I don't think he actually thought any of them would die. This situation is unique in the case, that he's been told one of his Nakama is dead, and he knows at the least in mortal peril. My point is not he would do the same for any of them. My point is you can't say that this is significant because he's going back for Rukia, because you don't know what he'd do if it was one of his another nakama.

2. You can argue that point is irrelavant, because the Mangaka did not draw the other situations, and the mangaka controls everything in bleach. But that still does not entail that the fact, Ichigo going after Rukia is a significant sign of anything supporting IchixRukia. Sure he's going after Rukia, but what is the significance is decided by the Mangaka not anyone else. The arguments we have are a result of how we choose to interpret things.


I've read 270 over and over, and I'm not seeing what some are claiming from any of 265-270 as any support. But the key also is I'm not seeing. and I don't think its a case of me refusing to see as I'm an ichixrukia or IchixNoone supporter.

I think the strongest scene of significance of any IchixRukia pairing, was Ichigo's reaction at the gate, at any point in this archive by far.