AnimeSuki Forums

~~Arbitres~~ · 2010-03-04, 12:00

Guren to that.

:3 can I join?

While this is indeed Kallen's thread (Don't worry, i'm glad too) we can talk about things or people related to her to a certain extent, without roaming too far offtopic. An example is Naoto, but that would be a short discussion because - close to no information was given about him besides his appearance.

Kallen is epic in the extreme sense, if I had to put it in four words... "Endearing, beautiful, fiesty, badass" But not necessary in that order.

In most of her character developement, she gives off the "Beat me if you can." confidence, but not to the point of being overconfident or arrogant about it.

Opinion & Discussion?...

Yasanagi · 2010-03-04, 12:25

She's essentially a fem!Domon but with the ability to communicate through other means rather than solely through her fists.

Speaking of G-Gundam parallels, Bandai should have put in a CG for Rai and Kallen doing a Double God Finger with the pre-production Gekka and the Guren in the Black Knights route of Lost Colors. For shame!!

In theory, I figure they can also do a Love Love Tenkyoken (if relationship values are high) although I can't see a situation where such a move would be desperately needed to save the day.

And I'm rambling on now...

~~Arbitres~~ · 2010-03-04, 12:49

So far, Yasanagi, I like your ramblings, along with the idea of Pre-production Gekka and Guren 'Double Godfinger' xD.. more like 'The two godhands. In that effect, it's short of ironic that Guren is outfitted with an optional vibration knife, and Gekka is outfitted with a chain sword.

They should've also had more CG for the JLF route for Kallen, but unfortunately, no. Just the Kallen vs Nagisa CGI, and the CGI of Kallen and Rai if you chose to fend Kallen. (Around this time, I was hating Naggy-isha's guts even more.)

While she seemed universally the same as in the anime in Lost Colors, she seemed somewhat more... meek. OOC to a margin.

@Yasanagi: PM for Convo on LC? xD!

Cephei Mordred · 2010-03-04, 17:03

I have a hard time seeing her appeal.

Maybe it's because I felt that she couldn't decide whether she was tough or vulnerable.

bladeofdarkness · 2010-03-04, 17:54

tough on the outside, vulnerable on the inside
not hard to figure out

Lost Cause · 2010-03-04, 21:28

For me, Kallen was the tragic heroine. She always kept her guard up as she was not ready to let anyone in that they might die like her brother did, leaving her alone. By the time she realized she did indeed love Lelouch it was to late.

Revolutionist · 2010-03-04, 22:42

Did she love Lelouch or did she love Zero? Because it seemed like she was just infatuated with the Zero persona. She basically knew nothing about Lelouch even after she learned he was Zero. She didn't know his motivations, or even real goals. How can you love someone when you know absolutely nothing about them? That kiss in ep 22 was out of character.

~~Arbitres~~ · 2010-03-04, 23:18

How pessimistic.

She fell in love with the Zero persona first and foremost. But she eventually spreaded that infatuation to the one behind the mask, eventually loving the person behind it instead of the mask.

Zero meant hope, she felt drawn by that. Lelouch was a britannian student who thought "Lower your head and everything will be okay". That is why she felt betrayed during S1 ep. 25.

Zero was hope, and Lelouch destroyed that false imagery. He dispelled it, but eventually she confronted him at Babel Tower, gaining something akin to an answer.

She probably looked back and realized it wasn't Zero, but Lelouch that gave the japanese hope.

She followed both Zero and Lelouch, two beings of the same.

She possibly fell inlove with Lelouch after confirming he was truly Zero.

May I also add she was willing to try and understand him, but never got the chance to? Afterall, she is wanted for terrorism after being successfully identified as a resistance fighter.

Give me your verdict, Revolutionist. Most likely something against, no?

morbosfist · 2010-03-04, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Did she love Lelouch or did she love Zero? Because it seemed like she was just infatuated with the Zero persona. She basically knew nothing about Lelouch even after she learned he was Zero. She didn't know his motivations, or even real goals. How can you love someone when you know absolutely nothing about them? That kiss in ep 22 was out of character.

She knew his motivations and goals better than anyone else aside from C.C. and Suzaku. C.C. laid it out over that missing year, not that it wasn't obvious anyway. First she fell in love with Zero, then the man behind the mask.

Paladinoras · 2010-03-05, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Guren to that.

:3 can I join?

While this is indeed Kallen's thread (Don't worry, i'm glad too) we can talk about things or people related to her to a certain extent, without roaming too far offtopic. An example is Naoto, but that would be a short discussion because - close to no information was given about him besides his appearance.

Kallen is epic in the extreme sense, if I had to put it in four words... "Endearing, beautiful, fiesty, badass" But not necessary in that order.

In most of her character developement, she gives off the "Beat me if you can." confidence, but not to the point of being overconfident or arrogant about it.

Opinion & Discussion?...

In battle, I get more of a "Don't make me laugh" vibe, cause she is just that IMBA. XD

Betteroffer · 2010-03-05, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Did she love Lelouch or did she love Zero? Because it seemed like she was just infatuated with the Zero persona. She basically knew nothing about Lelouch even after she learned he was Zero. She didn't know his motivations, or even real goals. How can you love someone when you know absolutely nothing about them? That kiss in ep 22 was out of character.

As morbosfist said, C.C. likely had to explain quite a bit over the timeskip to get Kallen back on board after how Lelouch acted on Kamine. Beyond that there was the time she spent in prison talking to Nunally, as she wonders to herself who the real Lelouch is as Nunally is telling her about how Lelouch would pretend to be Santa at Christmas for her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morbosfist

She knew his motivations and goals better than anyone else aside from C.C. and Suzaku. C.C. laid it out over that missing year, not that it wasn't obvious anyway. First she fell in love with Zero, then the man behind the mask.

I think it was more that she had a platonic admiration for Zero and came to love Lelouch amidst her efforts to understand him.

Lolipopo · 2010-03-05, 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Did she love Lelouch or did she love Zero? Because it seemed like she was just infatuated with the Zero persona. She basically knew nothing about Lelouch even after she learned he was Zero. She didn't know his motivations, or even real goals. How can you love someone when you know absolutely nothing about them? That kiss in ep 22 was out of character.

She wasn't in love with Zero.4He was her hope, she was in admiration for him and she wanted to be useful to him, it was more of a tiny crush on him, and still, I don't know if it was really romantic.
It's just like when a girl respects highly her teacher or her sempai whatever it is (without the shoujo connotation of course.)

And she knew about Lelouch. She knew enough about him to br worried about him when she learnt about his sister and to be able to find him when he was depressed and alone.
It's not like if she was some kind of exterior girl, she ended up being one of the few who knew about his zero persona, his motives, before knowing (thanks to Nunally, who basically helped her to learn a lot about the real Lelouch) the real Lelouch.

Basically she learnt about him as her leader, and she learnt about him as Lelouch Lamperouge. To fall in love with him was simply a detail here. I don't get how it is possible to imply she didn't know him when most of her devellopment is about Lelouch and who is the man behind the mask, thus giving birth to their whole relationship.

Now if this "she didn't knew him since she didn't get what he was trying to do" then may I remind that Nunally didn't know as well ? And it's not like Nunnally didn't know who was her brother.

Revolutionist · 2010-03-05, 09:40

She never really understood him.

Even after those sessions with Nunnaly she was still questioning who the guy really was. Is he the gentle caring brother or the ruthless terrorists leader? That's a question she asked herself, but obviously not exactly the way put it...

It's sad that as you say most of her development revolved around Lelouch because honestly, it came up short. IMO it would've been better if her development focused around her father and brother.

morbosfist · 2010-03-05, 10:37

She understood him in the end, which is the point. It's unreasonable to expect her to get him completely from the onset, especially when they can barely spend five seconds together without something interrupting.

Bonzo · 2010-03-05, 11:42

Well, I changed a appendix script, no more Kallen's meeting with Nonette, but something full of violence and cruelty.

Nobodyman9 approved the script.

Lolipopo · 2010-03-05, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

She never really understood him.

Even after those sessions with Nunnaly she was still questioning who the guy really was. Is he the gentle caring brother or the ruthless terrorists leader? That's a question she asked herself, but obviously not exactly the way put it...

It's sad that as you say most of her development revolved around Lelouch because honestly, it came up short. IMO it would've been better if her development focused around her father and brother.

She understood him at the end. She did get Zero was Suzaku and Lelouch was the Prince from Machiavel, without any magical hands or confisence.
In the end, she understood him, and she saw through his lies, that, was the point of her devellopment, to understand the man behind the mask. She fullfilled that.
Her Bg would have been awesome but since they thought her relationship with Lelouch was more important than that, I'm not going to complain, especially when I saw what they came up with for some characters when it comes to BG (C.C. being a secondary character for almost the whole season, with come shining moment to explain us she was a slave girl. Yay.)

It's fine this way, for Kallen, at least.

Sol Falling · 2010-03-05, 14:45

This is slightly off-topic but I want to mention that I don't get why everybody assumes that Nunally has magical hand-vision? The thing is, what the audience sees =/= what Nunally sees, necessarily. The flashes from that episode might just have indicated the emotions Nunally was recieving from Lelouch or something, instead of psychic visions. The way the show portrayed psychic visions anyway (i.e. Lelouch getting his geass, C.C. mindraping Suzaku) was a bit more stylized.

~~Arbitres~~ · 2010-03-05, 14:59

The point of the matter is, she finally understood what he was doing. I could only imagine the betrayal she felt when she was captured, hauled off to be executed. She may have been fighting back the tears until the end if Zero Requiem. Though that is my opinion on the matter.

Nunnally has magical hand-vision? Hardly. One idea is Lelouch was immortal, passing on his code to Suzero. His code was stolen from his father, in that train of thought. So he didn't trade his geass, simply stole the code by accident as Charles was razed from existence.

But that is offtopic, let's get back onto Kallen.

Lolipopo · 2010-03-05, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

This is slightly off-topic but I want to mention that I don't get why everybody assumes that Nunally has magical hand-vision? The thing is, what the audience sees =/= what Nunally sees, necessarily. The flashes from that episode might just have indicated the emotions Nunally was recieving from Lelouch or something, instead of psychic visions. The way the show portrayed psychic visions anyway (i.e. Lelouch getting his geass, C.C. mindraping Suzaku) was a bit more stylized.

Because she suddenly opened her eyes and was shocked when we saw the visions I guess. And right when they finished, she knew the truth.

This and we saw during the season, that she could read into people's heart while holding their hands (it's something like those people who can read the future while reading in your hands I guess :P).

And In the end, I think it was etablished in some stuff.

Sol Falling · 2010-03-05, 15:24

Yeah, Nunally being able to 'see into people's hearts' by touching their hands was in S1 even, but there was nothing that suggested it was supernatural. The Charles' code stuff was always just baseless speculation, and I think it is perfectly reasonable that Nunally was just doing what she normally does (sensing the gentleness/emotional state of a person or something). I don't see why the fact that the show showed some flashbacks at that time has to indicate that it suddenly became magical in a way that was never explained or hinted at.

2010-03-04, 17:54	Link #22765
bladeofdarkness Um-Shmum Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts Age: 39	tough on the outside, vulnerable on the inside not hard to figure out __________________

2010-03-04, 22:42	Link #22767
Revolutionist Puppet Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Behind You	Did she love Lelouch or did she love Zero? Because it seemed like she was just infatuated with the Zero persona. She basically knew nothing about Lelouch even after she learned he was Zero. She didn't know his motivations, or even real goals. How can you love someone when you know absolutely nothing about them? That kiss in ep 22 was out of character. __________________ I cannot give you back your homes, or restore your dead to life, but perhaps I can give you justice, in the name of our King. ~ Ned Stark

2010-03-05, 09:40	Link #22773
Revolutionist Puppet Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Behind You	She never really understood him. Even after those sessions with Nunnaly she was still questioning who the guy really was. Is he the gentle caring brother or the ruthless terrorists leader? That's a question she asked herself, but obviously not exactly the way put it... It's sad that as you say most of her development revolved around Lelouch because honestly, it came up short. IMO it would've been better if her development focused around her father and brother. __________________ I cannot give you back your homes, or restore your dead to life, but perhaps I can give you justice, in the name of our King. ~ Ned Stark

2010-03-05, 10:37	Link #22774
morbosfist Spinning Lotus Join Date: Jul 2008	She understood him in the end, which is the point. It's unreasonable to expect her to get him completely from the onset, especially when they can barely spend five seconds together without something interrupting. __________________

2010-03-04, 12:00	Link #22761
~~Arbitres~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Jan 2010	Guren to that. :3 can I join? While this is indeed Kallen's thread (Don't worry, i'm glad too) we can talk about things or people related to her to a certain extent, without roaming too far offtopic. An example is Naoto, but that would be a short discussion because - close to no information was given about him besides his appearance. Kallen is epic in the extreme sense, if I had to put it in four words... "Endearing, beautiful, fiesty, badass" But not necessary in that order. In most of her character developement, she gives off the "Beat me if you can." confidence, but not to the point of being overconfident or arrogant about it. Opinion & Discussion?...

2010-03-04, 12:25	Link #22762
Yasanagi A Drifter... Author Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Brampton	She's essentially a fem!Domon but with the ability to communicate through other means rather than solely through her fists. Speaking of G-Gundam parallels, Bandai should have put in a CG for Rai and Kallen doing a Double God Finger with the pre-production Gekka and the Guren in the Black Knights route of Lost Colors. For shame!! In theory, I figure they can also do a Love Love Tenkyoken (if relationship values are high) although I can't see a situation where such a move would be desperately needed to save the day. And I'm rambling on now...

2010-03-04, 12:49	Link #22763
~~Arbitres~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Jan 2010	So far, Yasanagi, I like your ramblings, along with the idea of Pre-production Gekka and Guren 'Double Godfinger' xD.. more like 'The two godhands. In that effect, it's short of ironic that Guren is outfitted with an optional vibration knife, and Gekka is outfitted with a chain sword. They should've also had more CG for the JLF route for Kallen, but unfortunately, no. Just the Kallen vs Nagisa CGI, and the CGI of Kallen and Rai if you chose to fend Kallen. (Around this time, I was hating Naggy-isha's guts even more.) While she seemed universally the same as in the anime in Lost Colors, she seemed somewhat more... meek. OOC to a margin. @Yasanagi: PM for Convo on LC? xD!

2010-03-04, 17:03	Link #22764
Cephei Mordred Lord Knight of SYTOM Join Date: Feb 2010	I have a hard time seeing her appeal. Maybe it's because I felt that she couldn't decide whether she was tough or vulnerable.

2010-03-04, 21:28	Link #22766
Lost Cause Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Age: 46	For me, Kallen was the tragic heroine. She always kept her guard up as she was not ready to let anyone in that they might die like her brother did, leaving her alone. By the time she realized she did indeed love Lelouch it was to late.

2010-03-04, 23:18	Link #22768
~~Arbitres~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Jan 2010	How pessimistic. She fell in love with the Zero persona first and foremost. But she eventually spreaded that infatuation to the one behind the mask, eventually loving the person behind it instead of the mask. Zero meant hope, she felt drawn by that. Lelouch was a britannian student who thought "Lower your head and everything will be okay". That is why she felt betrayed during S1 ep. 25. Zero was hope, and Lelouch destroyed that false imagery. He dispelled it, but eventually she confronted him at Babel Tower, gaining something akin to an answer. She probably looked back and realized it wasn't Zero, but Lelouch that gave the japanese hope. She followed both Zero and Lelouch, two beings of the same. She possibly fell inlove with Lelouch after confirming he was truly Zero. May I also add she was willing to try and understand him, but never got the chance to? Afterall, she is wanted for terrorism after being successfully identified as a resistance fighter. Give me your verdict, Revolutionist. Most likely something against, no?

2010-03-05, 11:42	Link #22775
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	Well, I changed a appendix script, no more Kallen's meeting with Nonette, but something full of violence and cruelty. Nobodyman9 approved the script.

2010-03-05, 14:45	Link #22777
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	This is slightly off-topic but I want to mention that I don't get why everybody assumes that Nunally has magical hand-vision? The thing is, what the audience sees =/= what Nunally sees, necessarily. The flashes from that episode might just have indicated the emotions Nunally was recieving from Lelouch or something, instead of psychic visions. The way the show portrayed psychic visions anyway (i.e. Lelouch getting his geass, C.C. mindraping Suzaku) was a bit more stylized.

2010-03-05, 14:59	Link #22778
~~Arbitres~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Jan 2010	The point of the matter is, she finally understood what he was doing. I could only imagine the betrayal she felt when she was captured, hauled off to be executed. She may have been fighting back the tears until the end if Zero Requiem. Though that is my opinion on the matter. Nunnally has magical hand-vision? Hardly. One idea is Lelouch was immortal, passing on his code to Suzero. His code was stolen from his father, in that train of thought. So he didn't trade his geass, simply stole the code by accident as Charles was razed from existence. But that is offtopic, let's get back onto Kallen.

2010-03-05, 15:24	Link #22780
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	Yeah, Nunally being able to 'see into people's hearts' by touching their hands was in S1 even, but there was nothing that suggested it was supernatural. The Charles' code stuff was always just baseless speculation, and I think it is perfectly reasonable that Nunally was just doing what she normally does (sensing the gentleness/emotional state of a person or something). I don't see why the fact that the show showed some flashbacks at that time has to indicate that it suddenly became magical in a way that was never explained or hinted at.