Shin High School Volume 1 Discussion

[Gaizafaiz]

Originally Posted by Sekiryuu12

She is 117 - 100y in coma so yes =D.

I know that she is 17, a 2nd year high school student but is she in the same class as them? I assume she is.

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Your logic for saying Issei's team fat outclassed Rias' is....................

You call my statement about the teams being equal illogical but then follow it up by saying that Issei's team far outclasses Rias'. Do you have any proof of that?

I already explained it in like two previous messages which you have chosen to ignore, but fine then, here is the logic to why Issei's team far surpasses Rias' (yet again...).

Rias' team only has one god-class fighter in Crom, and Crom can be easily dealt with by Ddraig. With Crom out of the equation there's no one who can stop DxD Issei from finishing things. This can also be done in vice-versa with Issei fighting Crom and Ddraig finishing things off, and it might be even easier since Issei has both Ascalon and Ascalon II. This is all without even having to take into account the rest of Issei's team, who are still comparable to that of Rias.

And now with the presence of Ingvild they can decimate Rias' team without any chance for them to fight back, as Ingvild could take control of Crom and turn him against Rias' team. In that situation Rias' team would have no god-class fighters and have to deal with a triple attack of Crom + Ddraig + DxD Issei. How does Rias' team even have a chance against that under normal circumstances?

[Jedsada]

Personally, I think Issei will beat Rias and reach the final since it's only way he can face Vali in this tournament (Both of them need to win 3 matches to meet each other in the final match).

Ishibumi already stated that Issei's story (As a main character) will end in this series. I don't think he will throw away the last chance for Issei and Vali to have a proper fight before series end. With the title "champion of international Rating Game" at stake, the mach is grand enough for the fight between Sekiryuutei and Hakuryuuko.

[Lucidrago]

One is that Rias can activate her Balor Form with Gasper and take on Issei or Ddraig. When it was used in Volume 24, it was still incomplete. And again you can't use one very powerful being to say one team far outclasses the other.

Two is that Rias has three Longinus on her team. You can say that they haven't mastered them but the abilities of the Longinus are effective against gods. We already got Asia's Balance Breaker negating the attacks of a Super Devil and a goddess, so what do you think a Longinus is able to do?

How do you even know he would add Ingvild onto his team? Mote likely than not, to add her own, he would have to take somebody out. Just because she became his queen doesn't mean he's adding her onto his team.

And you're acting like just one god-class fighter decides their team's success. You act as if It's as simple as taking Crom out of the picture or just bringing in Ddraig when it's not.

Have you considered what type of Rating Game it would be?

According to that, I would call their teams equal while giving Rias the slight edge due to her experience and ability as a leader over Issei. You might not think that matters but it actually does matter quite a great deal.

[Kazu-kun]

Rias might be the main heroine but she's ultimately just a haremette. Haremettes can lose at any moment to make the MC look good. A haremett's ultimate purpose is to suck the MC's d*ck anyway. Everything else is secondary to that.

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

One is that Rias can activate her Balor Form with Gasper and take on Issei or Ddraig. When it was used in Volume 24, it was still incomplete. And again you can't use one very powerful being to say one team far outclasses the other.

Two is that Rias has three Longinus on her team. You can say that they haven't mastered them but the abilities of the Longinus are effective against gods. We already got Asia's Balance Breaker negating the attacks of a Super Devil and a goddess, so what do you think a Longinus is able to do?

How do you even know he would add Ingvild onto his team? Mote likely than not, to add her own, he would have to take somebody out. Just because she became his queen doesn't mean he's adding her onto his team.

And you're acting like just one god-class fighter decides their team's success. You act as if It's as simple as taking Crom out of the picture or just bringing in Ddraig when it's not.

Have you considered what type of Rating Game it would be?

According to that, I would call their teams equal while giving Rias the slight edge due to her experience and ability as a leader over Issei. You might not think that matters but it actually does matter quite a great deal.

It was incomplete, but it has barely been any time since the Rating Game with Vali, and even then it was not god-class. Rias' Balor Form when complete, considering its base, is only average god-class at most, while both DxD Issei and Ddraig are far above average god-class. Rias is no match for either of them even in Balor form.

Those Longinus have not proven to do much up to now, considering Lint was merely equal to Sha Wujing who should be Ultimate-Class Devil level at most. The only real unpredictable factor is Valerie who has not really done anything up to now and hasn't even shown a Balance Breaker yet, so Ishibumi must have prepared something so she can have her spotlight. And yes, Longinus can affect god-class beings, but they are not equal to them in most cases, so the equivalency here is false.

I'm just talking in the case that he adds Ingvild to the team, and in this particular match-up, it would be foolish to not do so. She's much more useful than Grayfia against Rias' team and this is obvious. But even then, as I said, Issei's team already outclasses Rias' without Valerie revealing some unpredictable ace of her own, and bringing in Ingvild is just a thought of how hard Issei's team could possibly demolish Rias'.

It is that simple considering that Crom is just barely above Heavenly Dragon-class considering DxD Vali, who is at that level, could fight equally with him. Bringing in Ddraig with Boost, Transfer and Penetrate would spell Crom's doom. At the very least Crom won't be able to defeat Ddraig in a head-on fight.

Your question about me considering the Rating Game type makes it clear you didn't even read my previous post, since I explicitly said a way in which Rias' team could win is by having a favorable Rating Game ruleset.

You calling them equal still does not make sense. At most they can put up a fight if they battle head on, and at worst they get demolished. Rias is not equal to a DxD Issei or to Ddraig, and Rias' Longinus wielders are not equal to god-class beings. So where do you derive this equivalency from?

[DragonIsseiHyodoFan]

I feel he doesn't want Issei to win. Rias being defeated by Issei and Vali would be crushing for any Rias fan. ��

[Lucidrago]

Again using one powerful being to say one team outclasses the other. Where's your logic in that? Suddenly just having one extra god-class being makes one team overwhelmingly stronger than the other. Especially Rias' team which is full of monsters.

Rias' Balor Form allowed her to take on Fenrir. Although he was only at 80% power, Fenrir is still a being in the Top 10 at full power. For Rias to fight on par with Fenrir with just her first time using her Balor Form was impressive.

You say Ddraig and Issei are stronger. But you forgot that Rias' third eye(Gasper) in her Balor Form can basically just timestop anyone by simply looking at them. And she can move through shadows. Even if the timestop only works on Issei and Ddraig for a few seconds, that can easily be enough to hit either of them. You can't just go 'they're more powerful thus they win.' And besides we still don't know the exact conditions of Ddraig appearing. Is there a certain time limit that Ddraig can remain manifested like that? Does Ddraig have to stay within a certain distance of Issei to remain manifested like that? Everything has some sort of drawback and this would be no exception.

Just because they're not equal to god-class beings in terms of power doesn't mean their abilities doesn't match those of god-class beings. A combination of senjutsu and two Longinus was used to restore Strada to his youth. Would that be even capable of being done by anyone except a god or Longinus possessor? Those abilities work and are effective even against gods. What would be the point of saying they can kill gods?

Again your argument for saying Issei's team outclasses Rias' is just because Issei has one more god-class being than her.


I honestly just don't see Issei winning. It's just a bunch on my part. I can provide my logic but it will only make sense to me and no one else. But It's somewhat for the same reason I don't see either Issei or Vali becoming Maou.

[Crimson_Emperor]

im not shock about his hypothesis lol because he see issei is the main villain

[Lex79]

If Ishibumi wanted to give Rias her big win he wouldn't have her being the responsible for her team loss against Vali. It's as simple as that.

[Lucidrago]

?????? Sees Issei as the main villain? Where did you get that from?

[Crimson_Emperor]

in volume 25 discussion you said its issei fault that rizevim discover the other world and attack it

[Lucidrago]

I just said that Issei was responsible. While we can't blame him for Rizevim's actions, Issei did come in contact with the other world [ExE] which caused Euclid to find out about it and inform Rizevim.

I was using that just to say why Hades believes Issei needs to be eliminated.

Don't mistake me describing a cause-and-effect relationship as me defending Hades' actions or casting Issei as a villain. I just decided to think from a villain's perspective and tried to see things from Hades' perspective for a bit. And thought that he had a point even if I disagree with his actions.

[bodo]

「D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoostD∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost!!!!!!!!」
俺の宝玉から、皿いたこともない新たな音由が力強く叫り評いてい<!
同時に俺の体から未知の力が溢れてくる! 底から生じてくるようだった!
淡い博紫色の粒子が俺たちの周囲に発生して、俺と仲間たちを毅っていく。これは彼女が公園で詠っていたとき に出ていた粒子。

And Ise power up again, D∞DBoost ...

MTL:
"D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoostD∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost D∞DBoost !!!!!!!!"
From my jewel, the new sound that has never been heard is strongly yelling. At the same time, my body is overflowing with unknown power!
It was like coming from the bottom! A pale purple particle is generated around us, and surround me and my companions. This was the particle that appeared when she was singing in the park.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Again using one powerful being to say one team outclasses the other. Where's your logic in that? Suddenly just having one extra god-class being makes one team overwhelmingly stronger than the other. Especially Rias' team which is full of monsters.

Rias' Balor Form allowed her to take on Fenrir. Although he was only at 80% power, Fenrir is still a being in the Top 10 at full power. For Rias to fight on par with Fenrir with just her first time using her Balor Form was impressive.

You say Ddraig and Issei are stronger. But you forgot that Rias' third eye(Gasper) in her Balor Form can basically just timestop anyone by simply looking at them. And she can move through shadows. Even if the timestop only works on Issei and Ddraig for a few seconds, that can easily be enough to hit either of them. You can't just go 'they're more powerful thus they win.' And besides we still don't know the exact conditions of Ddraig appearing. Is there a certain time limit that Ddraig can remain manifested like that? Does Ddraig have to stay within a certain distance of Issei to remain manifested like that? Everything has some sort of drawback and this would be no exception.

Just because they're not equal to god-class beings in terms of power doesn't mean their abilities doesn't match those of god-class beings. A combination of senjutsu and two Longinus was used to restore Strada to his youth. Would that be even capable of being done by anyone except a god or Longinus possessor? Those abilities work and are effective even against gods. What would be the point of saying they can kill gods?

Again your argument for saying Issei's team outclasses Rias' is just because Issei has one more god-class being than her.


I honestly just don't see Issei winning. It's just a bunch on my part. I can provide my logic but it will only make sense to me and no one else. But It's somewhat for the same reason I don't see either Issei or Vali becoming Maou.

Are you serious? Issei's Team heavily outclasses Rias team in power dude. First I will go over your argument about her Balor form.

The only reason Rias was so effective against Fenrir was mainly because of capatability. Fenrir had no means to counteract her abilities because he has no long range abilities and could help. The only thing he had to rely on was his durability and stamina. Now if Rias were to face someone like Apollon who can fight at close range and long range then who would win? Apollon easily. The same applies if she face Issei or Ddraig. They could just as easily break out of Rias time stop and counteract with either aura attacks or fire breath. Even if you don't take Ddraig or Issei into account, you can have Grayfia team up with someone to fight Rias as that would put her at an disadvantage.

As for Rias Longinus users, they haven't done anything to show a means of a threat. Gasper is mainly there just for Rias armor. Lint can rival Ultimate Devil class at most which and Valerie would be hidden away. Granted we haven't seen her BxB yet but even with that I doubt she would play a large role. Recall that Rias has more Longinus users than Vali's team and yet she still lost.

Strada can be occupied by Xenovia which leaves the rest to can fight the others. Rias team can put up a fight at best but in the end there are really outclassed in power. The rules of the rating game would have to factor in if she wants to have a chance.

Issei can deal with Hades after he lose in the top 4. At least in that way, Issei would fulfill the condition of being a Maou candidate. Why not have Rias deal with Hades faction if they stir up trouble again. I'm sure Crom and Strada wouldn't mind and beating Rias would serve as character growth for Issei as his skill as a leader. Your argument about Ravel was solved back in Volume 24 as Ravel already came to terms about taking feelings into consideration.

[Imagine Breaker]

Why do people even think Grayfia can't solo a kid with Longinus buff? Isn't it the reverse, that Rias might even need others' help to match Grayfia?

Or maybe it's just me wanting to see the two onee-sans go against the super meido seriously. Kek.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Imagine Breaker

Why do people even think Grayfia can't solo a kid with Longinus buff? Isn't it the reverse, that Rias might even need others' help to match Grayfia?

Or maybe it's just me wanting to see the two onee-sans go against the super meido seriously. Kek.

Grayfia is strong but she would need help against Rias Balor form. I can see for the sake of plot that Rias will retire Grayfia but it will be no cakewalk.

[Lucidrago]

Heavily outclassed because of one being. That's the logic you're using. They're basically equal in my opinion.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Heavily outclassed because of one being. That's the logic you're using. They're basically equal in my opinion.

May I remind you that it was because of Ddraig that Issei was able to beat Typhon's team since before then, they were heavily outclassed. Ddraig by himself is a huge power boost to any team. And It's not just Ddraig that gives them the advantage but also they have the advantage in number. Issei can afford to make sacrifices but Rias, not so much.

[AP24]

Ise and Vali only need to win two more times to become Maou candidates.

Looks like we'll have a definitive answer on whether or not Crom is stronger than a heavenly dragon.