Toradora! - Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[Kagami~n]

I guess it's a good thing that I missed the earlier post...?

Is Taiga considered a loli by definition? Is a loli a character who -looks- like a kid? I thought it was a character who -is- a kid.

[Vexx]

Is Taiga considered a loli by definition? Is a loli a character who -looks- like a kid? I thought it was a character who -is- a kid.

That's a never-ending argument with some (including me ). Just to hopefully cut the usual noises short:

I view "loli" as a descriptive term, not an age bracket. Adult women can be "loli", people can dress "loli" and so on.
A fair number of folks view it as an age bracket. Even viewed as an age bracket there are disputes because the term derives from "lolita" which pegs the age bracket between pubescence and "legal" (varies by locale). A series like Moe-tan satirizes the "high school girl who looks like a 4th grader". Some fans include actual pre-pubescence ages (see the series Kodomo no Jikaan for reference).

As for myself, I call Taiga elfin or petite. I personally wouldn't necessarily call her loli unless she dressed the part. However, many fans call her archetype "loli-tsundere". She might be also what is referred to as "petanko" (small/flat breasted) BUT from what I've seen, she seems to have a figure appropriate for her size. The ratio between her and Ryuuji almost matches the ratio between my wife and I. Japanese women can be really small in comparison to European stock and still have a figure.

As a reference, my wife (japanese heritage) is 4'10" (147cm) and I'm 6'0" (183cm). Her weight is 95lbs (43kg) and that value has held true since she was in the 9th grade. Irritatingly but in the interest of full disclosure, my weight is about 210lb but I'm trying to drill down to 190lb (it was 225 last year).

I'm trying to find Taiga's and Ryuuji's height, no luck so far -- I doubt Ryuuji is much more than 5'8" (172cm) which would make Taiga about 4'7"(138cm) using ratios.

UPDATE: the Toradora! english wiki puts Taiga's height at 143.6 cm (4' 8.5") -- (the height of a couple of my wife's cousins). That means Ryuuji is probably 5'10" as well as Kitamura ... they probably got to know each other from being in the back of the lines together all the time.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Vexx

That's a never-ending argument with some (including me ). Just to hopefully cut the usual noises short:

I view "loli" as a descriptive term, not an age bracket. Adult women can be "loli", people can dress "loli" and so on.
A fair number of folks view it as an age bracket. Even viewed as an age bracket there are disputes because the term derives from "lolita" which pegs the age bracket between pubescence and "legal" (varies by locale). A series like Moe-tan satirizes the "high school girl who looks like a 4th grader". Some fans include actual pre-pubescence ages (see the series Kodomo no Jikaan for reference).

As for myself, I call Taiga elfin or petite. I personally wouldn't necessarily call her loli unless she dressed the part. However, many fans call her archetype "loli-tsundere". She might be also what is referred to as "petanko" (small/flat breasted) BUT from what I've seen, she seems to have a figure appropriate for her size. The ratio between her and Ryuuji almost matches the ratio between my wife and I. Japanese women can be really small in comparison to European stock and still have a figure.

As a reference, my wife (japanese heritage) is 4'10" (147cm) and I'm 6'0" (183cm). Her weight is 95lbs (43kg) and that value has held true since she was in the 9th grade. Irritatingly but in the interest of full disclosure, my weight is about 210lb but I'm trying to drill down to 190lb (it was 225 last year).

I'm trying to find Taiga's and Ryuuji's height, no luck so far -- I doubt Ryuuji is much more than 5'8" (172cm) which would make Taiga about 4'7"(138cm) using ratios.

UPDATE: the Toradora! english wiki puts Taiga's height at 143.6 cm (4' 8.5") -- (the height of a couple of my wife's cousins). That means Ryuuji is probably 5'10" as well as Kitamura ... they probably got to know each other from being in the back of the lines together all the time.

I would say Taiga is more of a tsun-loli for the sake of her looks, like Nagi Sanzenin from Hayate. Calling her petite is a little unnatural for me because she looks like a doll, behaves like a doll (or at least in the way Shinku does in Rozen Maiden) and usually dresses much closer to the loli way. IMO dolls can never be petite.

You might want to call her a tsun-dollfie, but that is another story after all.

P.S I can't believe I invented all these terms for that girl. Alfred Nobel owes me a literature prize for this.

[Vexx]

.... from Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: 1pe·tite
Pronunciation:\pə-ˈtēt\
Function:adjective
Etymology:French, feminine of petit
Date:1784
: having a small trim figure —usually used of a woman

How that's not "doll-like" is a mystery to me. its the very definition of many dolls.

Just in case "elfin" is not clear to some --

Main Entry:elf·in
Pronunciation:\ˈel-fən\
Function:adjective
Etymology:irregular from elf
Date:1590
1 a: of, relating to, or produced by an elf
b: resembling an elf especially in its tiny size <elfin portions>
2: having an otherworldly or magical quality or charm

I can't help that the women's department in stores are totally f*cking clueless as to what "petite" means.

[Silverwyrm]

Taiga never struck me as Loli to be honest, I noticed she's "small" or as someone said "petite" but Loli never passed my mind, size aside she doesn't look the part imo

[tzia_n]

finally managed to watch episode three, it was a weird episode, but funny enough damn that Kushieda is one weird girl

[Kagami~n]

I think that "Loli" is a slightly over/misused term, and since it brings some slightly negative connotation with it I generally prefer not to use it.

"Petite" is much better. Tiny girl, nice and simple. I guess my stupid affinity for short girl characters will carry on into this series now...

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kagami~n

I think that "Loli" is a slightly over/misused term, and since it brings some slightly negative connotation with it I generally prefer not to use it.

"Petite" is much better. Tiny girl, nice and simple. I guess my stupid affinity for short girl characters will carry on into this series now...

Well... join the "has affinity for short, petite girls club".
But then I also classify your avatar Kagami and her sister as "short and petite"

[Kagami~n]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Well... join the "has affinity for short, petite girls club".
But then I also classify your avatar Kagami and her sister as "short and petite"

Would that be the "stupid affinity for short, petite girls club"? It probably stems from my own insecurities about my height. I'm the oldest (and shortest) of four siblings. I am taller than my fiance, and that fact is one thing that attracted me to her. >.>

Kagami is barely shorter than I am. .__. But Taiga is short even by my standards.

[typhonsentra]

Doesn't everyone like petite?

[Vexx]

No, I know quite a few people that "like more meat on their wimmen", taller, etc.
I suppose its a good thing that different people have different preferences.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Petite people tend to be more feisty. Even history did that, for example Napoleon and Robert E Lee. These examples are what we can call petite.

[Urei]

It's natural for a smaller person to feel more insecure and this is something that is not necessarily acknowledged in their psyche. Still, whatever she may be - loli, petite, doll-like, it doesn't really matter. She holds a character of her own with that look and it's all good.

[Samatarou]

I liked this episode, I've been wanting to see more focus on Minori as I'm curious about her. Right at the start one of the things that struck me was that usually girls with huge eyes like that are made to look 100% cute, but somehow Minori didn't, there was something slightly odd in those saucer-like eyes, a slightly manic look. Although her secrets are unfolding only slowly, we saw in this episode that there is indeed something going on behind that genki mask (as indeed is often the case with such people I think.)

In the Taiga v Minori stakes, my position is: would you rather have a girl who stabs you in the eyes with her fingers, or one who gives you extra large helpings of icecream? I know which I prefer! I'm not sure about this Minori=airhead thing I keep hearing either. In the anime at least I don't see any sign she's an airhead. Just because she's hyper and does lots of stuff for no obvious reason doesn't make her an airhead. Being unable to ride a bike at that age is more akin to airheadedness if you ask me!

Anyway I hope there are more episodes like this one, since Minori remains my favourite character. Also I liked that Taiga was less violent in this ep. and it was interesting to see some more tidbits held out which showed there is in fact a backstory between her and Kitamura, which makes the romance thing less stereotyped.

[OkamiNoKaze]

I rather like Minori. I like her hyperness, especially the way she walks in the ending. As for Tiaga she has some great facial expressions, even if they're forced on her, like that "smile". I liked the "Found you" part as well.

[Archon_Wing]

Man this Kitamura guy sure has the ability to appear at the worst time possible.

Also I like Minorin the best thus far. Though I wonder what's she on.

[OkamiNoKaze]

To me it's like they took Haruhi, and split her in too, and ended up with Tiaga and Minori

[Mihara Yuki]

It was nice to have Ryuuji,Taiga and Minorin developed in this episode.Finally,I can see another Ryuuji and Taiga expression.
I was freaked out with Minorin eyes though,whenever she made eye contact.

[keroro gunsou]

Originally Posted by Mihara Yuki

It was nice to have Ryuuji,Taiga and Minorin developed in this episode.Finally,I can see another Ryuuji and Taiga expression.
I was freaked out with Minorin eyes though,whenever she made eye contact.

Please watch more!!!