(L) Ichigo 100%

[MINAMI KOTARO]

Originally Posted by AyaToujo

of course not but it was better way to handle it instead of getting hurt all the time

it was because junpei's indecisiveness

[Fran~]

And because Aya was so weak-willed and insecure about her love.
OTOH, Nishino was more aggresive than Aya, but more delicate than Satsuki... balance = win.

[justavisitor]

lol Fran~, you just have to bring up the weak-willed statement again eh

Well, it really depends on the taste of the male lead I guess...well one can say Nishino is perfect for luring this type of male lead (Don't beat me up Nishino fans, I like Nishino as well, just saying XD)...the male lead in this series doesn't like a girl who is too aggressive, but like girl who explicitly states that he is important to her...and I can only say that Nishino hits all the right button

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

lol Fran~, you just have to bring up the weak-willed statement again eh

What about Junpei's indecesiveness over and over statement?... it is the same... there are no further explanation to the situation. The combination of a girl who is insecure (as her brother stated) and a boy who is indecesive is fail.

And yes... you are right... Nishino was the only one who apparently fits Junpei's taste.

[kakakka]

Yet, he doesn't deserve her...

[Fran~]

Deserve is a meaningless word in front of love. Talking about "deserve" doesn't avoid to feel love for someone else. It's totally independant one thing from another.

A good boy or a good girl could deserve the biggest love, but for some reasons they can't reach that... or backwards, there are boys and girls who doesn't deserve people who love them... but they exist... so... "deserve" is meaningless.

[justavisitor]

oh, sorry fran~ I didn't know your response was directed to "indecisiveness"...

Well, if Nishino loves Junpei (which she does), and Junpei really loves her (and seems like he does at the end), then I guess Junpei deserves to get Nishino then...

So Aya loves the male lead is because he was the only one who supports her when she wore glasses
Nishino loves the male lead is because of his courage to yell at the teacher and takes the punishment with his friend
Satsuki (sorry for the sp) loves the male lead is because of the same habit and the kindness from the male lead
Yui loves the male lead is because of the same childhood experience

Am I right??

but what about vice versa?? did Junpei like them just because they are lovely?? I mean, were there any other reasons??

[kakakka]

Deserve is a meaningless word in front of love. Talking about "deserve" doesn't avoid to feel love for someone else. It's totally independant one thing from another.

But whatever you put it, IMO, he didn't showed me enough that he deserve Nishino.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

oh, sorry fran~ I didn't know your response was directed to "indecisiveness"...

No problem

Well, if Nishino loves Junpei (which she does), and Junpei really loves her (and seems like he does at the end), then I guess Junpei deserves to get Nishino then...

To me is simple as that... of course there was a lot of wounded in the way, but that the way that it is. It's sad though...

So Aya loves the male lead is because he was the only one who supports her when she wore glasses

I think that Aya was comfortable with him because he never laugh about her dreams, he encourages her, and give it some security to do what she wants.
Despite all things that happened, i think that Junpei respected her... as a woman who is chasing the same dream than he is. Without Junpei, Aya probably would never be a writter.

To an insecure girl with a dream, to be with a man who gave her security, who even share her dream is a almost a fantasy.

Nishino loves the male lead is because of his courage to yell at the teacher and takes the punishment with his friend

Nishino notices how different was Junpei from others men when she hear how Junpei's friend were speaking bad of Aya (the dinosaur)... to a girl who is worshipped as an idol, hear a man defending a girl who is treated like a dinosaur is also a fantasy. Pretty girls has that problem, they don't know if the men are chasing the "body" or the "heart". Nishino finds a man who was chasing the heart and not the body.

Satsuki (sorry for the sp) loves the male lead is because of the same habit and the kindness from the male lead

Satsuki finds a friend IMHO. Like Nishino, Junpei wasn't chasing the body of Satsuki, even she took advantage of that.

Yui loves the male lead is because of the same childhood experience

Yeah, like sister/brother complex.

but what about vice versa?? did Junpei like them just because they are lovely?? I mean, were there any other reasons??

I think that Junpei only had feelings of love for Nishino and Aya... Aya evolved from a dinosaur to one hot girl. Nishino was always Nishino.
Junpei saw in Aya one girl with the same goals and dreams, with Nishino he saw a cute girl who also loves him from the very beginning.

The BIG difference, IMHO, i said it a lot of times. Nishino was more secure than Aya, and she use that feeling to kept Junpei by her side. Aya never raised the bet because of her insecurity.

Originally Posted by kakakka

But whatever you put it, IMO, he didn't showed me enough that he deserve Nishino.

And what is it the problem with that?...

[MINAMI KOTARO]

Originally Posted by Fran~

And because Aya was so weak-willed and insecure about her love.
OTOH, Nishino was more aggresive than Aya, but more delicate than Satsuki... balance = win.

did u read the topic? please read previous posts. we didn't talk about why junpei didn't choose aya.
i was talking about junpei hurting satsuki because of his indecisiveness...why did u bring aya and tsukasa?
did aya made junpei hurt satsuki?

Originally Posted by Fran~

What about Junpei's indecesiveness over and over statement?... it is the same... there are no further explanation to the situation. The combination of a girl who is insecure (as her brother stated) and a boy who is indecesive is fail.

And yes... you are right... Nishino was the only one who apparently fits Junpei's taste.

sigh...looks like this guy takes everything personally...

i agree, tsukasa was the right type for junpei.
but aya wasn't weak-willed. because weak-willed is more like lazy.
she is not a lazy person.
she has the will, but she just didn't have enough courage to tell junpei directly about her feeling, and so with junpei too...
and when they realized it, it was already too late (chapter 163).
it was because miscommunication that aya and junpei's relationship didn't make up.
because, to be together, people need more than just love , they need to communicate it. and tsukasa communicate her feeling well.

[taelrak]

Ah, and here I thought the Ichigo thread was going to die down to inactivity

Weak-willed has nothing to do with being lazy. Please look it up:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=weak-willed


Not having courage = a form of being weak willed.
Wanting to speak up, but being unable to = a form of being weak-willed.
Allowing herself to be talked into setting Junpei up with Kozue when she wants him herself and hated doing it = weak-willed.
Being "persuaded" into going to a worse school than intended = weak-willed.

The list goes on. Anytime she allows someone else's decision to override and sway her own interests when she clearly wanted to do something else = weak-willed.

[justavisitor]

@taelrak
I guess it depends on ppl's point of view to see if Aya is weak-willed or not

I think many ppl would agree that Aya is too shy to confess her feeling...but shyness doesn't really equal to weak-willed

perhaps my viewpoint is influenced by a manga called "I''s" where in I"s

Spoiler for spoiler for I"s:

The male lead and female lead takes 10 volumes to confess their feeling to each other, so they are very shy or weak-willed in your own opinion, but once they got hooked up, the sacrifices that they make, especially on the male lead, are incredible

So you can either say Aya is weak-willed, or you can say she sacrifices a lot...it really depends on your viewpoint

[BetoJR]

But self-sacrifice due to cowardice (as is the case, here) doesn't really count. It's really a matter of semantics (do check the link taelrak so kindly provided): it's a textbook definition for Aya's behavior throughout most of the manga.
She did have a very weak sense of will, and was capable of being manipulated into situations quite easily. Does it make her any less sympathetic? I don't think so. Then, what's the problem? It's a character trait, no more, no less.

[taelrak]

I've read I"s, and I would agree (best that I can remember) that the two protagonists in there aren't weak-willed (but I'd have to re-read it to be certain).

But at any rate, like BetoJR said, there's a fundamental difference between being shy to speak up about your love as opposed to letting the person you love be taken away.

To me, it's something like this:

Shy: omg I love that guy but I'm too embarrassed to tell anyone.

Weak-willed: omg I love that guy, but I'll help set Kozue up with him because my other friend asked me to, even though I really really really don't want to....

[kakakka]

I"s protagonist are a bit weak-willed. The only difference is that there are people/friends that provide some push and options to support the characters.

[justavisitor]

I would say that in I"s, male and female lead are very shy to get together, but once they are together, they do everything they can to upload the relationship, and the sacrifices they make are very touching and also indicate that they are very devoting to their relationship, so I think they are "strong willed" at this part

Now the problem is that Aya never gets together with Junpei, so I cannot exactly compare Aya to the female lead of I"s, but I have a feeling that Aya is very similar to the female lead in I"s

But I can still use some examples to suggest that Aya may seem soft on outside, but she can be tough at times...I know Aya joins the writing club thinking that the filming club no longer exists, but on the other hand, she doesn't drop the writing club after joining the filming club in order to please the male lead

also she doesn't get easily swayed (yes, BetoJR, I had checked the link before I replied in my previous post XD) when that stalker repeatedly states that how much he loves her

She loves writing, and she loves Junpei also, so she is trying her best to cope with these two "dreams"...and that's nothing wrong with that...she doesn't get easily swayed (again BetoJR, I checked the link XD) and we see her achievement in writing...she achieved that while staying with Junpei

And writer can become script writer...it's not like writer and director are mutually exclusive to each other

In summary, Aya to me is like the female lead in I"s, seems shy and soft on outside, but they also have their principle and they are willing to make sacrifices for something they devote on, but the problem is, in Aya's case, we never see her and Junpei get together so we have less chance to see her "true self" like the female lead in I"s

[taelrak]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

I would say that in I"s, male and female lead are very shy to get together, but once they are together, they do everything they can to upload the relationship, and the sacrifices they make are very touching and also indicate that they are very devoting to their relationship, so I think they are "strong willed" at this part

Now the problem is that Aya never gets together with Junpei, so I cannot exactly compare Aya to the female lead of I"s, but I have a feeling that Aya is very similar to the female lead in I"s

But I can still use some examples to suggest that Aya may seem soft on outside, but she can be tough at times...I know Aya joins the writing club thinking that the filming club no longer exists, but on the other hand, she doesn't drop the writing club after joining the filming club in order to please the male lead

also she doesn't get easily swayed (yes, BetoJR, I had checked the link before I replied in my previous post XD) when that stalker repeatedly states that how much he loves her

She loves writing, and she loves Junpei also, so she is trying her best to cope with these two "dreams"...and that's nothing wrong with that...she doesn't get easily swayed (again BetoJR, I checked the link XD) and we see her achievement in writing...she achieved that while staying with Junpei

And writer can become script writer...it's not like writer and director are mutually exclusive to each other

In summary, Aya to me is like the female lead in I"s, seems shy and soft on outside, but they also have their principle and they are willing to make sacrifices for something they devote on, but the problem is, in Aya's case, we never see her and Junpei get together so we have less chance to see her "true self" like the female lead in I"s

Yea, as I mentioned earlier, I felt that joining the writing club was really a great step forward for her, and I felt it was a great piece of development of her character.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to stick though. I don't know if the mangaka decided to backtrack because she wanted to make the manga longer than anticipated or something, but Aya actually seems to regress...

Sure, she stayed in the Writing club, but for the majority of the story, she came across as writing to please Junpei, instead of for her own sake. I don't think it was until the very end when she finally gives the finished story to Junpei in that snowy farewell scene that she really "graduates" into her own dream. There were some intermediate steps that she took, such as choosing a college for herself instead of just to be with Junpei, but for the most part, her resolution came only really at the very end, after it was too late.

But as Beto said, being weak-willed isn't really a negative trait in this context. Most protagonists in harems stories tend to be weak-willed - otherwise where would the story be? It's really in watching the characters mature and grow beyond that that makes character development so interesting. I really got a sense of satisfaction in watching these characters overcome their shortcomings and obstacles than simply having them be all "perfect" to begin with.

[MINAMI KOTARO]

Originally Posted by taelrak

Weak-willed: omg I love that guy, but I'll help set Kozue up with him because my other friend asked me to, even though I really really really don't want to....

well, she was so shy that she afraid everyone would notice her feeling toward junpei if she didn't do that.

hm, she used to be an ugly duckling, of course she would be that shy and afraid that junpei would hate her if she said her feeling to junpei.
even though she already became a beautiful girl, she still didn't have enough confidence. she still didn't get used to something called love. poor aya.
if she was weak-willed she would already fell for amachi.

ehm, after 4 years, junpei has become a more dependable man and aya has become more mature,being more able to control herself, and has more courage.
i think they would make a good couple, ah but it was already too late i guess.
junpei already picked tsukasa.

[justavisitor]

@taelrak

I have never said that weak-willed is a negative trait in this context. I am just saying that probably due to the effect of I"s (I read I"s first), Aya to me is like that female lead in I"s, shy and soft on outside, but can be very mentally strong at times.

Well, actually I guess we view things in similar way, it's just that we vary in the definition of weak-willed...to me Aya is shy, but she never get swayed from that stalker, she tries her best to chase both dreams (writing and Junpei), yes compromise has to be made (like she spends extra time to write script for Junpei), but she loves writing and Junpei from chapter 1 all the way to the end...

To me, the male lead is much more weak-willed..he gets swayed between those 4 girls. He even gives in to Satsuki after her seduction at one time. And he makes decision to accept Nishino again partly due to the observation that Aya is holding hand with an unknown guy

lol, I don't know what to say anymore, so I might just end it here and check out the response from you guys (if there is any...) XD

[kakakka]

If Manaka has more serious friends to talk to, he won't be weak and easily swayed.
Doesn't he have a friend to talk about love porblems back from the beginning? What happened to that guy @-@