[Manga] Chapter 509 Discussion

[Casshern]

So is it established yet that Madara only knows one jutsu and that only works on minor characters?

[Miccheru]

^ that, or he just didn't like his right arm

[Ulquiorra]

Kishi has a long established arm fetish. How many times has a character lost an arm? How many times is this for Madara? Three?

It's a little annoying to hear Madara say he underestimated Konan. A cliche for a bad guy, but why on earth should an evil genius like Madara play around with anyone? Who is he, Aizen? The more we see of the guy, the less impressed I am of him.

I am hoping Madara tears up her robe so we can see this.

Spoiler for Konan:

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Same here, I was pretty sure Kishi would forget about her.

With Gai and now Konan, Kishi seems to be rushing through some fanservice for some side characters. Can a Tenten pwning chapter soon be upon us?

[solidguy]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Kishi has a long established arm fetish. How many times has a character lost an arm? How many times is this for Madara? Three?

It's a little annoying to hear Madara say he underestimated Konan. A cliche for a bad guy, but why on earth should an evil genius like Madara play around with anyone? Who is he, Aizen? The more we see of the guy, the less impressed I am of him.

I am hoping Madara tears up her robe so we can see this.

Spoiler for Konan:

With Gai and now Konan, Kishi seems to be rushing through some fanservice for some side characters. Can a Tenten pwning chapter soon be upon us?

I think your confusing Kubo for Kishi. Kishi's fetish is eyeball's.

[Nite-Wing]

Only good thing about this chapter was the obito reveal.
Konan doesn't interest me I'd rather it be the mizukage who was fighting Madara.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

This could be a hell of head scratcher; namely thinking about all the possible things that could go wrong with that plan... I mean, if madara intended on Nagato to become a powerful tool for him, then the problem there is the fact that he was a war orphan and thus not really part of the local ninja system; even with those eyes the chances that he would actually grow strong without a teacher are incredibly small... there are just so many things that could have gone wrong that would have screwed over madara's plans... namely Nagato being killed, or even suffering injury to his eyes from an attack; i mean if Jiriaya wasn't with them, we know that Orochimaru might have killed Nagato right there on the spot...

That's true, a lot of things could've potentially gone wrong, but then again we saw Oro give Sasuke the CS which had 90% mortality rate even though his plans counted on Sasuke being alive to be his new body. Though Sasuke was already a strong and promising ninja by that point, unlike Nagato who was just a normal boy.

It's also possible Madara (or Zetsu) kept close tabs on Nagato figuring he would either develop the Rinnegan and grow strong, or die--in which case Madara simply collect the Rinnegan once again like he's doing now. I mean it kinda makes sense, a kid in a war torn country would be in chaotic surroundings and much more likely to become the type of extremist that Madara could use. I just wonder if there was something particular about Nagato that made Madara choose him.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

With Gai and now Konan, Kishi seems to be rushing through some fanservice for some side characters. Can a Tenten pwning chapter soon be upon us?

My magic 8 ball says "slim chance".

[Gin]

Was that lake paper the entire time, or did Konan use a jutsu to convert the water into paper? Either way, its pretty impressive.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

It's also possible Madara (or Zetsu) kept close tabs on Nagato figuring he would either develop the Rinnegan and grow strong, or die--in which case Madara simply collect the Rinnegan once again like he's doing now. I mean it kinda makes sense, a kid in a war torn country would be in chaotic surroundings and much more likely to become the type of extremist that Madara could use. I just wonder if there was something particular about Nagato that made Madara choose him.

The irony is that is EXACTLY the kind of situation he is (or should have been) dealing with right now. Namely that he needs to get Nagato's eyes back but they are out of his reach at the moment. Frankly he's lucky that konan did not do the intelligent thing and destroy the eyes otherwise he would be screwed... i would hope she would have been atleast smart enough to give the eyes to kohona so that they could hide and protect them if she felt it would be a waste to destroy them... honestly even that bastard Danzou made sure to leave fail safe's to keep anyone evil from taking his eye

Really, i just can't help but think it would have been WAY smarter if madara had just raised Nagato himself, and molded him into the perfect subordinate... not only could he make sure the precious eyes remain safe before he would not have to worry about his little puppet turning traitor over a few nice words...

[Midnight Commander]

I don't think I misunderstood anything; you're frustrated because you would like to see "women kicking ass consistently and being more than just a pretty face" correct? (as per your earlier post) I also repeated part of that in my post up above. I admit that this manga doesn't feature this consistently; that is obvious. About my metaphor with the vegan supermarket, I guess I may mistakenly lumped you and James together with the other members who slam the author because of the alleged "way Kishimoto treats women".

In my opinion, it really doesn't matter much because I'm not following along to look at pretty girls or to *necessarily* see powerful women --if there are some, hey thats fine too. (And, I'm not saying thats your sole purpose for reading this manga either) The occasional flirting and powerful women spices up the story, and to me this manga isn't lacking that to the point where it annoys me, but thats just me. I see your point though and I understand where you guys are coming from; its just that I don't feel annoyed by it.

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

Yet for every single one of those moments, there's at least half a dozen instances where these awesome characters are pushed to the background, make stupid mistakes that are unbefitting of them or are just there to act as a cry-on-cue button and be the damsel in distress. I cannot speak for everyone, but I have been with this manga for so long, that things like this are starting to get on mine nerves. Especially, when I know they/Kishimoto can do better.

This is true, however it is in no way limited to the female characters in the story. There are a plethora of examples I can site that show an intelligent male character suddenly fumbling around or making a stupid mistake which is unbefitting of him. I find it annoying also though, so I can agree with you there.

Originally Posted by james0246

^Hinata had a great character moment, but she was essentially crushed like the bug she is.

...just like everyone else in the village. Pain ran through *everyone* (regarless of gender) at Konoha with relative ease except Naruto.

Originally Posted by james0246

Hell, even Terumi's "coolness" was destroyed when you realize Sasuke was already 2/3rds dead.

lol I think you're taking this one too far. I don't care what condition Sasuke was in she looked badass -- nothing was "destroyed" at all. We know Sasuke wasn't going to die at the summit anyway, and her technique would have likely given him plenty trouble even if he was at full power, that's a pretty dangerous technique to have... Did Sauske's Susanoo look any less cool because Danzou was some decrepit old man? Well, not to me. If she beat Sasuke half to death herself, it would've looked the same way anyway. We know she is very powerful and doesn't take shit from anyone, and she looks sexy as hell to boot. Come on now, this isn't even a big deal...

Originally Posted by james0246

^Even Temari (the only woman in all of Part I to always look badass), in Part II, is reduced to a character tending to her sick brother and asking others to save her kidnapped brother.

"Reduced"? Why do you have to put it that way? Tending to her sick brother doesn't make her any less badass and it doesn't magically drain her of her powers or strength. She's still Temari...

[solidguy]

(two posts above)

That would require the develpoements taking place now to have been planned out well in advanced. Kishi is writting whatever he thinks is best at the moment then later on changes his mind. His ability to adapt what has currently occured to his new ideas for the story is lacking as what you have just mention would probably have occured. Its really good that he's giving us these unexpected developements but he should focus on keeping these consistent with the story he has already told. Cause when your plot becomes ass-pulls, they're basically shit.


Anyway.... Hands up for Tobi=Izuna

[Kyero Fox]

I always said it was Obito, If i'm right, I'm gonna Flame my friend sooooo much he's always like "NO WAY IT CANT BE"

---

God I knew there were more reasons i loved Konan now maybe she will get more fanart...


@CrowKenobi- Truely sorry, I must have clicked the wrong thing. thanks for fixing

[Luminion Lancer]

-@Captain Commando, alright let me put it this way: its not that I am demanding (or should) demand meat from an all-vegan store. Rather, I want the quality of of the vegetarian meals to be top notch. You see the difference? I know that there are a TON of manga series out there with better presentation of my ideal "kick-ass" woman, but right now, I am focusing on Naruto's portrayal because that is what I read right now. I could read the others, but this manga is my concern right now, and at the moment, the portrayal of women in this manga is...pathetic.

-As for the "bashing Kishimoto" bit, really he should be used to it. He's a mangaka, there is obviously going to be criticism/bashing on his work. As the audience that's basically our right (as long as there is no malice behind our actions). Hope that clears it up a bit.

[Albafica]

In the scan, Madara looks like Tobi..., a bit.
Is he Tobi??

The fight look cool by the way!

[yakumo-chan]

Tobi really looked like Obito in there....

[Takashipl]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

As for the chapter itself...Konan is under Tsukuyomi or is simply better than Yondaime

Well, Yondaime was fighting unknown ninja with unknown powers, concerned about his wife, child and whole village. Konan was in Akatsuki for a long time. Ninja must always look underneath the underneath, and she would be stupid if she didn't analyze weak sides of an ally and ways to use them. And last but not least - she was prepared for him coming. So no - her good performance is *not* strange at all.

[Suika-Esper]

Not one person has noticed that he looks like Zabuza? At all? Not only is he dead like Obito, but he comes from the Mist, so if anything there should be conspiracy theories about him instead.

(I'm gonna hate myself in the morning if this actually starts something serious)

[LadyKikyo91]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Besides Sakura/Chiyo in the Sasori fight, nothing you listed from Part II is in anyway "epic". Tsunade protected some people, but Nagato simply brought everyone back to life, effectively making her protection meaningless (and then she went into a coma due to her effort, allowing Danzou to almost fuck over the entire alliance; hell, it would have been better for Tsunade if she would have died, then at least she could have been resurrected with the rest of the village at full strength).

Hinata had a great character moment, but she was essentially crushed like the bug she is.

Hell, even Terumi's "coolness" was destroyed when you realize Sasuke was already 2/3rds dead.

Even Temari (the only woman in all of Part I to always look badass), in Part II, is reduced to a character tending to her sick brother and asking others to save her kidnapped brother.

Konan is the first (human) female character to take part in a fight in any meaningful way in close to 250 chapters (or whenever the Sasori fight was). It went beyond annoying to outright pitiful a long time ago...

No.1 Don't call Hinata a bug
No.2 Those moments are horrible
What about when Hinata fought Neji in part one. Even though she was defeated she was awesome for a shy girl that is one of the reasons everyone liked her in part one she was actually the only girl in part one that was strong well her and temari. I hate what Kishi did to her in part two but I still respect her.
No.3 Tsunades was awesome when she first fought Orochimaru. I remember seeing the episode that first features her superstrength I was like "Wow she awesome." She was cool that entire fight and didn't need to be saved once Indeed she was trolled in part two can't even save her own village needs a 16 year old to do it
No.4 Temari was awesome is the Chunnin Exams arc and during the Sasuke Retrieval Ar. Then got trolled in Shippuden reduced to doing nothing.
No.5 Karin was never awesome I don't care how many times she dumps Sasuke and goes gaga for Naruto.
No.6 Sakura was never awesome. She was good during the Sasori fight but I will stick to my statement she is a poor excuse for a heroine and i'll tell you something else Sakura is not going to be more of a heroine. The promise tha Kishi made was made almost a year ago and was a summary of what is supposed to happed in 2010 well Kishi its september and still no sign of Sakura being a heroine yet as a matter of fact that has been no sign of her at all.

Excuse my ranting.

[EadTaes]

Well I see why you can complain about some characters felling quite weak. But one thing I don't get is those ANBU black ops ninja. It seem when ever you see ANBU all they do is get their asses handed to them. So far for as long as I can remember in this manga if your an ANBU dude then your role is to get your ass kicked and handed to you as cannon fodder.

Hell even Konahamaru was 10x more of a worthy opponent VS Pain then the whole of ANBU corp seemed to be as a whole.

[Kyero Fox]

anyone else sensing Konan's votes in poles skyrocketing?

[Tettsuo]

I'm betting Madara's face changes when he shows it optionally. I don't believe he had any bandages when he was attempting to show it to Sasuke.