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Old 2019-01-25, 16:08   Link #61
roronoa20
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Originally Posted by GodSoul View Post
"Red Punishment" is similar to White Stallion but is much more powerful and with a much wider range and consumes a huge amount of power, but using it in a direct attack against a god or campione does not have much effect since it is expected that they have managed to escape, and similarly it can turn your user into ashes. To use in an efficient way you have to let the opponent cornered as Godou did with Melqart, and also with Voban, if Godou had used White Stallion in Voban in a direct attack, they were in Netherworld, and Voban was in the form "Otherland's Dragon" that had the power to move freely through Netherworld, he could have escaped the attack without difficulty, but godou cornered him with distractions and caught him in surprise in the same way he did with Melqart. (fonte:Shiniki no campioness)

"Singing Spellbook" was no longer used by Voban after he obtained from Osiris "Undead Servant", he only used again after resurrecting with some lost authority, "Undead Servant" can be one of them.
In the end, everything boils down to whomever choose the best move at that very moment. Voban made a mistake and died. Man, this show how much of a savvy Godou is.

I have a small question here. Which Voban do you think are the strongest? Campione!Voban or CampionessVoban.

PS. you should merge this post with the previous one.
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Old 2019-01-25, 16:35   Link #62
GodSoul
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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
In the end, everything boils down to whomever choose the best move at that very moment. Voban made a mistake and died. Man, this show how much of a savvy Godou is.

I have a small question here. Which Voban do you think are the strongest? Campione!Voban or CampionessVoban.

PS. you should merge this post with the previous one.
The Voban of SNC seems stronger because it uses more destructive authorities more frequently than Voban Campione!

More and I must remember that with the exception of Fenrir Skull, he has all the authorities that Voban SNC, and his magical power and greater than the Voban SNC since that lost much power when it resurrected younger.

The Voban of Campione and more tactical, the Voban of SNC and more berserker.
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Old 2019-01-25, 16:50   Link #63
roronoa20
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The Voban of SNC seems stronger because it uses more destructive authorities more frequently than Voban Campione!

More and I must remember that with the exception of Fenrir Skull, he has all the authorities that Voban SNC, and his magical power and greater than the Voban SNC since that lost much power when it resurrected younger.

The Voban of Campione and more tactical, the Voban of SNC and more berserker.
Did he lost his magical energy? If I remember it correctly, he only lost some authorities and that's it. Voban still has more than enough magical energy to use strum und drang, Red punishment, singing spell book and Ragnarok wolf after four days of fighting with constantly activated authorities.

For me, his fate cutting authority is much more interesting than Fenrir's skull.

I think SNC Voban is more willing to go above and beyond than Campione!Voban. Maybe, because of his mind had been occupying a younger body.

Last edited by roronoa20; 2019-01-25 at 17:07.
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Old 2019-01-25, 17:10   Link #64
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It's probably because of his loss. Voban seems to have regained his youthful spirit in way more than one here.
So, I assumed old voban's campione spirit became a bit dulled after long periods of seclusion.
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Old 2019-01-25, 19:24   Link #65
Laksmana2
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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
Did he lost his magical energy? If I remember it correctly, he only lost some authorities and that's it. Voban still has more than enough magical energy to use strum und drang, Red punishment, singing spell book and Ragnarok wolf after four days of fighting with constantly activated authorities.

For me, his fate cutting authority is much more interesting than Fenrir's skull.

I think SNC Voban is more willing to go above and beyond than Campione!Voban. Maybe, because of his mind had been occupying a younger body.
It's not just about using your authorities, you must also see how much power he can exercise in them. And Voban actually said he lost power.
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Old 2019-01-25, 22:11   Link #66
Sakamaki Izayoi
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Not even 2 volumes into it and I already like Ren more than Godou(though, he was a decent MC too), actually I feel like I'll probably enjoy this a bit more than Campione.
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Old 2019-01-26, 09:48   Link #67
Laksmana2
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Not even 2 volumes into it and I already like Ren more than Godou(though, he was a decent MC too), actually I feel like I'll probably enjoy this a bit more than Campione.
21 volumes of Campione !, 8 of Meiyaku no Leviathan, 7 volumes of Chronicle Legion, all of this before Shiniki no Campioness and Ren, of course the author would improve on making an MC that pleases more.
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Old 2019-01-26, 10:33   Link #68
roronoa20
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It's not just about using your authorities, you must also see how much power he can exercise in them. And Voban actually said he lost power.
Voban said he lost some of his authorities, not power. If you're talking about how much power he can exercise in his showed authorities. I'd say he developed them even more compared to Campione!Voban. His wolf form is more than 50 metres in length(It's only 20 meters in the original series). He show a trick where he can illuminate light from his fur which consume Ren and Riona's attacks. His wolf minions were stronger than it was before.

I'm assuming that power you mean is a magical energy, not an authority.

I can't find any text that mention his lost of proficiency in using authorities or magical energy in either of spanish translation and JP wiki. I'll wait and see if there's anything I missed in Baka's translation.

It would be nice if you can provide me a chapter where Voban lost of power had been stated.
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Old 2019-01-26, 10:42   Link #69
Laksmana2
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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
Voban said he lost some of his authorities, not power. If you're talking about how much power he can exercise in his showed authorities. I'd say he developed them even more compared to Campione!Voban. His wolf form is more than 50 metres in length(It's only 20 meters in the original series). He show a trick where he can illuminate light from his fur which consume Ren and Riona's attacks. His wolf minions were stronger than it was before.

I'm assuming that power you mean is a magical energy, not an authority.

I can't find any text that mention his lost of proficiency in using authorities or magical energy in either of spanish translation and JP wiki. I'll wait and see if there's anything I missed in Baka's translation.

It would be nice if you can provide me a chapter where Voban lost of power had been stated.
Voban can change the size of his wolf form, against Godou and Luo Hao he was small, maybe the size of a horse. Size does not mean power, he just stayed the same size as Fenrir to enjoy the fight, just as when faced with Luo Hao he was a size close to hers.

And Voban made it clear that he lost powers and took a long time accumulating more to recreate his body, I do not remember him at any time talking that he reached the same force as before.
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Old 2019-01-26, 10:54   Link #70
roronoa20
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Originally Posted by Laksmana2 View Post
Voban can change the size of his wolf form, against Godou and Luo Hao he was small, maybe the size of a horse. Size does not mean power, he just stayed the same size as Fenrir to enjoy the fight, just as when faced with Luo Hao he was a size close to hers.

And Voban made it clear that he lost powers and took a long time accumulating more to recreate his body, I do not remember him at any time talking that he reached the same force as before.
I think the fur trick and his stronger minion should be count as a development in power though.

He accumulated his magical energy to recreate his body, and lost some authority. That's it. There's no mention of anything further than that.

“Sí. Aunque perdí algunas Autoridades en el proceso, pude obtener un cuerpo y una mente más jóvenes. De todos modos, lo puedes llamar un error de cálculo; es algo común.” (This is the original text)(I used every kind of dictionary other than google translate. There's nothing but a lost of authority mentioned.)

I don't see any text where he said he lost his power other than some unknown amount of authorities. Or, he couldn't reach his former height.

It's either you missed it or you got it wrong.
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Old 2019-01-26, 12:39   Link #71
GodSoul
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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
Voban said he lost some of his authorities, not power. If you're talking about how much power he can exercise in his showed authorities. I'd say he developed them even more compared to Campione!Voban. His wolf form is more than 50 metres in length(It's only 20 meters in the original series). He show a trick where he can illuminate light from his fur which consume Ren and Riona's attacks. His wolf minions were stronger than it was before.

I'm assuming that power you mean is a magical energy, not an authority.

I can't find any text that mention his lost of proficiency in using authorities or magical energy in either of spanish translation and JP wiki. I'll wait and see if there's anything I missed in Baka's translation.

It would be nice if you can provide me a chapter where Voban lost of power had been stated.
In volume 7 chapter 5 part 1
Sun Wukong grew to the size his head could reach the clouds, but John Pluto Smith stated that "Other than being ostentatious,that kind of size offers no actual benefit in real combat ... Simply stated, he is a vain god that loves seeking attention. "

Size is not power, the wolves Voban summoned against Ren and Riona, became giants after Riona has transformed in its giant form Yatagarasu bird. The 50 meter [Boar] which was a fragment of Verethragna was much weaker than the [Boar] 20 meters from Godou.

The two giant lobes invoked by Voban, follow the tactical vision of Doni, if the target is small and use a small sword, if the target is a giant and use a giant sword.
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Old 2019-01-26, 13:04   Link #72
roronoa20
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In volume 7 chapter 5 part 1
Sun Wukong grew to the size his head could reach the clouds, but John Pluto Smith stated that "Other than being ostentatious,that kind of size offers no actual benefit in real combat ... Simply stated, he is a vain god that loves seeking attention. "

Size is not power, the wolves Voban summoned against Ren and Riona, became giants after Riona was tranfomou in its giant form Yatagarasu bird. The 50 meter [Boar] which was a fragment of Verethragna was much weaker than the [Boar] 20 meters from Godou.

The two giant lobes invoked by Voban, follow the tactical vision of Doni, if the target is small and use a small sword, if the target is a giant and use a giant sword.
I completely agree to that point, size isn't everything.

However, I still stand that his authority has grown in other areas. The werewolf that Voban summoned demonstrate a superior strength and resilience. In the first series, Erica can fight with Voban's wolf without much difficulty. Now, Riona, who I believe is stronger than Erica still find it a little bit difficult to deal with them.

His new light nullifying technique which he can cancel his own lightning. Something that has no element related to the sun. It can be considered as a development his his ability.
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Old 2019-01-26, 13:24   Link #73
Laksmana2
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I completely agree to that point, size isn't everything.

However, I still stand that his authority has grown in other areas. The werewolf that Voban summoned demonstrate a superior strength and resilience. In the first series, Erica can fight with Voban's wolf without much difficulty. Now, Riona, who I believe is stronger than Erica still find it a little bit difficult to deal with them.

His new light nullifying technique which he can cancel his own lightning. Something that has no element related to the sun. It can be considered as a development his his ability.
Erika faced the common wolves of Voban, those giant wolves must be a different form of authority, Voban in the first battle against Godou did not want to kill, even because it would harm Yuri, so he made use of his weaker wolves and dead servants.

Voban probably creates more wolves giving less power per individual while he can create more powerful wolves in exchange for creating less. In order to capture Yuri it was better to use the small wolves, remembering that he himself did not attempt to attack in its giant form (imagine then a servant that could end up exaggerating?)

All this is conditional, not that Voban is more powerful, he just did not have to care about the life of Ren or Riona.
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Old 2019-01-26, 13:42   Link #74
GodSoul
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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
I think the fur trick and his stronger minion should be count as a development in power though.

He accumulated his magical energy to recreate his body, and lost some authority. That's it. There's no mention of anything further than that.

“Sí. Aunque perdí algunas Autoridades en el proceso, pude obtener un cuerpo y una mente más jóvenes. De todos modos, lo puedes llamar un error de cálculo; es algo común.” (This is the original text)(I used every kind of dictionary other than google translate. There's nothing but a lost of authority mentioned.)

I don't see any text where he said he lost his power other than some unknown amount of authorities. Or, he couldn't reach his former height.

It's either you missed it or you got it wrong.
Voban and Luo Hao have a lot more magical power than other campiones, but why?
When a human kills a god his magical power/Authoritie and absorbed by the human, the authority that he will receive and the most compatible with his personality or style of struggle.

When David Bianchi used geomancist to search for Verethragna, his magic pointed to Godou's location.

So the answer to why Voban and Lou Hao has much more magical power than younger campions, boils down to having killed many more gods and accumulating the magical power of these gods.

When Godou cuts off the authority of a god or campione his authority and magical power diminish, this is coincidence ?, if so a campione that loses its authority will not lose the magical power that it obtained of the god that killed?

When circe took the authorities of Godou, he suffered to defeat the avatars of Verethragna, who had power equivalent to divine beasts (with the exception of [Boar]), losing part of his authority had no effect on his total magical power, as he was not able to kill these divine beasts with a single kick when he wore [camel] that can kill a god?

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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
I completely agree to that point, size isn't everything.

However, I still stand that his authority has grown in other areas. The werewolf that Voban summoned demonstrate a superior strength and resilience. In the first series, Erica can fight with Voban's wolf without much difficulty. Now, Riona, who I believe is stronger than Erica still find it a little bit difficult to deal with them.

His new light nullifying technique which he can cancel his own lightning. Something that has no element related to the sun. It can be considered as a development his his ability.
The lightning of Black Prince's authority do not have much power, but if he spills large amounts of power on this authority he can produce a destructive effect equal to White Stallion.

Godou's Boar is strong enough to kill a god, and also go against the will of his summoner, if Voban's wolves follow the same principle, they could have killed Yuri even though Voban ordered not to hurt her.

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His new light nullifying technique which he can cancel his own lightning. Something that has no element related to the sun. It can be considered as a development his his ability.
yes I agree he may have developed a new technique, but I think he combined Sturm Und Drang and Legion of Hungry Wolves to produce that effect.

Campione and gods are so, never expect the same trick will work a second time.

Last edited by GodSoul; 2019-01-26 at 14:11.
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Old 2019-01-26, 14:39   Link #75
roronoa20
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Voban and Luo Hao have a lot more magical power than other campiones, but why?
When a human kills a god his magical power/Authoritie and absorbed by the human, the authority that he will receive and the most compatible with his personality or style of struggle.

When David Bianchi used geomancist to search for Verethragna, his magic pointed to Godou's location.

So the answer to why Voban and Lou Hao has much more magical power than younger campions, boils down to having killed many more gods and accumulating the magical power of these gods.

When Godou cuts off the authority of a god or campione his authority and magical power diminish, this is coincidence ?, if so a campione that loses its authority will not lose the magical power that it obtained of the god that killed?

When circe took the authorities of Godou, he suffered to defeat the avatars of Verethragna, who had power equivalent to divine beasts (with the exception of [Boar]), losing part of his authority had no effect on his total magical power, as he was not able to kill these divine beasts with a single kick when he wore [camel] that can kill a god?

The rays of Black Prince's authority do not have much power, but if he spills large amounts of power on this authority he can produce a destructive effect equal to White Stallion.

Godou's Boar is strong enough to kill a god, and also go against the will of his summoner, if Voban's wolves follow the same principle, they could have killed Yuri even though Voban ordered not to hurt her
There's no evidence that having more authorities mean increased magical energy. The only known time that campione receive an increase is when they ascended. When Godou gain Hanuman's authority he didn't remark on any indication of larger mana pool.

Gaining an authority is more akin to having new super-move or skills which has no relation to the MP

However, I'm not sure if this is possible or not, but constant usage of authority may increase MP. If that's the case, it will explain why Voban and Luo Hao has more reserve than the younger generation. They've been active for more than centuries and constantly fight the gods.(I'm not really confident about this.)

[Camel] doesn't have or never demonstrated enough fire power to kill a god in a single kick. Full power kick to the head couldn't kill Rama or Doni. If [Camel] can kill a god, Doni and Rama head would've been a red paste on the ground already.

When Godou cut his opponent's authority. They never show any sign of diminished magical capacity, it only seal their access to that specific authority. Voban never show any sign of exhaustion when he lost both Apollo and Osiris. He only exhausted his energy after he had to reconstruct his body.

Voban's wolf authority doesn't follow the same principle as Godou's [Boar]. Godou summoned a divine beast, but Voban creates a divine beast. [Boar] has his own mind and will, but Voban's wolf doesn't.

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yes I agree he may have developed a new technique, but I think he combined Sturm Und Drang and Legion of Hungry Wolves to produce that effect.

Campione and gods are so, never expect the same trick will work a second time.
This technique doesn't include strum und drang into it. The text doesn't mention any sort of combination between them.
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Old 2019-01-26, 16:21   Link #76
GodSoul
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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
There's no evidence that having more authorities mean increased magical energy. The only known time that campione receive an increase is when they ascended. When Godou gain Hanuman's authority he didn't remark on any indication of larger mana pool.

Gaining an authority is more akin to having new super-move or skills which has no relation to the MP
"The present goal is the sword-god(Verethragna). Since the power of that deity has recovered from ninety percent, if we can lower it to seventy or eighty, he will be forced to fight Melqart with caution."

"How did you get numbers like ninety and eighty?"

"Because the god of war has a total of ten incarnations. One of them. [White Stallion] is already captured in grimoire, so it's ninety percent. Is not that a simple calculation?"
volume 3 / chapter 6 / part 1

What history has shown so far speaks the opposite.

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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
However, I'm not sure if this is possible or not, but constant usage of authority may increase MP. If that's the case, it will explain why Voban and Luo Hao has more reserve than the younger generation. They've been active for more than centuries and constantly fight the gods.(I'm not really confident about this.)
Campiones gain dominion over their authorities on the battlefield, that's right, history has already confirmed this, but increase the magical power? this was never stated. Gaining more mastery over their authorities, new skills can be achieved such as "manifest avatar".

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[Camel] doesn't have or never demonstrated enough fire power to kill a god in a single kick. Full power kick to the head couldn't kill Rama or Doni. If [Camel] can kill a god, Doni and Rama head would've been a red paste on the ground already.
Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi and the Divine Sword of Salvation bounced away from the lightning's impact. For just an instant, the "King of the End" went "!?" and stared wide-eyed, his attention slightly diverted. Godou suddenly jumped and delivered a right straight kick from midair! The kick dug straight into the "King of the End"'s chest. In that instant, Godou poured magical power into his right leg, increasing the kick's power to a maximum. This was his rst attempt at doing so — But it worked. The "King of the End" ew ten-odd meters, nally collapsing on his back somewhere halfway up the hill. "How splendid, godslayer..." Frowning in pain, the "King of the End" pushed his upper torso up, trying to stand. The place where Godou's kick had dug in, right over the heart, was glowing with red light. "Just now — It's my loss, huh. May I know your name?" "...Kusanagi Godou."
Volume 15 / Chapter 4 / part 3(I think you skipped this volume)

Man of Steel and a full authority, while [Camel] is part of an authority that manifests itself in 10 ways. Godou stated that one of the forms of the Persian Warlord, had a third of the power of a single authority like Man of Steel / Ripping Silver Arm / Rudra's Arrows. In the duel between rama and Godou in volume 21, Godou has no intention of killing Rama, he wanted to ally himself, because it was useless to kill him

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Voban's wolf authority doesn't follow the same principle as Godou's [Boar]. Godou summoned a divine beast, but Voban creates a divine beast. [Boar] has his own mind and will, but Voban's wolf doesn't.
Where it is written that he does not follow the same principle? What history has shown so far speaks the opposite.

When Ena descended to Netherworld with Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi, the divine blade was filled with magical power and apparently became demi-independent, which allowed Godou to steal it from Susanoo. All gods, divine beasts, divine tools, and people on divine power effect, have shown changes in their personalities and behavior, the more power, the greater the effect. Even though Voban's wolves are created, they still have to obey the laws of the campione universe! Or else the story will not make sense, it will be similar to fairy tail, where all the rules can be changed in favor of the protagonism.

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This technique doesn't include strum und drang into it. The text doesn't mention any sort of combination between them.
I never claimed that he combined two authorities, I just gave my thoughts on how he could have made that effect.
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Old 2019-01-26, 17:37   Link #77
roronoa20
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Originally Posted by GodSoul View Post
"The present goal is the sword-god(Verethragna). Since the power of that deity has recovered from ninety percent, if we can lower it to seventy or eighty, he will be forced to fight Melqart with caution."

"How did you get numbers like ninety and eighty?"

"Because the god of war has a total of ten incarnations. One of them. [White Stallion] is already captured in grimoire, so it's ninety percent. Is not that a simple calculation?"
volume 3 / chapter 6 / part 1

What history has shown so far speaks the opposite.
What this mean isn't magical energy, but an authority that Veretharagna can access. It didn't mention anything about magical energy. It's like when Godou lost his avatar, there's no way he can be in his top condition. If verethragna can't use every move that he has, he'll obvious need to be more cautious.

I don't think you should use heretic gods as a case study, since we've no idea if there's any differences between campione and god's physiology.

In vol.21, got his [warrior] stolen, but didn't mention anything about his reserve being drained.

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Originally Posted by GodSoul View Post
Campiones gain dominion over their authorities on the battlefield, that's right, history has already confirmed this, but increase the magical power? this was never stated. Gaining more mastery over their authorities, new skills can be achieved such as "manifest avatar".
This is true. I can be wrong about that.


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Originally Posted by GodSoul View Post
Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi and the Divine Sword of Salvation bounced away from the lightning's impact. For just an instant, the "King of the End" went "!?" and stared wide-eyed, his attention slightly diverted. Godou suddenly jumped and delivered a right straight kick from midair! The kick dug straight into the "King of the End"'s chest. In that instant, Godou poured magical power into his right leg, increasing the kick's power to a maximum. This was his rst attempt at doing so — But it worked. The "King of the End" ew ten-odd meters, nally collapsing on his back somewhere halfway up the hill. "How splendid, godslayer..." Frowning in pain, the "King of the End" pushed his upper torso up, trying to stand. The place where Godou's kick had dug in, right over the heart, was glowing with red light. "Just now — It's my loss, huh. May I know your name?" "...Kusanagi Godou."
Volume 15 / Chapter 4 / part 3(I think you skipped this volume)

Man of Steel and a full authority, while [Camel] is part of an authority that manifests itself in 10 ways. Godou stated that one of the forms of the Persian Warlord, had a third of the power of a single authority like Man of Steel / Ripping Silver Arm / Rudra's Arrows. In the duel between rama and Godou in volume 21, Godou has no intention of killing Rama, he wanted to ally himself, because it was useless to kill him
I didn't skip Vol.15. Rama in this volume isn't at his top condition. The author stated himself that He was in an incomplete state. Thus, this shouldn't count since his enemy has a lot of handicaps and unable to access his full strength. The complete Rama has an authority that produce the same effect as Man of Steel. His steel body endure Luo Hao's blow which is more powerful than [Camel]

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Where it is written that he does not follow the same principle? What history has shown so far speaks the opposite.

When Ena descended to Netherworld with Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi, the divine blade was filled with magical power and apparently became demi-independent, which allowed Godou to steal it from Susanoo. All gods, divine beasts, divine tools, and people on divine power effect, have shown changes in their personalities and behavior, the more power, the greater the effect. Even though Voban's wolves are created, they still have to obey the laws of the campione universe! Or else the story will not make sense, it will be similar to fairy tail, where all the rules can be changed in favor of the protagonism.
I'd like to know when that principle has been established in this story? Has it been formally stated in the book? Ame no murakumo already possess his individuality and he became independent because Ena allowed him to consume her. There's no change in his personality. Boar is an incarnation of god which represent Godou's destructive side, that's why it has personality and will. Other divine beings in this story was subject to the change of personality via the curse of madness, regardless of power. Which these curse doesn't affect campione's authority. Aisha's guardian doesn't demonstrated any kind of ego or personality. I don't this principle that you've said can be applied to Voban's wolf. Their nature are more similar to a puppet with an order installed into their head.
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Old 2019-01-26, 20:00   Link #78
Laksmana2
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Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
What this mean isn't magical energy, but an authority that Veretharagna can access. It didn't mention anything about magical energy. It's like when Godou lost his avatar, there's no way he can be in his top condition. If verethragna can't use every move that he has, he'll obvious need to be more cautious.

I don't think you should use heretic gods as a case study, since we've no idea if there's any differences between campione and god's physiology.

In vol.21, got his [warrior] stolen, but didn't mention anything about his reserve being drained.



This is true. I can be wrong about that.




I didn't skip Vol.15. Rama in this volume isn't at his top condition. The author stated himself that He was in an incomplete state. Thus, this shouldn't count since his enemy has a lot of handicaps and unable to access his full strength. The complete Rama has an authority that produce the same effect as Man of Steel. His steel body endure Luo Hao's blow which is more powerful than [Camel]



I'd like to know when that principle has been established in this story? Has it been formally stated in the book? Ame no murakumo already possess his individuality and he became independent because Ena allowed him to consume her. There's no change in his personality. Boar is an incarnation of god which represent Godou's destructive side, that's why it has personality and will. Other divine beings in this story was subject to the change of personality via the curse of madness, regardless of power. Which these curse doesn't affect campione's authority. Aisha's guardian doesn't demonstrated any kind of ego or personality. I don't this principle that you've said can be applied to Voban's wolf. Their nature are more similar to a puppet with an order installed into their head.
Jabberwock is not exactly a conscious invocation by what has been shown, it is merely the manifestation of the Aisha Authority having a pre-established purpose (protecting the population).

It would have been better to have quoted Alec's Faceless Queen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
What this mean isn't magical energy, but an authority that Veretharagna can access. It didn't mention anything about magical energy. It's like when Godou lost his avatar, there's no way he can be in his top condition. If verethragna can't use every move that he has, he'll obvious need to be more cautious.

I don't think you should use heretic gods as a case study, since we've no idea if there's any differences between campione and god's physiology.

In vol.21, got his [warrior] stolen, but didn't mention anything about his reserve being drained.



This is true. I can be wrong about that.




I didn't skip Vol.15. Rama in this volume isn't at his top condition. The author stated himself that He was in an incomplete state. Thus, this shouldn't count since his enemy has a lot of handicaps and unable to access his full strength. The complete Rama has an authority that produce the same effect as Man of Steel. His steel body endure Luo Hao's blow which is more powerful than [Camel]



I'd like to know when that principle has been established in this story? Has it been formally stated in the book? Ame no murakumo already possess his individuality and he became independent because Ena allowed him to consume her. There's no change in his personality. Boar is an incarnation of god which represent Godou's destructive side, that's why it has personality and will. Other divine beings in this story was subject to the change of personality via the curse of madness, regardless of power. Which these curse doesn't affect campione's authority. Aisha's guardian doesn't demonstrated any kind of ego or personality. I don't this principle that you've said can be applied to Voban's wolf. Their nature are more similar to a puppet with an order installed into their head.

The normal kick of the [Camel] can seriously injure gods (as shown when breaking the bones of Athena) and kill Dragon-level divine beasts. The kick with maximum power can kill a god, even if Rama was not in his 100%, he was certainly stronger than a Subordinate, who is already much stronger than a Divine Beast (as we can see with Vaisravana and Zhu Ganglie) .

Last edited by LKK; 2019-01-26 at 23:46. Reason: Posts merged. Don't post multiple times in a row. Use the Edit button instead.
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Old 2019-01-26, 20:22   Link #79
roronoa20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laksmana2 View Post
Jabberwock is not exactly a conscious invocation by what has been shown, it is merely the manifestation of the Aisha Authority having a pre-established purpose (protecting the population).

It would have been better to have quoted Alec's Faceless Queen.
I'd like to quote Alec's Faceless Queen. However, We've almost never seen her action, so I don't know if his authority is something similar to Aisha's or not. That's why I decided to go for Jabberwock instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laksmana2 View Post
The normal kick of the [Camel] can seriously injure gods (as shown when breaking the bones of Athena) and kill Dragon-level divine beasts. The kick with maximum power can kill a god, even if Rama was not in his 100%, he was certainly stronger than a Subordinate, who is already much stronger than a Divine Beast (as we can see with Vaisravana and Zhu Ganglie) .
It's the same case as Rama. Athena was already weaken from the grail, so she wasn't in her top condition either. Full-powered Perseus got kicked in the same spot as Rama, and he still survive with no broken bones mentioned. While [Camel] does indeed pack a lot of punch, it wasn't that powerful.

PS.I recommend you to merge post.
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Old 2019-01-26, 20:24   Link #80
GodSoul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
What this mean isn't magical energy, but an authority that Veretharagna can access. It didn't mention anything about magical energy. It's like when Godou lost his avatar, there's no way he can be in his top condition. If verethragna can't use every move that he has, he'll obvious need to be more cautious.

I don't think you should use heretic gods as a case study, since we've no idea if there's any differences between campione and god's physiology.

In vol.21, got his [warrior] stolen, but didn't mention anything about his reserve being drained.
"Yes, when I used that grimoire in Japan, I spent a whole night talking to the god that was causing problems. I had to hear him complain about his hatred and suffering, so I seized the opportunity and stole the [Power Divine] from the bloke as soon as possible, turning it into an empty shell. However, this was only possible because he was a comparatively weak deity. After that, I had the venerated grimoire there, to prevent the god from reviving.(Volume 3 / Chapter 6 / Part 1)

So if [Prometheus' Grimoire] does not steal the divine power as you say, whence came the divine power that Godou used to fire the White Stallion power that was stuck in Verethragna.

I understand, you're saying that a human who was not a magician and had not killed a god, yet had enough magical power to use SKILL [White Stallion](not divine power because [Prometheus' Grimoire] does not steal divine power) with enough power to kill a God?

I have been a fan of the series since 2012, I have read all the volumes of Campione! and sincerely. This does not make sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
I didn't skip Vol.15. Rama in this volume isn't at his top condition. The author stated himself that He was in an incomplete state. Thus, this shouldn't count since his enemy has a lot of handicaps and unable to access his full strength. The complete Rama has an authority that produce the same effect as Man of Steel. His steel body endure Luo Hao's blow which is more powerful than [Camel]
Rama in this incomplete state produced a platinum colored sun that created a huge crater, killed the boar, and did not kill Doni, Godou and Aisha because they escaped into the Fairy's Corridor, combined Grand Luck with the corrective force maintaining history. He in an incomplete state showed to have power comparable to Lancelot du Lac(with full power) and surpassing Perseus / Mithras.

But I understand what you mean. If a god does not have Man of Steel, does he not count as god? he is not often stronger than a divine beast, right?. So for you Perseus / Mithras, Verethragna, Athena / Medusa, Artio, Pandora, Circe, Melqart, are not gods since they do not have Man of Steel, even though [Camel] can kill him's, that does not mean he can kill a god, since they are not gods, and so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
I'd like to know when that principle has been established in this story? Has it been formally stated in the book? Ame no murakumo already possess his individuality and he became independent because Ena allowed him to consume her. There's no change in his personality. Boar is an incarnation of god which represent Godou's destructive side, that's why it has personality and will. Other divine beings in this story was subject to the change of personality via the curse of madness, regardless of power. Which these curse doesn't affect campione's authority. Aisha's guardian doesn't demonstrated any kind of ego or personality. I don't this principle that you've said can be applied to Voban's wolf. Their nature are more similar to a puppet with an order installed into their head.
Verethragna, Sun Wukong, and Lancelot all showed changes in their personalities once they regained their full power.

Verethragna behaved like a true god when godou first met him, in their reunion when goat attacked a town, Godou was instinctively able to notice a change in the magical power of Verethragna, and his personality had become more arrogant. In his third encounter when he had already regained ninety percent of his power he was totally Heretic.

Before regaining his full power, Lancelot du Lac behaved like Guinevere guardian, as his power grew, he already knew that he would leave Guinevere.

While Sun Wukong was sealed, he behaved like a traverse monkeywhen he was released he still did not have his full power, and behaved cautiously with the two campione, after regaining his full power he became arrogant, wanting to crush the campiones in a direct confrontation.

Godou's girls had changes in their behavior after receiving [Adolescent], even Godou changed their behavior while wearing [Adolescent].

Voban's wolves show enough intelligence in their fight against Ren and Riona, using a tactic to pluck the head to hit Riona who was flying, I've never seen a puppet do this.

This same intelligence was not shown by the wolves that were killed by Erica. The divine beasts with more POWER showed more intelligence in the series than the weaker ones, like the centipede who used guerrilla tactics to deal with Godou.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roronoa20 View Post
It's the same case as Rama. Athena was already weaken from the grail, so she wasn't in her top condition either. Full-powered Perseus got kicked in the same spot as Rama, and he still survive with no broken bones mentioned. While [Camel] does indeed pack a lot of punch, it wasn't that powerful.
Godou caught Rama in a distracting moment the same can not be done with Perseus, and a divine beast has much less resistance than a heretic God. In campione all direct attacks against gods and campiones, mainly the most powerful ones like [White Stallion] proved inefficient, give a campione or god time to react and the secret to a defeat. But against other beings as divine beasts they are very effective.

Last edited by GodSoul; 2019-01-26 at 20:57.
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