AnimeSuki Forums

emptyeighty · 2007-09-08, 01:13

Codec does make a difference. There's a huge difference between CPU usage of HD ASP and HD AVC.

Nicholi · 2007-09-08, 17:16

I luled..."mkv'ers blast people that use PCM". Who uses PCM at all with their files nowadays?
/me waves to the idea of saving bitrate whatsoever

It's also funny the idea that MKV is somehow "new" just because it is being used for HD files now. MKV has been around a looooong time. Even used by fansubber's "evul" counterparts, who we shan't name in this hallowed place, for around 4 years or more now. And even back then it was fairly well developed, and the software for it has always been there. They've only added more onto it as the years went on, making it even more awesome. Fear the power as MKV finally comes into its own with the mainstream. Phear o' ignorant ones, and continue to post your randomness. We enjoy lawling.

The format works. Put the same streams into AVI and it won't make a difference. It only means you have a shitty slow computer, not the format's fault.

Rasqual Twilight · 2007-09-12, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chinomi

I despise .mkv's with a passion. Like was previously said, I'm one of those people with a DivX DVD Player so I just pop in a DVD of the fansub, sit back, and relax in a comfy couch or chair. I can't do that with .mkv's.

(emphasis mine)

(About mkv) sore point. No support in hardware players mean less incentive to use the format. Kinda chicken and egg. Weird, since there is no license fee to pay, unlike mp4, and there are players with mp4 container support out there.

emptyeighty · 2007-09-13, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasqual Twilight

(About mkv) sore point. No support in hardware players mean less incentive to use the format.

Avi's multitudious drawbacks have been discussed at length in here, so i'm not going to restate them now. Just that its hackery and non- or halfbaked support for modern features is also a major turnoff.

Quote:

Kinda chicken and egg. Weird, since there is no license fee to pay, unlike mp4, and there are players with mp4 container support out there.

As already stated in this thread Haali is supposedly coding a hw player firmware, which you can be sure will have mkv support.

X10A_Freedom · 2007-09-13, 02:53

Well, it may be simply because people know what .avi files are and are already used to it.

I have one anime set which are in .ogg and .mkv of around 300mb per episode and aside from the ability to remove the subs/change the audio track, I found the video quality around the same as a 200mb .avi file.

If the extra audio was encoded at 192kbps, it would still only take an extra 36mb for 25 minutes, so my experience of .mkv has actually been worse than .avi.

emptyeighty · 2007-09-13, 05:54

CCCP makes playing mkv very easy and sees download numbers in the hundred thousands each month.

Multiple audio or sub tracks are not at all mandatory for mkv and in fact fansubbers don't use them that much. Also comparing filesizes is for video quality is rather moot, it's the bitrate and codec that matters. There avi fails for not properly supporting h.264.

Furthermore avi can't store chapters which is something you don't want to miss once you've gotten used to skipping the nth OP animation in a 26 ep series with a simple keypress.

Nicholi · 2007-09-13, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by X10A_Freedom

Well, it may be simply because people know what .avi files are and are already used to it.

I have one anime set which are in .ogg and .mkv of around 300mb per episode and aside from the ability to remove the subs/change the audio track, I found the video quality around the same as a 200mb .avi file.

If the extra audio was encoded at 192kbps, it would still only take an extra 36mb for 25 minutes, so my experience of .mkv has actually been worse than .avi.

The quality of the streams inside MKV have nothing to do with MKV. I could encode from a source at a really really low bitrate and put the output into AVI and then from the same source encode it with a typical bitrate and put it into MKV

. You would most likely say "wow this is one shitty AVI" because it is bitrate starved, whereas the MKV would be your normal filesize and look great. Does that mean MKV is magically somehow higher quality then AVI?

Different encoders do different things. Of course someone's AVI will not be equivalent to someone elses MKV version. Not to mention people use different sources (see Raws), different filtering settings, different codecs, and different parameters in those codecs. If someone did a real shoddy job on their encode and used MKV, that has nothing to do with MKV. That's the fault of a shoddy encoder :P. The same could be said of horrid AVI encodes, which abound everywhere because it's simple for someone to press a button in VDub. Not the fault of AVI, it's just newbish encoders.

Container has nothing to do with quality of streams, except that MKV allows the choice to use better codecs (thus possibly higher quality).

Potatochobit · 2007-09-15, 04:13

I think h264 in MKV will start to be more common, but it will not replace divx or xvid in avi. They can easily both live in harmony. alot of people will have to upgrade their computers in the next two years, so as they do, older formats will slowly filter out.

Mizuno · 2007-09-15, 20:36

I can say that if suddenly all video files change to H264/X264, then I won't be able to watch anime again. I'm glad that avi are still being distributed.

martino · 2007-09-15, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenta

I can say that if suddenly all video files change to H264/X264, then I won't be able to watch anime again. I'm glad that avi are still being distributed.

Is this a lazy person's comment or someone's who didn't upgrade their PC in 7 years?

Kyuusai · 2007-09-15, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by martino

Is this a lazy person's comment or someone's who didn't upgrade their PC in 7 years?

Not every one can, you know.

Not that I think fansubbers should be using older codecs as their primary release, but to completely drop support for moderately-aged systems would be ludicrous to much of the world that can't afford such luxury.

I didn't expect people to pander to me when I was using a Tandy 1000 in 1997, but it was nice when I wasn't completely cut off.

martino · 2007-09-15, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

Not every one can, you know.

I probably don't know in that case. I don't really see nowadays someone using something older than a P3 or Duron (and mind you, both of those can play 704x400 23.976fps hardsubbed h264 encodes. And I'm not talking about some crazy 3Mbit/s encodes. Softsubs sure become an issue here, but mplayer/libass are a very good solution).

I can see 720p h264 encodes being a problem (damn, sometimes even I had to download the XviD versions for that), but then again mplayer did do the trick in most cases. But then most groups which do such releases provide an SD counterpart (be it XviD or h264 again)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

Not that I think fansubbers should be using older codecs as their primary release, but to completely drop support for moderately-aged systems would be ludicrous to much of the world that can't afford such luxury.

OK, if it comes to the third-world countries; Surely. However it's not like those are going to have Internet connections in the first place (or any means of getting their hands on such entertainment). Second and first is something different (in fact from some of my personal experience the ones from the latter mentioned part quite often have more powerful systems than the ones from the other part). It's not really a luxury from my point of view. Computer parts have become so cheap and available nowadays that you could use them as toilet paper (and this is coming from a student with no stable means of income)...

emptyeighty · 2007-09-16, 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by martino

Is this a lazy person's comment or someone's who didn't upgrade their PC in 7 years?

My 7 year old PC plays h264 perfectly fine, so probably lazy. I wonder if he even tried more than throw random codecs at it.

Milvus · 2007-09-16, 03:59

And I see a lot of other problems for computers with so old they can't play SD H.264. Old version of Windows and Mac OS X will not be supported by Microsoft and Apple, so you can't have a secured and up to date system. Same with a lot of other software (Office...). Old computers will also not be able to visit average website with all this flash and ajax madness. Sure, you can always use anti-bloatwares and linux with old computers. But people knowing and willing to do this usually also know ways to upgrade at the lower cost.

Even if you think you have limited needs and you're computer is good enough, there is always a day you'll really need to upgrade. It can be because you have new needs, or worse, just to continue doing the same thing ! It's like that for years and i think it will continue to be like that, even if the power-race has slowed down. XviD->H.264 transition is only one small reason in the vast pool of good and bad reasons that will force you to upgrade, willing or not.

2007-09-15, 20:36	Link #109
Mizuno Undefined Join Date: May 2004 Location: With the gods Age: 40	I can say that if suddenly all video files change to H264/X264, then I won't be able to watch anime again. I'm glad that avi are still being distributed. __________________ My forum

2007-09-08, 01:13	Link #101
emptyeighty Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	Codec does make a difference. There's a huge difference between CPU usage of HD ASP and HD AVC.

2007-09-08, 17:16	Link #102
Nicholi King of Hosers Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 41	I luled..."mkv'ers blast people that use PCM". Who uses PCM at all with their files nowadays? /me waves to the idea of saving bitrate whatsoever It's also funny the idea that MKV is somehow "new" just because it is being used for HD files now. MKV has been around a looooong time. Even used by fansubber's "evul" counterparts, who we shan't name in this hallowed place, for around 4 years or more now. And even back then it was fairly well developed, and the software for it has always been there. They've only added more onto it as the years went on, making it even more awesome. Fear the power as MKV finally comes into its own with the mainstream. Phear o' ignorant ones, and continue to post your randomness. We enjoy lawling. The format works. Put the same streams into AVI and it won't make a difference. It only means you have a shitty slow computer, not the format's fault.

2007-09-13, 02:53	Link #105
X10A_Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Neo-Venezia...I wish!	Well, it may be simply because people know what .avi files are and are already used to it. I have one anime set which are in .ogg and .mkv of around 300mb per episode and aside from the ability to remove the subs/change the audio track, I found the video quality around the same as a 200mb .avi file. If the extra audio was encoded at 192kbps, it would still only take an extra 36mb for 25 minutes, so my experience of .mkv has actually been worse than .avi.

2007-09-13, 05:54	Link #106
emptyeighty Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	CCCP makes playing mkv very easy and sees download numbers in the hundred thousands each month. Multiple audio or sub tracks are not at all mandatory for mkv and in fact fansubbers don't use them that much. Also comparing filesizes is for video quality is rather moot, it's the bitrate and codec that matters. There avi fails for not properly supporting h.264. Furthermore avi can't store chapters which is something you don't want to miss once you've gotten used to skipping the nth OP animation in a 26 ep series with a simple keypress.

2007-09-15, 04:13	Link #108
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	I think h264 in MKV will start to be more common, but it will not replace divx or xvid in avi. They can easily both live in harmony. alot of people will have to upgrade their computers in the next two years, so as they do, older formats will slowly filter out.

2007-09-16, 03:59	Link #114
Milvus Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Paris (France) Age: 42	And I see a lot of other problems for computers with so old they can't play SD H.264. Old version of Windows and Mac OS X will not be supported by Microsoft and Apple, so you can't have a secured and up to date system. Same with a lot of other software (Office...). Old computers will also not be able to visit average website with all this flash and ajax madness. Sure, you can always use anti-bloatwares and linux with old computers. But people knowing and willing to do this usually also know ways to upgrade at the lower cost. Even if you think you have limited needs and you're computer is good enough, there is always a day you'll really need to upgrade. It can be because you have new needs, or worse, just to continue doing the same thing ! It's like that for years and i think it will continue to be like that, even if the power-race has slowed down. XviD->H.264 transition is only one small reason in the vast pool of good and bad reasons that will force you to upgrade, willing or not.