(L+CR) Space Battleship Yamato 2199 (movie & TV)

[Ithekro]

Okay, searching the Internet I found this first impression on Yamato 2199, and I wonder if that is a common thing, or if this is just some weird notion. I can't get this though because I've seen the original for decades now, so I know what is happening at that point, and actually like how they changed it this time around, but just read this:

Snowman Posted Yesterday, 09:21 PM

I've been really looking forward to seeing Yamato 2199 but when I finally sat down to watch the first episode, I was pretty underwhelmed. There's a hilariously bad vadernooo.jpg moment early on, then a little later, a character nobly sacrifices himself to save his comrades, except his comrades don't appear to be in any immediate danger whatsoever, thus undermining a sizable chunk of the episode. I might try one more episode to see if it improves at all....

source: http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php...ime/?p=9208380


The only complaint I see over and over again about the CGI. Specifically the lack of mass of the ships. Probably the one major high speed turn that Kirishima does to fire her bow missiles and guns. The CGI is refered to as awful due to that sort of thing as most are use to capital ships moving like massive vessels (Battlestar Galactica is usually brought up) that turn slowly and ponderously. The complaint being that the ships turn too fast and precisely. More like the Babylon 5 "Starfury" fighters or small ships than what one would think of as a capital ship. (Oddly enough, the White Star is much larger than the Kirishima)

[Darthtabby]

I can kind of see where the guy is coming in that more could have been done to give the impression that the Kirishima was actually in danger and the Yukikaze's sacrifice was necessary (maybe they could have shown some Gamilas destroyers in hot pursuit or something) but I didn't find it detracted from the story very much. I generally liked the episode enough to be willing to forgive some nitpicks here and there though (in particular a couple of aerospace craft seemed to go kaput for little apparent reason).

Anyhow, I'd heard good things about this series and found it to be generally pretty good despite some things that bugged me. Good enough that I ended up deciding to watch the second episode when my plans for watching some other things on the evening I watched the first episode fell through. And then I ended up watching all fourteen of the currently subbed episodes in the space of a few days.

It's kind of too bad this series isn't getting more weekly sub releases. It might help bring some attention from the people on this forum.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The only complaint I see over and over again about the CGI. Specifically the lack of mass of the ships.

I noticed that too, but the maneuvers of the vessels have never been part of the combat in this show thus far so I never paid attention to it. It would be an issue if they showed the ships moving around tactically and trying to get into proper attack positions, but that's not how they do it here. There's really no reason to critique that as an issue with the show (beyond visually, and it is slightly distracting that they move so fast) when it's not important.

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

I can kind of see where the guy is coming in that more could have been done to give the impression that the Kirishima was actually in danger and the Yukikaze's sacrifice was necessary (maybe they could have shown some Gamilas destroyers in hot pursuit or something) but I didn't find it detracted from the story very much. I generally liked the episode enough to be willing to forgive some nitpicks here and there though (in particular a couple of aerospace craft seemed to go kaput for little apparent reason).

Again I noticed this issue with the beginning. I know that they had intended for them to be trying to escape the major conflict (and I see no reason for them to have not pursued the remaining two ships), but not having any enemy presence during that segment was silly. Even a quick little, "pursue the fleeing ships!" line would have sufficed there.

I actually did a mid-episode rant the second time one of the fighters spontaneously combusted. For them making such a big deal about losing their "precious fighters" they sure as hell don't maintain (or build) them very well at all.

Fortunately all of my complaints about this series are really minor things. Stuff that's tends to be less vital or intended to be tiny little plot devices. I'd struggle to find any really major complaints that have a solid foundation.

[Darthtabby]

To be fair their have been a lot of historical fighter aircraft that have been limited by what their engines were capable of handling. The F-14A Tomcat was a good example, one pilot reportedly stated that "Any aggressive move you wanted to make, you had to worry about how the engines would like it -- like you had to ask their permission." (Quote is from this page.) And who is going to fly an aircraft more aggressively than a fighter pilot in the heat of combat?

That being said, the engine problems in this series often seem to happen out of nowhere when its convenient for storytelling purposes. :lol:

[macdawson]

As for the Cosmo Zero that goes kapput, it does so because it was being repaired When Kodai and Shima took it. That's why the guns were empty and they got system errors. Kato tries to warn them But they'ré already speading away.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by macdawson

As for the Cosmo Zero that goes kapput, it does so because it was being repaired When Kodai and Shima took it. That's why the guns were empty and they got system errors. Kato tries to warn them But they'ré already speading away.

Touche, but as Tabby says it's done more as a plot device than to exhibit design flaws. Yes it made sense on Earth, but with Asuka even though it kind of made sense it was still a bit silly for her craft to spontaneously ignite in space (which is the one place I would honestly not expect things to just catch on fire).

We're already up to 14 and I see no chance of fighter craft failing at random for any reason but to guide characters in the foreseeable future. It works, but it's a bit silly.

[August138]

The reason why the whole Cosmo Zero incident happens at the end of the first episode is because it's from the original series — and it's a plot device that moves the two main characters to the site of the camouflaged Yamato, to match the iconic and memorable climax of the 1974 episode. As for the dog fight between Melda and Yamamoto; Yamamoto pushed the Cosmo Falcon beyond it's limits — it wasn't her plane to begin with (she pilots the Cosmo Zero Alpha 2), she "borrowed" it — and blew out her engine. These things happen in real life, too. Have any of you ever been to an airshow? :P

[Ithekro]

Things burning in space is as a thing for Yamato. It could almost be the trope namer of such a thing if they didn't do it for every space serial from the 1930s because they had no clue what space was like.

A typical major battle for Yamato in the old series resulted in Yamato catching fire somewhere near the aft turrets and have flame and smoke trailing the ship for several minutes while stuff was going on. It was just a thing one accepted after a while. The new show still has the ship trail smoke.

As for the fighters, the Cosmo Zero was the prototype for the two seater fighter (the two they have on Yamato are single seat fighters), and was not quite working yet as it turned out. The Comso Falcon is slightly older, but still fairly new to carrier ops, and it is entirely possible that Akira pulled the thing into some manuever it wasn't designed to handle (because some planes can't do certain things without stressing it beyond specs.)

What I'd like to know is who's fighter that was. Are their enough pilots for all the fighers? They have 36 Cosmo Falcons, but only 32 were built and flyable. They lost one with its pilot, so they are down one pilot which by Kato's words are much more valuable than the planes are. We've only seen about ten flying at once. I've not paused the video to count how many pilots they have though. Plus they don't seem to have had pilots assigned to the Cosmo Zeros, which I find odd. Though there are only two of those. Supposedly marked as squadron leader fighters since they have a barrier system and all that. Though we've not seen that system used yet.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Things burning in space is as a thing for Yamato. It could almost be the trope namer of such a thing if they didn't do it for every space serial from the 1930s because they had no clue what space was.

I was talking about its spontaneous combustion, not the mysterious fire in space effects. That doesn't bother me.

What I'd like to know is who's fighter that was. Are their enough pilots for all the fighers? They have 36 Cosmo Falcons, but only 32 were built and flyable. They lost one with its pilot, so they are down one pilot which by Kato's words are much more valuable than the planes are. We've only seen about ten flying at once. I've not paused the video to count how many pilots they have though. Plus they don't seem to have had pilots assigned to the Cosmo Zeros, which I find odd. Though there are only two of those. Supposedly marked as squadron leader fighters since they have a barrier system and all that. Though we've not seen that system used yet.

This actually reminds me of something I noticed several times that bothered me. People are shown dying on the Yamato in various ways (including drowning, in a Space Opera of all things which I have to admit made me laugh a bit ), but it never really shows. Maybe that's where your mysterious pilots have gone eh?

[August138]

Originally Posted by Traece

This actually reminds me of something I noticed several times that bothered me. People are shown dying on the Yamato in various ways (including drowning, in a Space Opera of all things which I have to admit made me laugh a bit ), but it never really shows.

How is that at all funny? And how does such a thing even "bother you"?

As for Yamamoto's borrowed fighter — engines blow up. In real life. Why is that not acceptable to you?

[Ithekro]

They could have been killed on Yamato or those two fighters were assigned to some of the officers that died before Yamato launched. I was going to say there would have been assigned to Mamoru Kodia and Kato, but I can't say for sure. What Susumu can fly the prototype right out the hanger, he didn't know what it was. One would guess that UN fighter designs have somewhat standarized controls as we know he was qualified to fly the Type 100 and must have had some fighter training to not only catch that Gamilas recon fighter, but also to be assigned to be the ship's Tactical Officer and be allowed to take out one of the ship's Cosmo Zeros. Yamamoto said she'd been training, but was rejected for personal reason, not anything against her performance. We don't know what she was training on, but since the Cosmo Falcon seems to be the main UN fighter, it was probably that. Unless somehow they've been training new pilots for what they thought was going to be their future Cosmo Zero squadrons.

Another thing to speculate on. Was the Cosmo Zero made specifically for Yamato, or had the UN been attempting to build some other kind of carrier during the war? The Cosmo Falcons were modified for carrier Ops because the Cosmo Zero had production problems. But aside from Yamato, what was the purpose of having Carrier capable fighters for the UN? Have one or two docked in Kirishima or the cruisers?

[Traece]

Originally Posted by August138

How is that at all funny? And how does such a thing even "bother you"?

It bothered me because those deaths have yet to be reflected in any way in the series, either as a lack of personnel or personally for the crew. There's yet to be a scene like: "Things haven't been the same since X drowned on our spaceship, in this space opera."

Which brings me to the funny part. I found it humorous because he ironically was killed by water, in space. I'm not saying the water part doesn't make sense, but you don't really start watching a space opera and expect to see that. It's not that the death was funny, the circumstances were ironic.

[August138]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Yamamoto said she'd been training, but was rejected for personal reason, not anything against her performance. We don't know what she was training on, but since the Cosmo Falcon seems to be the main UN fighter, it was probably that. Unless somehow they've been training new pilots for what they thought was going to be their future Cosmo Zero squadrons.

Yamamoto was vetoed from joining the fighter wing aboard the Yamato by the insistence of the Wing Leader, Saburo Kato — who was close friends with her brother, who was also a fighter pilot — who doesn't want to see her throw her life away just for revenge.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Another thing to speculate on. Was the Cosmo Zero made specifically for Yamato?

The Zeroes were specific to the Yamato, since their are designed to fit in her hangers — even when the Yamato was originally planned to serve as an "ark" as part of the Izumo Plan, she still needed air support.

Originally Posted by Traece

It bothered me because those deaths have yet to be reflected in any way in the series, either as a lack of personnel or personally for the crew. There's yet to be a scene like: "Things haven't been the same since X drowned on our spaceship, in this space opera."

There were 999 crewmen aboard the Yamato when she launched. We don't have time to break down and have an EVA moment every time that happens — just like real life, not everyone is connected those who die. Plus, we don't know if those men died — we don't see any bodies or reports of their deaths. Meanwhile, when Sugiyama dies during Operation M2, Kato gets hella pissed. Traditionally, YAMATO does not shy away from mourning over character's deaths — in fact, it was the show that started the "not who's going to die, but who's going to survive" school.

Originally Posted by Traece

Which brings me to the funny part. I found it humorous because he ironically was killed by water, in space. I'm not saying the water part doesn't make sense, but you don't really start watching a space opera and expect to see that. It's not that the death was funny, the circumstances were ironic.

Irony is overrated. Or in the words of the great William Shatner from AIRPLANE II: THE SEQUEL, "Irony can be pretty ironic. Sometimes."

There are plenty of examples of people drowning in spaceships in film and literature. Seek them out... if you dare!

Speaking of irony; everyone who has been with us since Page 1, now that the show is airing on television in Japan, get ready for a flood of fun (pun intended)!

[Ithekro]

Skane is still waiting for a scene of the updated Okita to replace his Avatar.

[macdawson]

August, the irony in that last post is that you missnamed the only guy who died and whose name we know. HE WAS SUGIYAMA, DAMN IT!!! XD

And "flood of fun"??? Really?! XD It might begin as fun but after we get a few pages of futile debates i think it'll get old really fast and turn into annoying. I'm thinking of getting an image of Picard facepalming with "too stupid to deserve an answer" writen on it. I think i'd get a lot of use for it.

As for drowning in space, they were sunk on an ocean at the time. The chances of death by drowning increase tremendously when submerged in water, or at least só i've heard. But to be fair, Enomoto-san does ask "who wants to drown in a spaceship? Not me!"

[August138]

Luis: Fixed. I have an old friend named Nobuhiko Sugimoto, so I inadvertently typed his surname instead... D'oh! :P

[Ithekro]

Of course I want the flood. I await for Yamato to be Victorious on all Fronts.

[Darthtabby]

As a note, when I referred to "a couple aerospace craft going kaput for little apparent reason" I was also referencing the Iscandar ship in Episode 1 as well.

On another note, are we going to just be discussing everything that's been subtitled so far without restriction, or are we going to concentrate on specific episodes as they're airing? Ideally I'd like to see a separate thread for discussions of the TV episodes as they're airing (there are two separate discussion threads for Red Data Girl since the online stream is two episodes ahead of the TV broadcast) while this thread can be used to discuss all the episodes so far regardless of whether they've aired on TV or not, but I'm not sure if the mods/admins would go for that.

[Ithekro]

Well if the travel time from Neptune to Mars is to be believed, the Iscandarian ship is travelling in realspace at about 25 times the speed of light to make that distance in 10 minutes.

[macdawson]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well if the travel time from Neptune to Mars is to be believed, the Iscandarian ship is travelling in realspace at about 25 times the speed of light to make that distance in 10 minutes.

That's space opera magic, like shots of the solar system where you see all the planets in one shot. It's a visual thing. Actually the ship is probably using some FTL tech but flying through normal space, much like the ships in Star Trek, while warp and Geschtam use alternate dimension ship displacement to instantly jump from point A to point B. At least that's how i look at it.