(L) Ichigo 100%

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by Waven

You gotta be kidding. This spineless little... whatever, your opinion

he's spineless but man that guys gotta a heart of gold, pure 24k gold. Men should treat women like that, but be a slightly bit more accertive. Other than being a coward he's better than lots of typical shounen harem leads.

Just to clarify I'm talking about Fuguno from Yume de Aetera. It's good/great probably not the best but man the lead is a sweet dude, hes not a prick who only thinks about sex, he actually cares about the girl he loves and man this guy sacrifices everything to be with her, what a man should do. If you haven't read this manga do it, its worth it.

[kakakka]

^That's how I want to see Manaka develop, but I guess with the mangaka being a woman, she has no idea on how to make Manaka's character evolve *ducks from the angry supporters of the mangaka*

[Vexx]

Um... no not "because she's a woman". That's just misogynist BS There are plenty of authors who can write about the other sex quite effectively and convincingly. There are also authors who can't write effectively no matter what sex any of the characters are.

The author simply either intended to drag it out for much longer or simply lacked the skills to converge the series. It is just that the book sales dropped faster than expected and the publisher pulled the plug (leaving her with an epilog as the only graceful exit). I've read some of her other work... .she's really pretty good at specific scenes or character design (of either sex) - she just doesn't seem to have a lot of skill points in telling a story that builds to a climax and then ends satisfactorily.

[MINAMI KOTARO]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Hanamichi is nothing like Amachi but like Harima Kenji....

i didn't say both of them are looks alike
only they have the same problem.
loves a girl who already likes someone else.

[Fran~]

Amachi was a little more pathetic than Junpei.... Harima and Sakuragi probably are losers, but not pathetic.

[kakakka]

Um... no not "because she's a woman". That's just misogynist BS

Yeah, I know. I just wanted to type that for fun/jokes. (sorry for those offended...)

Amachi was a little more pathetic than Junpei....

Being indecisive is more pathetic, IMO.

[Fran~]

Being obsessive is more pathetic... that's the difference. Why?, because in this case -junpei's case- the decision wasnt easy AT ALL... but in the end, he finally made a decision.

Obsessive > indecision.

[kakakka]

Yeah, he made a decision, but still doubts himself making that decision. That's pathetic IMO. He was still indecesive until the end. That's why he broke up with Tsukasa before she left for Paris.

Atleast with obsessiveness, there is a firm decision and act to go along with it.

[Eurys]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Being obsessive is more pathetic... that's the difference. Why?, because in this case -junpei's case- the decision wasnt easy AT ALL... but in the end, he finally made a decision.

Obsessive > indecision.

Well, it's not in my opinion. With indicision, you're hurting others. You're letting others obsess other you.
It wasn't easy either for Amachi to try and try again despite knowing there'd be a good chance he'd be rejected. Plus, I wouldn't call Amachi's feelings total obsession. He genuinely loved Aya even if he came a little too strong sometimes (heh, he was the only one to recognize her with her glasses, even Junpei had troubles ).
His reaction when she firmly put an end to it was genuine. And he was always faithful to her yet helpful to other girls without misleading them.

Then again I'm a woman and Junpei is far, FAR AWAY from a decent male imo.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by kakakka

Yeah, he made a decision

Yup... he made a decision.

Atleast with obsessiveness, there is a firm decision and act to go along with it.

Obsessiveness is not a quality to be proud... how many women are suffering in the world by guys with that disorder?... obsessiveness is bad... there is just a short step to be a stalker.

Originally Posted by Eurys

Well, it's not in my opinion. With indicision, you're hurting others. You're letting others obsess other you.
It wasn't easy either for Amachi to try and try again despite knowing there'd be a good chance he'd be rejected. Plus, I wouldn't call Amachi's feelings total obsession. He genuinely loved Aya even if he came a little too strong sometimes (heh, he was the only one to recognize her with her glasses, even Junpei had troubles ).

One sided love isn't love... without a counterpart there is no love... just a broken heart.
A sign of madurity is the capacity to get over it and move on. Being obsessive is as pathetic as being indecisive... and hurts people too, because the person who is the "love" of the obsessive feels guilty for not feel the same... and that hurts like hell too.

Then again I'm a woman and Junpei is far, FAR AWAY from a decent male imo.

Agreed... Junpei isnt a model to follow.

[Waven]

Originally Posted by Fran~

...
Agreed... Junpei isnt a model to follow.

Harem situations as a whole are pretty messed up once they are raised out of the comedic sphere. The moment an author tries to mix harem with serious romance and drama it's only natural and justified for most readers to dislike the male lead whose flaws (here: indecision) create this ridiculous harem situation. This is why i think school days is a (great) satire of this exact situation which i deem as unnatural and screwed beyond oblivion.

[kakakka]

Obsessiveness is not a quality to be proud... how many women are suffering in the world by guys with that disorder?... obsessiveness is bad... there is just a short step to be a stalker.

There's a varying degree IMO. And in no way Amachi got into that much of obsessive mode that you want to portray he did. He's been direct, he loved Aya and didn't gave up, which is what Junpei didn't do to any of the female he ever encounter. I think the only time he became aggressive like as you said is when he talk to Aya at the end. Did he moved on after that? Yes, and in no way he harmed Aya to a degree he has to be hated. What I am saying is... At least Amachi's quality of "obsessiveness", there is a direction of what he has to do. Junpei on the other hand, his indecisiveness doesn't, which even at the end, he just went with the flow and made excuses to lick his wounds

[Fran~]

Harm... there is also a varying degree... not only physical but psychological.
IMHO... obsessiveness in any degree is fail.

With this i'm not "defending" Junpei... he is just a lucky fail, but im not agree with people like Amachi, no way... any degree of obsessiveness, obsessivity or harrasment is fail and illegal.

Obsessiveness =/= Tenacity.

[kakakka]

Harm...there is also a varying degree... not only physical but psychological.
IMHO... obsessiveness in any degree is fail.

If you consider everyone very weak, then sure...

Ok, I'm done with this. I gave my opinion about this, and my opinion still stand (atleast for me) that Indecisiveness is more pathetic. No man can ever go forward with that quality, nor deserve anything.

[Fran~]

It's ok, i'm not saying that Indecisiveness isn't pathetic, it is... but obsessiveness is beyond pathetic, is very dangerous... that's why im being very clear about Amachi, i saw with my own eyes how much dangerous obsessiveness is.

Let's back to the topic

[AyaToujo]

amachi was too pushful/agressive

[MINAMI KOTARO]

Originally Posted by Fran~

obsessivity or harrasment is fail and illegal.

Obsessiveness =/= Tenacity.

obsessive ain't the same as harrasment. besides, amachi didn't harras any girl.
yes, Obsessiveness =/= Tenacity. and i think amachi is more like tenacious than obsessive.

Originally Posted by Fran~

Amachi was a little more pathetic than Junpei.... Harima and Sakuragi probably are losers, but not pathetic.

no...amachi wasn't pathetic at all...
he wasn't that obsessive, he really loves aya
if u want to see the pathetic obsessive, read GTO, the math teacher with a glasses who stalked fuyutsuki and took her photos stealthily and even tried to take advantage of her after made her fall a sleep (by using some drugs). thats the pathetic. and thats the harrasment

so, i think amachi and hanamichi sakuragi shares the same problem.

its normal for a guy to chase one girl that he likes
indeed, he made one mistake by trying to steal a kiss from aya.
i admit it, it was wrong. but he didn't try to hurt aya, because he didn't use any force.
he is just an ordinary man anyway. every human happens to make mistake at least once.
and did he try to forcefully pursue aya after that incident? did he even try to harass her? NO
he wasn't mad at all and he learnt his lesson from that incident. so he is not crazy nor obsessive pathetic as u labeled him.
its only the mangaka didn't give him any chance to patch up his mistake.

but junpei...he made too many mistake and hurt the girls (and he didn't learn at all)
junpei was the pathetic
the one who can't decide and only hurting many girls feeling is the pathetic one.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by MINAMI KOTARO

its normal for a guy to chase one girl that he likes

No, the way that Amachi used, no. There is ways to do things, you can help her, you can talk with her, but being so hotblooded to the point of being uncomfortable to Aya... no. If a woman says "no"... is NO.

No one can command a woman's heart.

indeed, he made one mistake by trying to steal a kiss from aya.

See?

i admit it, it was wrong. but he didn't try to hurt aya, because he didn't use any force.

But he did it... all men say that in front a judge: "i didn't try to hurt her your honor... i did it because i love her" (?)
Again, you dont need force to hurt people... actions, words, etc... can be painful too.

[MINAMI KOTARO]

Originally Posted by Fran~

No, the way that Amachi used, no. There is ways to do things, you can help her, you can talk with her, but being so hotblooded to the point of being uncomfortable to Aya... no. If a woman says "no"... is NO.

No one can command a woman's heart.


See?


But he did it... all men say that in front a judge: "i didn't try to hurt her your honor... i did it because i love her" (?)
Again, you dont need force to hurt people... actions, words, etc... can be painful too.

for his action in trying to steal a kiss from aya, indeed, it was wrong.
i didn't say he was right by doing that, but u said he was pathetic by just that?
haven't u ever made mistake to someone before?
everybody as a human being would make mistake,
and a human couldn't runaway from "doing mistake". nobody is perfect.
its just human to make mistake.
amachi wasn't pathetic at all. and he learnt his lesson by that incident.

i would call him pathetic if he obsessed to aya til the point he want to do something like "the bad math teacher from GTO" did to fuyutsuki.
besides, amachi more like being stubborn than being obsessed.

and u even said he was more pathetic than junpei?
junpei hurt the girls in the whole volumes
if u said amachi is pathetic, then junpei is the most pathetic. because he made too many mistake compared to amachi.

[Fran~]

Am i talking about Junpei?... no...

Im talking about no one could defend obsessiveness on a girl. I dont know a single case of indecisiveness in a court... but i DO know thousands of cases of obsessiveness.

That's my point. Obsessiveness is a disease, a mental disorder who can be way too dangerous:

Characteristics indicative of obsessive love are:

* Obsessive lovers believe that only the person they fixate on can make them feel happy and fulfilled.
* Persons close to the love-obsessed can also be greatly affected. Witnessing a friend or family member suffer from the disorder can be distressing.
* The person obsessed cannot accept the other person to be happy when they are suffering.