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Old 2010-06-21, 14:45   Link #41
Vexx
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Originally Posted by TJR View Post
I don't think anyone's denying that. However, by saying that Kimikiss changed demographics, you're employing that they started targeting women, which isn't true.

They may have misunderstood the intolerance for multi-character romances among otaku. They may also have downplayed the sexual atmosphere (which isn't usually a problem, given the success of shows like Kanon or AIR).

However, Kimikiss was always geared toward the same audience, which is why it failed. Most likely, the director wanted to present a different angle to a typical harem formula to make it more refreshing for fans. Nevertheless, making it "josei" was never the intention. Rather, they added a few twists to the standard shounen formula (inspired by female-oriented romances) that otaku couldn't stomach for reasons they didn't anticipate.

You can also think back to Kannagi and the uproar (fortunately, that occurred after the series already won so many fans. However, if they'd established it from the start - in fact, throw in some recurring confirmation that Nagi had slept with several guys in the past but present the same show otherwise - who knows how things might've turned out?). Being able to read the audience and understand their way of thinking is crucial.
I think the bolded sentence hits it on the head. The primary audience for the source material is very comfortable in their very deep rut. This is sad because it punishes innovation -- and frankly, there's some real shallow stories in that deep rut. Its probably one of the reasons I'm liking the subversive undercurrents recent authors are throwing in that the rage-otaku are missing on their "no innovation allowed" radar. I'll just keep searching for the exceptions amongst the usual.

On the positive side, it looks like each "parallel universe" is going to get sufficient time budget to tell an interesting story about each "heroine".
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Old 2010-06-21, 14:54   Link #42
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJR View Post
I don't think anyone's denying that. However, by saying that Kimikiss changed demographics, you're employing that they started targeting women, which isn't true.

They may have misunderstood the intolerance for multi-character romances among otaku. They may also have downplayed the sexual atmosphere (which isn't usually a problem, given the success of shows like Kanon or AIR).

However, Kimikiss was always geared toward the same audience, which is why it failed. Most likely, the director wanted to present a different angle to a typical harem formula to make it more refreshing for fans. Nevertheless, making it "josei" was never the intention. Rather, they added a few twists to the standard shounen formula (inspired by female-oriented romances) that otaku couldn't stomach for reasons they didn't anticipate.

You can also think back to Kannagi and the uproar (fortunately, that occurred after the series already won so many fans. However, if they'd established it from the start - in fact, throw in some recurring confirmation that Nagi had slept with several guys in the past but present the same show otherwise - who knows how things might've turned out?). Being able to read the audience and understand their way of thinking is crucial.
The one thing I've always wondered about is why Kimikiss got slagged for having multiple protagonists while EF: A Tale of Memories also had multiple protagonists and was moderately successful. Is it just that EF had those protagonists in there from the beginning?
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Old 2010-06-21, 15:09   Link #43
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
The one thing I've always wondered about is why Kimikiss got slagged for having multiple protagonists while EF: A Tale of Memories also had multiple protagonists and was moderately successful. Is it just that EF had those protagonists in there from the beginning?
It may be as simple (o.O) as that .... the EF source material allowed the player to select multiple protagonists to play each arc. But there are a manageable number of ladies (4) in the two EF games where as KKPR's game had 6(?) ... outside of handling it like the KKPR manga is doing (parallel universe time), having one protagonist go after six girls in an integrated plot in the space of a series without wreaking havoc on the storylines... well, good luck with that writing assignment.

The Amagami SS staff is (safely and wisely for $$$) taking the parallel universe route it seems... I'm more okay with that than some ridiculous "gotta catch 'em all" series (though I still enjoyed the ensemble reweaving idea the best, I'm clearly in the minority there).
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Old 2010-06-21, 15:30   Link #44
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
The one thing I've always wondered about is why Kimikiss got slagged for having multiple protagonists while EF: A Tale of Memories also had multiple protagonists and was moderately successful. Is it just that EF had those protagonists in there from the beginning?
ef had two male protagonists, but each had a different girls. I thought Kimikiss was ingenious when they split the protagonist into two so they can include the other girls into a manageable story. Plus I think Kimikiss was more of a dating sim while ef was a VN. Someone can feel free to confirm or correct me.
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Old 2010-06-21, 15:35   Link #45
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
It may be as simple (o.O) as that .... the EF source material allowed the player to select multiple protagonists to play each arc. But there are a manageable number of ladies (4) in the two EF games where as KKPR's game had 6(?) ... outside of handling it like the KKPR manga is doing (parallel universe time), having one protagonist go after six girls in an integrated plot in the space of a series without wreaking havoc on the storylines... well, good luck with that writing assignment.

The Amagami SS staff is (safely and wisely for $$$) taking the parallel universe route it seems... I'm more okay with that than some ridiculous "gotta catch 'em all" series (though I still enjoyed the ensemble reweaving idea the best, I'm clearly in the minority there).
Minor correction: You don't get to choose a protagonist in EF, all the pairings are preset, making each chapter pretty much pass/fail. The five pairings are:

Hiro/Miyako
Kyousuke/Kei (cut almost entirely out of the anime due to time and pacing constraints. In the game, it apparently takes place after Hiro/Miyako, but in the anime it seems to take place simultaneously and feels like a last minute "pair the spares" as a result.)
Renji/Chihiro
Kuze/Mizuki
Yuu/Yuuko

So basically, the five couples you saw in the anime with Kei's story getting shafted (pun intended).

I do agree that EF had much easier to adapt source material. Unfortunately I have the suspicion that difficulty in adaptation is what's preventing adaptations for a number of fairly strong VNs.
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Old 2010-06-21, 23:54   Link #46
DragoonKain3
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Looks like we finally have the order of the girls: Each of them has her own ED.

1) Shizuka Itou as Haruka Morishima

2) Rina Satou as Kaoru Tanamachi

3) Hiromi Konno as Sae Nakata

4) Yukana as Ai Nanasaki

5) Ryoko Shintani as Rihoko Sakurai

6) Kaori Nazuka as Tsukasa Ayatsuji
Damn, Sakurai is second to the last? That's too darn long... T_T

On the bright side, this pretty much forces me to watch girls 1-4, and I would probably watch 6 just for completion's sake. I was originally planning to watch just Sakurai's, but I guess you know what they said about the best laid plans...
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Old 2010-06-22, 00:00   Link #47
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This is how Kimikiss pure rouge should have been. I expect this one to do a lot better than the former.
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Old 2010-06-22, 02:43   Link #48
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It has a director with a good track record. Directed: Kaleido Star, Sketchbook, Solty Rei and Working. Also worked on Aria the Natural, Vandread and Kannagi a bit. Also directed ep 3 of Mayoi Neko one of the non sucky episodes of that series and it was character driven something that this series will be about character developing. So I expect something that's in the range of being at least semi good to real good here, don't expect anything bad/disaster like.
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Old 2010-06-24, 21:34   Link #49
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Without Ken Kasai's touches. I am not sure if I can stomach this. But I'm going to give it a few episodes for tries. It sure is a long series but.
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Old 2010-06-24, 23:30   Link #50
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS View Post
It has a director with a good track record. Directed: Kaleido Star, Sketchbook, Solty Rei and Working. Also worked on Aria the Natural, Vandread and Kannagi a bit. Also directed ep 3 of Mayoi Neko one of the non sucky episodes of that series and it was character driven something that this series will be about character developing. So I expect something that's in the range of being at least semi good to real good here, don't expect anything bad/disaster like.
I agree completely. This is one of the shows this summer I am expecting to be good. The director did excellent things with Working, adapting the 4-koma comic strip original in what I thought was a very good way. He can put in some nice touches, too.

There's a link in my sig to detailed previews of all the summer shows, including cast, staff, story, trailer, etc.
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Old 2010-06-25, 08:27   Link #51
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Everyone is getting me all excited here. I'm trying to keep my expectations low so that if it sucks I won't be disappointed and if it's awesome, I'd be surprised and enjoy it more.
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Old 2010-06-25, 09:49   Link #52
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Haha, I'm also trying to keep my expectations low despite the great staff working on this. I'm always wary of visual novels/dating sim anime adaptations.
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Old 2010-06-25, 10:03   Link #53
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I don't have particularly high expectations for this (though I don't think it can go terribly wrong with Hiraike directing), but I definitely enjoyed the latest PV:


Loving the character designs, along with the voice work by Maeno Tomoaki and Itou Shizuka.
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Old 2010-06-25, 10:10   Link #54
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Itou Shizuka is so perfect for her role as Haruka, it's scary.
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Old 2010-06-25, 10:37   Link #55
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Itou Shizuka is so perfect for her role as Haruka, it's scary.
Didn't give it much thought before but after seeing that PV and reading your comment, I have to agree. I think it's that little giggle she gives off at the end that does the trick.

And Tomoaki Maeno as Junichi Tachibana seems to work pretty well going form that PV.

Very much lookig forward to this!
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Old 2010-06-25, 13:39   Link #56
DragoZERO
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And Tomoaki Maeno as Junichi Tachibana seems to work pretty well going form that PV.
He does! I was a little iffy on him. He did a great job in White Album, but the first season he sounded like he had a clothes pin on his nose. It's a good thing that he sounds different enough so that I won't be thinking of White Album. Whenever I hear Mizuki Nana or Hirano Aya, I think of White Album, Rina and Yuki respectively..
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Old 2010-06-25, 13:44   Link #57
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Didn't give it much thought before but after seeing that PV and reading your comment, I have to agree. I think it's that little giggle she gives off at the end that does the trick.
Itou Shizuka has the perfect teasing voice (and giggle :3) for Haruka, so watching her arc is going to be such a treat.
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Old 2010-06-25, 14:09   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Katapan View Post
I don't have particularly high expectations for this (though I don't think it can go terribly wrong with Hiraike directing), but I definitely enjoyed the latest PV:


Loving the character designs, along with the voice work by Maeno Tomoaki and Itou Shizuka.
Not enough sex hair in that PV. Hearing Shizuka Itou compensated for it, though.
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Old 2010-06-25, 14:29   Link #59
DragoZERO
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Not enough sex hair in that PV. Hearing Shizuka Itou compensated for it, though.
Sex hair?? Is that one a quirk of one of the girls??
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Old 2010-06-25, 14:46   Link #60
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Sex hair?? Is that one a quirk of one of the girls??
Yes, sex hair.

I was referring to Kaoru Tanamachi, one of the main girls who appears at 0:04.
(Which is also my favorite character of the series so far)
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