Personal Emotions Thread

[arias]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Rejecting the pains? I don't think I agree - she rejected going back to the old life, in the crampy apartment, with a noncommital Takayuki. Which I can definitely understand.

She was breaking down in tears giving in when Takayuki finally promised - in a believable way - that this is not his intention, and that he wants to move on and build something new, something serious.

I'm not sure about her rejecting going back to the crampy apartment.. There's really nothing to suggest it's the apartment she wants to avoid; I rather think that by moving out the two lovers accomplish what they have (always) planned to do; which is to move out and live together somewhere bigger. But I do agree with your bigger point that she's rejecting going back to the "old life" with a noncommital Takayuki..

But I'm afraid both of us are missing our points just by a SLIGHT bit; what I'm saying is that whereas Haruka is willing to accept the difficulties and tribulations encountered (ie. she doesn't want to turn time back; she accepts the pains as part of the process to a greater fruit), Mitsuki is more denying of that pain.. So they start over again, as if in denial that those painful things ever happened (which is somewhat reflected in how their reconciliation is not truly a "review" of the past but a purpose towards the future).

I'm aware it's a very small difference, but I'm not interested in accusing Mitsuki of being weak or whatsoever; I'm really interested in drawing the parallel references between Mitsuki and Haruka; and whether these differences were intentional so as to depict them as polar opposites.

[DarkCntry]

I believe the underlying reason Mitsuki is pretty set on moving out of the apartment is somewhat as you say arias, however I feel it's geared more towards her wanting to push Takayuki into understanding and moving on to a life on their own together as one, not to be stuck in Takayuki's past. It's a symbol of their being as one and not living in Takayuki's small apartment.

I feel that Haruka's ability to move on is somewhat transcended onto Mitsuki, however for Mitsuki it's a much more subtle and non-descript one. Haruka's now much stronger-willed than she originally was before the accident, taking on heavier goals and following through, Mitsuki went the opposite way...she calmed down, allowed someone else to be involved in her life and didn't try to do things all on her own.

Overall, the more and more you watch the characters you find that none of them are really different than the other. You, however, do find that each character will start acting differently, but only taking on the traits of another. Like I said, Haruka and Mitsuki switched places at the end in terms of how the characters progressed.

I wouldn't so much to say that Mitsuki is denying anything, but more accepting the fact that she is not alone anymore and that she cannot be expected to do everything. And I feel that Haruka has found out that relying on someone else isn't always the best way to deal with life and she learns that sometimes it takes being strong and self-confident is better.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by arias

I'm not sure about her rejecting going back to the crampy apartment.. There's really nothing to suggest it's the apartment she wants to avoid; I rather think that by moving out the two lovers accomplish what they have (always) planned to do; which is to move out and live together somewhere bigger. But I do agree with your bigger point that she's rejecting going back to the "old life" with a noncommital Takayuki..

The apartment is a symbol of the Takayuki of old. Remember the scene where she's leaving the apartment to remark "It's still the same"? This is the life she does not want anymore, I think it's very obvious. But we're in agreement here anyway.

But I'm afraid both of us are missing our points just by a SLIGHT bit; what I'm saying is that whereas Haruka is willing to accept the difficulties and tribulations encountered (ie. she doesn't want to turn time back; she accepts the pains as part of the process to a greater fruit), Mitsuki is more denying of that pain..

Who's denying what here? I can't follow your train of thought, sorry.

Haruka didn't have any difficulties and tribulations, she was in a coma first and didn't know what was going on afterwards. Only once she found out about the truth, she struggled hard with the consequences, only to find out very quickly that her Takayuki of old was no more. THAT is the only thing she could "accept", that the last years have changed him so much that she can't fully connect with him anymore - as much as she would wish that she could. So she accepted this and set him free.

So they start over again, as if in denial that those painful things ever happened (which is somewhat reflected in how their reconciliation is not truly a "review" of the past but a purpose towards the future).

Absolutely not. Look at the explanation Takayuki gave to Haruka for choosing Mitsuki. She had been there for him while he was falling apart, and now he makes it HIS task to soothe HER wounds for the rest of his life. Takayuki is fully aware of these painful things and prepared to heal Mitsuki over them.

Mitsuki doesn't deny the painful things which happened either. She has gone through hell and does not want back the past - feeling to be a replacement for Haruka taken for granted (see her reaction in the final talk). Only when Takayuki explained to her that this is not what he truly desires, and that instead he wants to _really_ be with her (not to "start over" the old, but to "start" for real this time, like when Takayuki was shopping for a bigger apartment together in ep4), she gives in.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not quite seeing the point you're trying to make...

[arias]

Just a quick reply.. Yes the apartment shows how Takayuki is stuck in the past, but Mitsuki isn't denying going back to the old apartment.. she's denying going back to the old life (the old Takayuki). I guess you could bite the bullet and say that essentially that includes the apartment, but I really think that their moving into the new apartment is rather a sign of moving into the future than rejecting the past. Very very thin line of difference.

Probably agree with your Haruka comment.

And I'm not talking about why Takayuki is going back to Mitsuki (ie. what you said as in "She had been there for him while he was falling apart, and now he makes it HIS task to soothe HER wounds for the rest of his life. Takayuki is fully aware of these painful things and prepared to heal Mitsuki over them."

Takayuki IS aware of all of the painful things.

What I'm saying is that.. ESSENTIALLY, I'm drawing parallel references between Mitsuki (Final episode) and Haruka (FIRST episode, NOT 13th episode!!).

Haruka was together with Takayuki, hurt by him, broke up (kinda), and Takayuki asked her to come back to him (kinda). He said that if he had a chance to change things.. he would want to go back to the start and... Haruka interrupted by saying no, she doesn't think it's right to deny whatever hurts that have happened, and that she's willing to accept all those AS trials and tribulations to the present gift.

I'm wondering whether the producers deliberately drew this as a parallel to Mitsuki in the final episode, where it's an essentially elongated version of the above.

Mitsuki was with Haruka, hurt by him, broke up (kinda) and Takayuki asked her to come back to him (yeah). Mitsuki doesn't want to go back to the old life, she wants to deny those pains (in my opinion) ever happened.. And so Takayuki tells her "let's start again..".

So while Haruka and Takayuki's story arc in the first episode seems to be an embrace of the hurtful past, and continuing on from there, Mitsuki and Takayuki's is a forgetting of the past and starting a new page. That's the best way I can put it.. And like I said, I'm just wondering if this was a deliberate parallel event that the producers put in to clearly establish Mitsuki/Haruka as polar opposites.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by arias

But I'm afraid both of us are missing our points just by a SLIGHT bit; what I'm saying is that whereas Haruka is willing to accept the difficulties and tribulations encountered (ie. she doesn't want to turn time back; she accepts the pains as part of the process to a greater fruit), Mitsuki is more denying of that pain.. So they start over again, as if in denial that those painful things ever happened (which is somewhat reflected in how their reconciliation is not truly a "review" of the past but a purpose towards the future).

This is my opinion on this matter but let's just deconstruct this a bit. What you say is quite true, but any denial of the past isn't as literal as you say it is. A 'denial of the past' (for Mitsuki and Takayuki's case at least) also implies the very remembering of it, precisely because they wish to start all over again. For if you're saying that such is a total denial, then for what are they starting over for? Ironically, once Takayuki asserts and promises to forget the past in front of Mitsuki, he's also affirming its very existence in order to start over again. Mitsuki can never truly 'deny' or truly reject the pains of the past. None of the character can--even Haruka, who understands the three years she has lost. That too is part of her past. With this said, I agree with Mentar's comment about rejecting the old life rather than the past itself.

Originally Posted by arias

So while Haruka and Takayuki's story arc in the first episode seems to be an embrace of the hurtful past, and continuing on from there, Mitsuki and Takayuki's is a forgetting of the past and starting a new page. That's the best way I can put it.. And like I said, I'm just wondering if this was a deliberate parallel event that the producers put in to clearly establish Mitsuki/Haruka as polar opposites.

Sorry, but I don't exactly understand what you're saying here. How can Takayuki and Haruka's high school relationship be the embrace of a hurtful past? That relationship was Takayuki's romantic ideal in the present--the sweet reminiscence of youth, of promises and affection, of past love--which, due to Haruka's accident never received any proper closure. This past isn't exactly that which hurts him, but its loss and the guilt that goes along with his realization that he was unable prevent it. Couple these with the past suddenly resurfacing in the present, and you have the scenario of the series.

[Pheiverave]

Akane certainly made several touching speeches, and I hated it when Mitsuki started getting depressed (don't think its a spoiler), but to me the most touching was the last episode, when Haruka and Takayuki were talking by the beach.

[arias]

Originally Posted by kujoe

This is my opinion on this matter but let's just deconstruct this a bit. What you say is quite true, but any denial of the past isn't as literal as you say it is. A 'denial of the past' (for Mitsuki and Takayuki's case at least) also implies the very remembering of it, precisely because they wish to start all over again. For if you're saying that such is a total denial, then for what are they starting over for? Ironically, once Takayuki asserts and promises to forget the past in front of Mitsuki, he's also affirming its very existence in order to start over again. Mitsuki can never truly 'deny' or truly reject the pains of the past. None of the character can--even Haruka, who understands the three years she has lost. That too is part of her past. With this said, I agree with Mentar's comment about rejecting the old life rather than the past itself.

Sorry, but I don't exactly understand what you're saying here. How can Takayuki and Haruka's high school relationship be the embrace of a hurtful past? That relationship was Takayuki's romantic ideal in the present--the sweet reminiscence of youth, of promises and affection, of past love--which, due to Haruka's accident never received any proper closure. This past isn't exactly that which hurts him, but its loss and the guilt that goes along with his realization that he was unable prevent it. Couple these with the past suddenly resurfacing in the present, and you have the scenario of the series.

I give up on trying to explain.. perhaps my linguistic ability to communicate is inadequate or my points are invalid. I'll keep your points in mind and think about them though.. thanks.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by arias

What I'm saying is that.. ESSENTIALLY, I'm drawing parallel references between Mitsuki (Final episode) and Haruka (FIRST episode, NOT 13th episode!!).

Haruka was together with Takayuki, hurt by him, broke up (kinda), and Takayuki asked her to come back to him (kinda). He said that if he had a chance to change things.. he would want to go back to the start and... Haruka interrupted by saying no, she doesn't think it's right to deny whatever hurts that have happened, and that she's willing to accept all those AS trials and tribulations to the present gift.

I'm wondering whether the producers deliberately drew this as a parallel to Mitsuki in the final episode, where it's an essentially elongated version of the above.

Mitsuki was with Haruka, hurt by him, broke up (kinda) and Takayuki asked her to come back to him (yeah). Mitsuki doesn't want to go back to the old life, she wants to deny those pains (in my opinion) ever happened.. And so Takayuki tells her "let's start again..".

So while Haruka and Takayuki's story arc in the first episode seems to be an embrace of the hurtful past, and continuing on from there, Mitsuki and Takayuki's is a forgetting of the past and starting a new page. That's the best way I can put it.. And like I said, I'm just wondering if this was a deliberate parallel event that the producers put in to clearly establish Mitsuki/Haruka as polar opposites.

What you are saying is very interesting - you're very keen to notice that parallel and I think you're right. However, I think Mitsuki reading Haruka's book at the end of the show symbolizes that she has, in fact, not forgotten about the past, but rather accepted it, just as Haruka had done in the first episode. Only through acceptance of the past can we hope to move to the eternity we desire... that's what I think the message of the show was all about. If you keep dwelling on the past, you haven't accepted it yet, which is what was killing Takayuki and Mitsuki's relationship. I don't think it's that she really wanted to forget about it, or wanted him to forget about it either, but rather that she wanted them both to accept it one way or another and move on, whatever the consequences may be. Dwelling on it was simply too painful.

In any case, good point. I think it's getting close to time for me to watch this series again. I wonder what kind of emotional impact it will have on me the second time through...

[arias]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

What you are saying is very interesting - you're very keen to notice that parallel and I think you're right. However, I think Mitsuki reading Haruka's book at the end of the show symbolizes that she has, in fact, not forgotten about the past, but rather accepted it, just as Haruka had done in the first episode. Only through acceptance of the past can we hope to move to the eternity we desire... that's what I think the message of the show was all about. If you keep dwelling on the past, you haven't accepted it yet, which is what was killing Takayuki and Mitsuki's relationship. I don't think it's that she really wanted to forget about it, or wanted him to forget about it either, but rather that she wanted them both to accept it one way or another and move on, whatever the consequences may be. Dwelling on it was simply too painful.

In any case, good point. I think it's getting close to time for me to watch this series again. I wonder what kind of emotional impact it will have on me the second time through...

I'm so touched you understand what I said ;_; (I hope). I was beginning to give up on thinking about these sorts of things.. It was because I was always pondering about the ending, which I felt was a little lacklustre due to the weak closure that I somehow remembered the beginning with Haruka..

And I agree that in the game Mitsuki's reading of the book is a symbol of accepting the past and attaining "the eternity we desire", as well as the future. Her child is also a sign of the future, is it not? The series left out this ending scene, so what you said might not make a connection with those who are unfamiliar with the game. If it were not for Haruka's positively-brimming narration of her story, as well as the uplifting background music, we don't really know whether Takayuki and Mitsuki are happy.

Consider a person who hasn't played the game; and only watched the anime. We don't see how happy Takayuki and Mitsuki are, but we know they're together because she's wearing his ring. She doesn't read Haruka's book, only the newspapers which Akane is on (which we could bite the bullet and argue is a thin thread back to Haruka). There's actually no "accepting of the past" if we follow your thought that reading the book was a sign of Mitsuki accepting the past. In the anime, Takayuki was just about to buy the book I myself was quite confused on whether Takayuki/Mitsuki were happy together or not.. The scenes seemed almost ambiguous. Although I was very sure of Haruka's optimism (ahh.. Haruka...)

I wished the anime had more complete scenes from the game. Without them, it actually makes it feel quite empty.. I would have loved just seeing them hold hands. It would add THAT much closure, in my opinion. Regardless, the ending was supposed to end on a high note I guess ~ And it's that "O" full circle ending again, with the last scene of their old photograph. Acckk. Shinji really, really didn't matter, imo.

Please, come back and divulge your experiences after you've seen it again.. I've only seen it recently, and I'm definitely not watching it again anytime soon.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by arias

Consider a person who hasn't played the game; and only watched the anime. We don't see how happy Takayuki and Mitsuki are, but we know they're together because she's wearing his ring. She doesn't read Haruka's book, only the newspapers which Akane is on (which we could bite the bullet and argue is a thin thread back to Haruka). There's actually no "accepting of the past" if we follow your thought that reading the book was a sign of Mitsuki accepting the past. In the anime, Takayuki was just about to buy the book I myself was quite confused on whether Takayuki/Mitsuki were happy together or not.. The scenes seemed almost ambiguous. Although I was very sure of Haruka's optimism (ahh.. Haruka...)

I wished the anime had more complete scenes from the game. Without them, it actually makes it feel quite empty.. I would have loved just seeing them hold hands. It would add THAT much closure, in my opinion. Regardless, the ending was supposed to end on a high note I guess ~ And it's that "O" full circle ending again, with the last scene of their old photograph. Acckk. Shinji really, really didn't matter, imo.

Actually, I haven't played the game yet myself (I'm still working on my Japanese), but after watching the anime I felt a similar kind of hole in the anime. So, I did some research on the game, both on these boards and elsewhere, to try to fill in the gaps that kind of hurt the emotional progression of the characters in the anime. Really, the biggest gaps were at the beginning and at the end. Without a little background from the game, you don't understand the realization that led to Takayuki asking Haruka out "for real" at the end of the first episode; you wonder whether or not he's still doing it out of pity (at least I did). And, at the end, you are left to believe that Mitsuki has shut Haruka out of her life completely, whereas the game (from what I understand at least) leaves you with a feeling of hope through Mitsuki's reading of Haruka's book to her son. I still enjoyed the anime immensely (well, I'm not sure if "enjoy" is exactly the right word, but I really appreciated it and count it as a favorite), but I definitely agree that having some extra knowledge about the game really helps fill the emotional holes left after watching the show (and it definitely left some emotional holes!).

[arias]

Exactly. That was what I perceived of the anime; that in Episode 1 Takayuki asked Haruka to "really" start again somewhat out of pity or impulse. Isn't that what it's supposed to be, anyway? You're telling me that the game portrays this differently? Actually I feel the same as you do; I'm not really sure I "enjoyed" KimiNozo. It's something that I could connect with, there were elements of it I thought were brilliant, but I didn't really "enjoy" it as much as I.. well.. was intrigued/respected it? I'm not sure how to describe it myself.

Given the differences between the anime and the game; I wonder whether each are supposed to be taken wholly by itself. Are we supposed to take the anime fully as it is without referring to the game and trying to fill the holes with it? I suppose it will then be in some aspects a different picture with a different tone..

I have not played the game, by the way. I have no ounce of knowledge of Japanese. Hopefully that will soon be rectified.

[DarkCntry]

Originally Posted by arias

Exactly. That was what I perceived of the anime; that in Episode 1 Takayuki asked Haruka to "really" start again somewhat out of pity or impulse. Isn't that what it's supposed to be, anyway? You're telling me that the game portrays this differently? Actually I feel the same as you do; I'm not really sure I "enjoyed" KimiNozo. It's something that I could connect with, there were elements of it I thought were brilliant, but I didn't really "enjoy" it as much as I.. well.. was intrigued/respected it? I'm not sure how to describe it myself.

Given the differences between the anime and the game; I wonder whether each are supposed to be taken wholly by itself. Are we supposed to take the anime fully as it is without referring to the game and trying to fill the holes with it? I suppose it will then be in some aspects a different picture with a different tone..

I have not played the game, by the way. I have no ounce of knowledge of Japanese. Hopefully that will soon be rectified.

The game's story, in a nutshell, mirrors that of the anime except for one detail...You affect the outcome of the story and it then adapts to the changes you take. The series pretty much tries to mirror the Mitsuki path, but to keep interesting I think they threw in some of the Haruka path. While there are changes made due to story flow and timing, there's not much else that has changed. Considering the sheer amount of content between each character's seperate paths, it's not really much you can fault between how the game progressed compared to the anime and vice versa.

But of course, I have yet to complete the game on any path yet

[arias]

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

The game's story, in a nutshell, mirrors that of the anime except for one detail...You affect the outcome of the story and it then adapts to the changes you take. The series pretty much tries to mirror the Mitsuki path, but to keep interesting I think they threw in some of the Haruka path. While there are changes made due to story flow and timing, there's not much else that has changed. Considering the sheer amount of content between each character's seperate paths, it's not really much you can fault between how the game progressed compared to the anime and vice versa.

But of course, I have yet to complete the game on any path yet

Hmm.. Sounds ok; I'm not sure whether the game will really provide any suprises for me. But given my non-existent knowledge of the Japanese language, I figure it'll take me at least two years before I play the game. Crap. That's depressing.

[DarkCntry]

Originally Posted by arias

Hmm.. Sounds ok; I'm not sure whether the game will really provide any suprises for me. But given my non-existent knowledge of the Japanese language, I figure it'll take me at least two years before I play the game. Crap. That's depressing.

Heh, the surprises that you can get from the game is the twists you can take to affect the outcome. You could go down the Mitsuki path only to do something your gut tells you to do only to end up now on the Akane path....then somehow end up on the Ayu path...then on the Haruka...basically the game is a damn good way to see what would happen if you were left to the choice of who you'd rather be with.

Damn good way to see the character's on a different level. I swear I still more want background on Ayu.....

[DukeGaladrien]

God reading this forum is killing me. I want to play the game so fricken bad now. Of course the only Japanese I know is the few words I've picked up here and there watching anime (meaning nothing) and am completely clueless when it comes to kanji.

I guess that means I'll just have to go find someone to play the game next to me and translate hehe.

[arias]

Doesn't anyone else think that Haruka sounds abit goofy? But a very cute kind of goofy.

(edit) I know why now. It's that NASAL VOICE XD XD XD~~~

[timojasper]

I am at episode 7 now, and its 6 AM. This anime is SOOO GOOD! I just had to post scream it out somewhere!

At some points I had trouble keeping in my tears.

[yellowkaiq]

Yes, I am also like you, timo, as I watched it nonstop into the night. Then I couldn't sleep because of the ending, and i spent all night contemplating the anime.