AnoHana - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

A speculation I have pertaining to Tsuruko...

Spoiler for Major Tsuruko speculation:

I wonder if Tsuruko (kid) ended up getting into a scuffle with Menma? A scuffle that ultimately resulted in Menma falling off of that cliff and dying?

I don't think Tsuruko, or anybody else, deliberately pushed Menma off of the cliff - I think that's a bit darker than what Okada would aim for here - but I have to wonder if kid Tsuruko was jealous of Yukiatsu's feelings for Menma, and ended up getting into an ultimately disastrous fight with Menma over it.

That could help explain some of Tsuruko's actions and statements.

She might be wearing that old hairpin as a way to atone for how her actions helped caused Menma's death. Her suggestion that Menma's ghost might actually be there to attack them makes a bit more sense if Tsuruko feels that there's a good reason that Menma would want to attack her.

Just an idea I had that I felt might be worth sharing.

Interesting... if something like that did indeed happen, I'd be curious to see what the fandom's reaction will be. Will people sympathize with Tsuruko, or will she be reviled and thought of as a total bitch (Not saying that thinking that way would be rational, but that kind of plot development could definitely spark a not-completely-rational backlash against her nonetheless like with Sekai from School Days, Mitsuki from Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien, etc)? That kind of twist would probably turn her into one of the show's more iconic characters, at any rate.

[deadite]

I don't think the ending will be so simple. The fireworks probably isn't Menma's wish but it will become symbolic in some way. There is still the unresolved Touko-Menma discussion which probably was the reason Menma wanted to meet with everyone.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Soconfused

I also don't think Tsuroko had anything to do with Menma's death. That would be completely out of nowhere and would make Tsuroko look really shitty.

I don't think it would be completely out of nowhere. It would help explain why Tsuruko was afraid that Ghost Menma might be out to attack them.

Now, it's possible that Okada gave Tsuruko that line simply to add some diversity of character viewpoints on Ghost Menma being there, and if so, that's fine. Still, Tsuruko is an interesting choice of a character to deliver that line if this is all it is about.

Right now, we have a *very* good idea of how Menma's death affected Jinta, Yukiatsu, and Anaru. That's been developed well.

By comparison, the way Menma's death impacted Tsuruko and Poppo has not been as well-explored. Now, in Poppo's case, he's a bit of a "fifth wheel" anyway. He's the only core cast member in this show not involved in the central romantic conflicts.

But Tusruko is the character that's been left the most understated and the most unexplored, in my view. So, part of me expects to see Tsuruko, and how Menma's death impacted her directly, explored a bit more deeply. Maybe that won't reveal anything particularly dramatic, but maybe it will.

I don't particularly care either way, except that I would like to see Tsuruko's character explored a bit more deeply in any event.

And again, theres been nothing to even suggest this, Menma has barely even acknowledged Tsuroko the entire series, which would be weird if she somehow caused her death.

Menma is clearly suffering from a bit of a memory block. How else can you explain her not even remembering what her wish was?

So it's possible that Tsuruko played a role in Menma's death, but Menma doesn't remember it.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Honestly, I hope not.

*Snip for space*

I largely agree with you here, but Menma's wish still needs to be addressed, and I'll be disappointed if it's just hand-waved.

Perhaps Menma's wish is for her friends to forgive themselves for how she died (which would be fitting given that tense sense between Menma's mom and Menma's surviving friends), and perhaps such a wish carries a bit more weight if, in fact, her friends did play a bit of an unintentional role in her death...

[Kopi]

Originally Posted by deadite

Right now, the knowledge of Menma being real is tearing them apart even more. Jinta is now comfortable about openly communicating with Menma without realizing the harm he is causing to he others.

I was rather annoyed with Jintan on this. The way he seems really happy (not that he is without worry about Menma leaving) with this and calling to Menma affectionately while in fact, everyone was actually either troubled, suffering and frustrated with the revelation of Menma. Jintan open your eyes and look around you!

[CWW]

Based on this episode and next week's preview, I sense a train wreck is incoming. That firework platform is pretty darn high. D:

Not to mention Tsuruko hinting that something more happened on that faithful day. I was hoping Menma would recollect her memories by the river bank, but it seems the writer is resolute on waiting for one of the eyewitnesses to spill out The Reveal.

One thing's for certain: Naruko's love will remain unrequited while Menma exists. If Naruko and Yukiatsu get together I will rage so hard.

[Iron Monkey]

My theory is that Jintan is actually dying (or is going to die somehow) and Menma's "mission" (or wish) is to stop this event from happening. The last episode will have Menma save Jintan, and she will disappear after that.

[Flower]

8/10 vote for this episode from me.

Another wonderful and moving episode ... and Tsuruko's actions do seem a but suspicious - but I am going to hold off on speculation (this time!) and wait for next week's ep to get more info....

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Try 11 episodes - not 12!

To be clear - I don't expect Jinta to literally kill himself, even if the death theory is correct (and I am by no means convinced). I would say, rather, that if it does happen it would be in line with the earlier foreshadowings of an illness - the nosebleeds, the fainting, etc. Maybe with an implication that his body has kind of given up on this life.

Of course, the observation that Jintan will be working on the bridge is a good one - and highly unlikely to be coincidental.

For real? I see a proper ending even less now -_-

[foxnaught]

Originally Posted by charizardpal

^Maybe because Menma just needs to have an association with the thing, such as the fact Menma's mother made muffins in the past.

What I don't get is what happens to shrimp after Menma eats them.

They start to haunt the Jintan of the shrimp world?

Originally Posted by Ziziphus

Great episode! But why do I feel that things are getting more complicated instead of resolved?

I so hope they won't rush the ending.

I'm torn. I also don't want a rushed ending, but I now want to see some exploration of the romances that popped up in this episode

Originally Posted by Zeroryoko1974

... or go the yaoi route with Popo. Great episode.

Judging by Popo's fetish, he'll have a tough time getting any action

[cyth]

After last week's episode I wrote that the solution to all problems would be Jintan killing himself. Already, when he fell down that cliff I was certain that that was his demise. It was probably not, but my reasoning is thus following:

1. While Jintan supposedly starts off as the fuckup of the group, he doesn't give off that vibe at all. Yukiatsu, Anaru and Poppo beat him in this department.

2. AnoHana isn't shy to show that her characters are selfish human beings, in particular Yukiatsu, Anaru, and now Tsuruko. Menma may be the same as the rest.

3. Okada Mari writes for otaku, and otaku want shocking things to happen. I can see this series being written into history books if it executes Jintan's death in some kind of politically incorrect way. It would be, in my estimates, the biggest thing to happen in anime since Evangelion, and I'm getting chills just thinking about it.

Putting all three points together, I think that Menma isn't any different from the rest of the group. She's known to hide her true feelings and her childish naivete may help shield herself from her real wishes, but I honestly think that her wish is to be with Jintan. Jintan obviously still wants to be with her. I think the worldview of the series is fairly grounded in reality, and while one could argue it's not, since Menma is a ghost and all, I think the writers are conscious of our inability to stretch the suspense of disbelief so much that we would accept Menma's revival. Reincarnation is one possible scenario, but I feel like it's been done to death in anime. It would come off even more shocking if Menma were to be directly involved in Jintan's death, but he is the biggest fuckup of the group and he hasn't really proven that to us at all. So one could say that Menma's secret wish is for Jintan to kill himself.

After this episode, I'm finally on the fanboy wagon.

[LittleLamb]

Spoiler for Anohana Episode 9 (Just in case you haven't seen it yet):

Oh My....
I almost cried when I watched this episode :'( Everyone had moment and Poor Tsuruko and Poppo had a little moment when he was talking to Menma... Aaaah! Soooo... GOOD.
Also, Yukiatsu and Anaru; smart move with the tears thing.

I laughed, when Jinta had trouble answering Yukiatsu's question bout Menma being beautiful and such. Also, the ending was a real eye opener. So Jinta really does have feelings for Menma. Ofc it was obvious; but we're able to see him express it, ONLY to take it back.

[miketyson]

I have another question near the end.

Spoiler for minor question:

The big carp: it's some kind of a ghost, right? It seems like we get a good look at it but it's just a shadow; when it comes to the surface there's nothing there.

Am I missing something? Miss-seeing it?

cyth: it's interesting how neatly the romance issues tie up without a living Jinta in the picture: Yukiatsu and Anjou, Poppo and Tsuruko, Jinta and Menma. Too bad for Jinta's dad, but he's a pretty chill guy.

Spoiler for shocking speculation:

It might be fun to sketch up maximally shocking endings, though this isn't really the thread to do it in.

Suppose Jinta dies when he goes in the water, but doesn't figure it out for awhile. When he does find out he kills ghost-Menma in fury. Shocking!

Suppose Tsuruko really did kill Menma -- pushed her down the hill or something -- and it was just to get to Yukiatsu. She kills Jinta by the river, too, and he's dead dead -- no ghost -- leaving it up to Menma to convince the other 3 surviving peace busters Tsuruko is a killer. Shocking!

Etc...

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Iron Monkey

My theory is that Jintan is actually dying (or is going to die somehow) and Menma's "mission" (or wish) is to stop this event from happening. The last episode will have Menma save Jintan, and she will disappear after that.

I don't think this will happen. The story to me seems to be about being able to move on with your life from tragedy. Jinta dying would put a massive set back on this, making the pain on everyone else even greater, particularly Anaru.

Jinta is going to come to terms with everything in the last episode, and that'll lead to Menma finally passing on.

Tsuruko needs to drop her passive-aggressive personality if she wants to get through to Yukiatsu. Of course I don't see Anaru dating him, seeing as she doesn't see him in that light, and Yukiatsu himself is still trying to find his way through all this. His proposal to Anaru is more than likely to be an attempt to try move on from the past.

[ThereminVox]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I don't think this will happen. The story to me seems to be about being able to move on with your life from tragedy. Jinta dying would put a massive set back on this, making the pain on everyone else even greater, particularly Anaru.

I agree. From the start, the series presented the problem as Menma's death causing a group of young lives to go either into various states of arrested development, or otherwise careening off-course. If the theme of eternal love were more central, maybe it would be more suitable.

What troubles me isn't that I think Jintan's death would be appropriate, but rather that even if it weren't, it could still work given the pieces of the puzzle we have. Enzo already touched on the clear symbolism of the river scene, and that fits. Jintan's nosebleeds are probably not a flag, but they still could end up working as one in hindsight. It might even explain why he can see her, since we seemed to witness Menma watching a ghostly fish Jintan never saw.

Regardless, I hope that's not what they do, not because I don't think they could pull it off, but because I think the story of processing the deep wound of grief with the help of one's friends is a more compelling, more human story.

[miketyson]

On a more serious note: Jinta doesn't seem to be developing in a positive way in this episode, at least not compared to anyone else. Or, at least, that's my thoughts: he's getting a little too comfortable around Menma, and he's more distant from everyone else than he had been before the visit to Menma's mom split the group for awhile.

So Jinta, himself, might be a bit happier and more determined these days, but it's not really in a healthy, "getting over the past" way. Am I misinterpreting this episode?

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by miketyson

On a more serious note: Jinta doesn't seem to be developing in a positive way in this episode, at least not compared to anyone else. Or, at least, that's my thoughts: he's getting a little too comfortable around Menma, and he's more distant from everyone else than he had been before the visit to Menma's mom split the group for awhile.

So Jinta, himself, might be a bit happier and more determined these days, but it's not really in a healthy, "getting over the past" way. Am I misinterpreting this episode?

No, you're right. From my perspective, Jinta is actually coming to terms with his feelings for her. He's been denying himself of it for a long time. Now that he's coming to realization and acceptance, his next step is learning to let go.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by cyth

After last week's episode I wrote that the solution to all problems would be Jintan killing himself. Already, when he fell down that cliff I was certain that that was his demise. It was probably not, but my reasoning is thus following:

1. While Jintan supposedly starts off as the fuckup of the group, he doesn't give off that vibe at all. Yukiatsu, Anaru and Poppo beat him in this department.

2. AnoHana isn't shy to show that her characters are selfish human beings, in particular Yukiatsu, Anaru, and now Tsuruko. Menma may be the same as the rest.

3. Okada Mari writes for otaku, and otaku want shocking things to happen. I can see this series being written into history books if it executes Jintan's death in some kind of politically incorrect way. It would be, in my estimates, the biggest thing to happen in anime since Evangelion, and I'm getting chills just thinking about it.

Putting all three points together, I think that Menma isn't any different from the rest of the group. She's known to hide her true feelings and her childish naivete may help shield herself from her real wishes, but I honestly think that her wish is to be with Jintan. Jintan obviously still wants to be with her. I think the worldview of the series is fairly grounded in reality, and while one could argue it's not, since Menma is a ghost and all, I think the writers are conscious of our inability to stretch the suspense of disbelief so much that we would accept Menma's revival. Reincarnation is one possible scenario, but I feel like it's been done to death in anime. It would come off even more shocking if Menma were to be directly involved in Jintan's death, but he is the biggest fuckup of the group and he hasn't really proven that to us at all. So one could say that Menma's secret wish is for Jintan to kill himself.

The contents of this post feel wrong and scary in so many ways. Until I read it I was under the impression that we would almost definitely get a standard ending with everyone getting over Menma and Menma herself disappearing, with Jintan's current development just being a major obstacle towards that goal. I never even considered the series ending as nasty as you're suggesting. What's even scarier is that Okada Mari might be good enough to pull off such a twist. But so far I haven't seen a hint of evil intent in Menma's words and actions.

[icatero]

I don't see why some people are accusing Yukiatsu of trying to one-up Jinta by going out with Anaru. I agree with those who say he's just trying to move on, and is hoping he and Anaru will hep each other out. It might not be real love, but it's definitely healthier than pining after Menma (a dead girl) and Jinta (who is in love with a ghost only he can see).

<strike>But even healthier? Going out with someone who's always been there for you.</strike> I hope Yukiatsu notices Tsuruko soon. Maybe her witnessing YukiatsuAnaru will be enough to set her off? I can't really imagine her doing anything, though. She's been by Yukiatsu's side for years and never said a word.

[CWW]

Really, no one came out of this reveal particularly well, not even Menma. I wouldn't be surprised if it will cause ripples of inner desires, selfish behaviour and eventually a trip to the psychiatric house within the group, complete with straitjackets. It remains to be seen if death will be a major theme in the last two episodes, but the signs are there.

Someone hold me.

[FlareKnight]

This was an interesting episode just to see everyone dealing with things. Wonder what Poppo really wanted to ask Menma. Did he just want to know what exactly happened that caused her death? Or was it more about knowing if she blamed him (since it seems like everyone has some self blame going on here).

Tsuruko also has had some curious responses. Maybe just because that's the way she is, but seemed to be pretty pessimistic about how Menma felt about them. Things like the reason she can't move on is because she hasn't forgiven them. Wonder what she thinks Menma shouldn't be able to forgive her for? Do like the theory that she might have had something more direct to do with what happened. If she saw the guy she liked getting shot down like that....

Anaru is having a tough time dealing with things too. Menma being there is one thing, but also her feelings towards Jintan are difficult. Right now feeling that same that she can't compete with Menma and is avoiding things. Going back home was just exchanging avoiding her mother to avoiding Jintan. Things just can't be left hanging after what happened in the earlier episode. Certainly isn't going to be able to compete if she keeps it inside until she has to run off and cry somewhere.

Yukiatsu...is well Yukiatsu. Guy has a lot of rage built up in there. Can't help but think a good deal about the motivation to help Menma move on is to just rip her away from Jintan. If he could see her he probably would be just as reluctant to have her move on as anyone. Still will need to work things out eventually.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

No, you're right. From my perspective, Jinta is actually coming to terms with his feelings for her. He's been denying himself of it for a long time. Now that he's coming to realization and acceptance, his next step is learning to let go.

Yeah there's no way he could let her go or anything like that until he first acknowledged his feelings for her. First he has to go through things like this where he really doesn't want her to move on and leave. Maybe now he can start working on letting her move on.

Originally Posted by icatero

I don't see why some people are accusing Yukiatsu of trying to one-up Jinta by going out with Anaru. I agree with those who say he's just trying to move on, and is hoping he and Anaru will hep each other out. It might not be real love, but it's definitely healthier than pining after Menma (a dead girl) and Jinta (who is in love with a ghost only he can see).

<strike>But even healthier? Going out with someone who's always been there for you.</strike> I hope Yukiatsu notices Tsuruko soon. Maybe her witnessing YukiatsuAnaru will be enough to set her off? I can't really imagine her doing anything, though. She's been by Yukiatsu's side for years and never said a word.

I think it's understandable for some to view Yukiatsu that way. One of the most powerful feelings for him in this series has been his disdain/jealousy/anger towards Jintan. As much as directing things towards Anaru might be an attempt to move on it could be equally motivated by an attempt to attack Jintan. Kind of a "hey I've got a living girlfriend here that used to like you." Just not sure I can completely discount his actions having a negative Jintan side to them.