(L) Log Horizon (novel)

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by Estavali

This chapter also brings back Krusty's "Will there be war" question. Previously the focus has always been on the Adventurers, whether they would follow a path of conquest and subjugation, or at least behave like brigands in a lawless world. However, the chapter throws a new light onto this question: what if it's the Landers themselves who desire war? Not with the Adventurers, of course, but with each other instead. What right, then, do the Adventurers have to dissuade them from fighting each other?

The answer, to Nyanta at least, is: none.

I would again be concerned about the relationship between the Adventurers and their perception of Landers as actual people in a sense.

In many, if not all MMOs, there exist various factions which are hostile to both each other and the player-characters; which seems to be strangely lacking in Elder Tales; despite the prevalence of these factions as nexuses of storyline tensions and the tendency for players to slaughter them on a scale equal to that of monsters.

This is especially jarring given that Elder Tales is given the presence of PKing and PvP; there is PvP on other servers, and is enabled to a limited extent on the Japanese servers. Therefore, it would be reasonable to presume that at some point there would involve slaughtering of NPC soldiers and mobs.

I can see another point of validity to the Odyssey Knights' willingness to use the town as cover; in most MMOs, I do cannot think of one, but I'm sure there is an exception somewhere, NPCs are replaceable. You kill one, another will re-spawn in its place; you wiped out an entire camp of rebelling peasants and poachers, they will re-spawn in a few minutes. In fact, most MMOs don't have any other option, but to slaughter them en-mass, which can lead to rather amusing thoughts.

If you think of this as a game, who cares if Landers get killed while your using a town as cover, they'll probably "re-spawn" after anyways, and if they don't, well they're just another set of expendable NPCs. I wish Mamare could help clarify the extent to which hostile factions are present, and the reaction of Adventurers to slaughtering formerly face-less mooks one-on-one, or using others as fodder or expendable "meat", as he expands on the relationship between the Adventurers and Landers as presented in the recent chapters.

Additionally, using the terrain as cover is a valid military tactic; people do it all the time in the real world, with or without civilians present. Hell, there are groups that count on civilians being present, when they take cover in urban settings; if anything the presence of low-level and vulnerable civilians will distract the shades and wyverns.

[Marcus H.]

If you think of this as a game, who cares if Landers get killed while your using a town as cover, they'll probably "re-spawn" after anyways, and if they don't, well they're just another set of expendable NPCs.

Landers no longer work that way. The moment someone kills a Lander, that Lander's dead for good. That makes it a nightmare for anyone who needs a quest only to discover that the farmer who was asking for pumpkins on the next town just got chomped by a group of wild bears.

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Landers no longer work that way. The moment someone kills a Lander, that Lander's dead for good. That makes it a nightmare for anyone who needs a quest only to discover that the farmer who was asking for pumpkins on the next town just got chomped by a group of wild bears.

Just because we know that doesn't mean that everyone accepts it. As you can see, some of those Adventurers simply don't care about or accept that fact.

[tsunade666]

^Which is probably why Shiroe emphasis that the Landers are also living people and they are the alien to the world.

[Marcus H.]

Yep, pretty much. Until someone can prove that Landers can spawn, it's better for everyone to just assume that they don't to avoid abuse.

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Yep, pretty much. Until someone can prove that Landers can spawn, it's better for everyone to just assume that they don't to avoid abuse.

This presumes rationality and only in context of the presence of a individual like Shiroe, we've only seen Shiroe act this way, and so far he's only done so, in relation to the nobles, and the area that falls under the Council's jurisdiction; additionally, PvP has never been particularly strong on the Japanese server apparently; with the relative strength imbalance between the Landers and Adventurers, there has never been any real conflict between Landers and Adventurers, even up in north.

Now for the rest of the world, you cannot say for certain that many would think that way, think about the American servers, the European server, as well as that server which has India and Pakistan attached together. I've killed thousands of NPCs, and I would probably keep on doing, so if I think something is a game, as the Odysseus Knights obviously do, and many others as well.

It's also shown that the deeds of Adventurers are recorded while Elder Tales was still a game, as shown by Re-gun's interactions with Shiroe; what would the Landers thinking of Adventurers that were avid town raiders and PvPers while ET was still a game? You'll have Adventurers responsible for the deaths of thousands of Landers, with the accompanying memories and implications from their former victims. Some may even continue seeing this as a game, killing more and more as a defensive response to this possibility. If I knew that I had been slaughtering sentient beings by the thousands, I would probably lose it, game or no. What the Adventurers have done before exists in the record of the world, including the consequences, from what has been seen.

[FRS]

Thanks for the summary aohige.

I wonder what is PH's angle here.

[Marcus H.]

It's also shown that the deeds of Adventurers are recorded while Elder Tales was still a game, as shown by Re-gun's interactions with Shiroe; what would the Landers thinking of Adventurers that were avid town raiders and PvPers while ET was still a game?

"What the heck is that guy doing running against that wall?"

[Gatmarant]

Hey Guys if i remember correctly the next chapter will be the last one for Volume 8, If That is the case how long do we have to wait until the printed version will be out?

[yulinard]

August? I think the author can throw 20 ep worth of material before fall, and add Kanami story for extra 5.

[RDNexus]

Is Kanami's story already complete?

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by xrick

Is Kanami's story already complete?

Went on hiatus after chapter 9, so technically no.

I personally think that Mamare might not finish the side story, instead tying the cast into the main series from where it left off. That, or have one or two chapters to tie up the side story and then (almost literally) ship them over to the main storyline.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by aohige

Chapter 72

first half

This is getting way too long, half way through... I'm going to cut and summarize the rest without getting into too much detail


EDIT: here's the second half

Spoiler for Thoughts:

About time Mamare started to address the issue of adventurers not content to happily settle down in their new world. It's been a big hole in the story. Somewhat disappointing he seems to have only given it to antagonists and used it as an after the fact justification for them being a-holes. Whether or not it's his intention it pretty much automatically stigmatizes it as the wrong view to hold.

[mastermind3342]

Originally Posted by Krono

Spoiler for Thoughts:

About time Mamare started to address the issue of adventurers not content to happily settle down in their new world. It's been a big hole in the story. Somewhat disappointing he seems to have only given it to antagonists and used it as an after the fact justification for them being a-holes. Whether or not it's his intention it pretty much automatically stigmatizes it as the wrong view to hold.

i think shiroe and co are not really try to settle down but try to figure out how to go home without Recklessly or Accidentally make thing more difficult...in the future by doing stupid and extreme thing like the knight of something, and in optimist and positive way... and still enjoying life along the way.... rather being depressed all the time.

the knight of something become antagonist is because their way of see the catastrope and their ideal way to go back is well..... different(and extreme) than protagonist and both of them are not agree with each other method that each one of them think the best way achieve it.

like you and me maybe....

[tsunade666]

you know i can understand the knights way of doing stuff. Like what nyanta did. I can't fault them. The guy said he has a fiance in real life and is getting married but he got taken away against his will. The same can be said for rondark.

you might it call extreme but I think its rather humane way of doing things though a bit harsh because they really didn't care about landers but really. can you blame them?

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

can you blame them?

Yes.
Yes i can.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Yes.
Yes i can.

why?

if your stuck in an alien world. away from your love ones.

against your will.

why?

[Gatmarant]

You cannot blame them for that

What i do blame them for is the actions that they are using are wrong.

In a way there like frightened children and a good many of them are ,

Tossed into an unknown situation and they do what's best to cope with it but it does not necessarily mean they are right. it is what they think is the best way to cope with it.

what they need is guidance and to show them a better way, if they acknowledge there is a better way but they still choose not to do that option. That is when u can actually consider there actions as morally wrong and evil.

This is my opinion.

[Gimmesum]

Originally Posted by Gatmarant

what they need is guidance and to show them a better way, if they acknowledge there is a better way but they still choose not to do that option. That is when u can actually consider there actions as morally wrong and evil.

Precisely, that one of the reason why Shiroe made the RTC, to prevent the adventurers becoming like the those knights

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

why?

if your stuck in an alien world. away from your love ones.

against your will.

why?

Nobody (as far as we know) removed their free will.
They remain responsible for their actions.
So yes, i can blame them for any actions they take.