AnimeSuki Forums

Eratas123 · 2013-05-14, 21:46

IS sneaking up on IS when it comes to aerial maneuver, human on IS when it comes to ground. To be honest, you need to be REALLY stealthy if you want to sneak up on an IS as a human being. Like fighting Pygsy with noting but shards of glass in Manhunt.

ZeroXSEED · 2013-05-14, 21:54

Agreed

Now anyone want to be a prick like me and calculate the needed kE to blast I.S. shield? Or at least, predict what weapon.

Quote:

"Ha~[Byakushiki]'s really amazing. To think that it can allow the pilot to revive. Just like—"

"—Like the [White Knight], right? Core number 001 was the first frame in action, and the one you spent the most effort on, right?"

Something... SOMETHING during the battle of Atlantic certainly do more than harmlessly deflected by the shield. Certainly not cruise missile, because too slow, and not nuke, because the political fallout will be even worse than necessary.

StratoSpear · 2013-05-14, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

@ Stratos
And they always develop energy shield and anti beam coating, if only to slow it down from instant kill to survivable damage

Anyway, we could talk about fanon if you wish, more like idea sharing than debate (I hope)

Thought it would bore the heck out of others, sometimes ignored. I'd chip in a question later in regards to weaponry.

Quote:

That's where it's funky, maybe Box can give better explanation.

Crystal clear that yes, one can sneak up on active I.S. if the pilot is distracted enough to ignore the warning of automated sensor, so the all-direction awareness is not perfect. This is how Ichika almost beat Lingyin, in fact, and how he sneak up on Laura.

on the other hand, we DID see Ichika dodge attack from all direction, during his first fight, in fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Isn't 360 only like around you on a single plane of axis. 720 will be like the monitors in Zeta Gundam/CCA.

Until canon describes it proper, I'm going to see it as a 360 automated sensor and not literal super-fisheye view of their surroundings.

Eratas123 · 2013-05-14, 22:13

Let me ask you guys a question: To be Lawful or to be Good, which is more important to you?

ZeroXSEED · 2013-05-14, 22:15

Circumstances, mostly Good.

Most law are good in essence, but if law can't do jack shit then I'd better be a good person.

For example, it's forbidden for a nurse to administer medical recipe, but in the middle of mountain region where there's no doctor or apothecary? Nay, screw ethic.

Eratas123 · 2013-05-14, 22:18

On that scale, which characters from IS would fall into Lawful and which ones into Good?

StratoSpear · 2013-05-14, 22:20

I'd rather be Good. Law is fabricated my people and has the tendency to be biased so I'd rather act on my on conscience.

ZeroXSEED · 2013-05-14, 22:20

Ichika is firm on the good side.

The harem... did they even respect law at all?

Houki is less lawful and more about principle, screw law or goodness.

Chifuyu is VERY lawful until excrement broke the roof, at least.

StratoSpear · 2013-05-14, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

Agreed

Now anyone want to be a prick like me and calculate the needed kE to blast I.S. shield? Or at least, predict what weapon.

Something... SOMETHING during the battle of Atlantic certainly do more than harmlessly deflected by the shield. Certainly not cruise missile, because too slow, and not nuke, because the political fallout will be even worse than necessary.

Thinking about that for a while now. I would guess it's some sort of super napalm thingy that exploded just as much as the Gospel's beam attack did.

Eratas123 · 2013-05-14, 22:37

Hmm, my view:

Houki: Twisted Lawful. She was willing to let illegal fishers die (I still haven't let this go) on the flimsy justification that they're "criminals". That and she seems addicted to power, at least unconsciously.

Cecilia: Lawful. She's had to play by the rules to keep her family's fortune for so long.

Rin: Good. She's one of the first rulebreakers, but she does have her feelings in the right place.....sometimes.

Charlotte: Good, no doubt about it. She probably cares more about being morally sound given her experiences.

Laura: Lawful. If the fact that she was willing to use an obviously illegal upgrade is any indication, along with the fact that she's a loyal soldier.

Tatenashi: Lawful, in a sense. She does do a lot of things that would raise eyebrows, but since she's the prez she actually makes the rules she follows. Lawful by technicality.

Kanzashi: Good. Frequently ditches class and does things at her own pace.

Tempest35 · 2013-05-14, 22:39

Ah, the 'Lawful', 'Good', 'Neutral', 'Chaotic' thing again? lol

Ichika is, more 'Chaotic Good' than 'Lawful Good' at this point but he's not far into it since he respects Chifuyu, who is almost 'Lawful Neutral' to a fault now. However, she does have her moments of 'Chaos' such as letting him duel VT Laura when there were much more experienced instructors and teachers there to put her down. She knows he has something to prove and she's allowing him to prove it, even if it nudges some toes. And if they complain, then SHE stomps on said toes...

The Shinomono are more 'Neutral' than most and while Tabane is undoubtedly 'Chaotic Neutral' incarnate, Houki seems more 'Lawful Neutral' than her sister. The girls are undoubtedly influenced by Ichika's 'Chaotic Good' status but prior to that, Laura was undoubtedly 'Lawful Neutral' and Rin and Student Council Prez girl is probably the most 'Chaotic Good' among the group. Cecilia seems more 'Lawful Good though, as does Charl.

ZeroXSEED · 2013-05-14, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratoSpear

Thinking about that for a while now. I would guess it's some sort of super napalm thingy that exploded just as much as the Gospel's beam attack did.

Well, considering it's said to be 'modern tech', my best guess is naval autocannon or experimental railgun.

Naval autocannon, while tiny compared to their ship, will rape anything unlucky on the ground or air. And they range from 76mm to 155mm in caliber.

I need this because I'm not even sure I can pull the flashback well, so I need extra opinion. Thanks.

StratoSpear · 2013-05-14, 23:01

I'm using it as a foreshadowing element for an American Anti-IS weapon so it's good to debate about it. Thing is, if Chifuyu actually got KO'ed during the WK incident, it'll probably be a last, well placed shot from a damaged ship or something.

Either that or some flechette firing projectile that had her bleeding to the point of death before being revived.

Eratas123 · 2013-05-14, 23:09

Not morality

The choice essentially boils down to: Will a person follow the rules of society or their own morals? Say you capture a criminal, but due to his connections he gets off scot free. The Lawful thing to do would be to just capture him again, knowing nothing will happen to him. A 'Good' person will do everything they can to ensure he gets justice, regardless of law. Essentially, it boils down to whether you think either "Truth and Justice" (Good) or "following society's rules" (Law) is more important,

ZeroXSEED · 2013-05-14, 23:11

Quote:

"Vulcan guns or guided missiles couldn't even hurt the armor of the IS. There was even an energy shield."

First, the fighter planes couldn't turn about immediately as the human pilot can't handle the tremendous G-Force.

But the IS was different. With the defense system guarding it, no matter how mobile the frame was, the pilot would not lose consciousness nor gasp for breath.

And according to the figures the sensors calculated, the IS could process calculations faster and make decisions faster. It could also change into action.

Anything less powerful than AA missile or vulcan gun is ruled out.

StratoSpear · 2013-05-14, 23:28

Vulcan gun...? Really? Like an Avenger minigun type Vulcan?

ZeroXSEED · 2013-05-14, 23:34

Anyway, for all the firepower and durability wank, speed and reaction is their greatest assets. This is why slow, ponderous unit like Panzerkannone is worthless. And Golems are so fast that their massive firepower and/or durability is pouring salt to injury.

So I guess CONSTANT salvo of GAU-8 will chew through I.S., but their speed is that hax that not many bullet will made contact.

And by nature, AA missile work by proximity detonation either sending shrapnel, metal pellet/cubes, or an expanding filament web, it's weaker than individual vulcan bullet in destructive power. They work on most aircraft because most aircraft armor are are cardboard thin.

StratoSpear · 2013-05-14, 23:47

How about something that hits so hard despite the IS' shield, the pilot can still suffer internal injuries? (Broken bones, muscle strain yada yada)

Strigon 13 · 2013-05-14, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratoSpear

How about something that hits so hard despite the IS' shield, the pilot can still suffer internal injuries? (Broken bones, muscle strain yada yada)

A s**tload of C4 maybe?

Or a firing squad of several MBT.

Nah that's silly. How about a rather ridiculously heavy wrecking ball?

ZeroXSEED · 2013-05-14, 23:55

Exactly my guess, also remember in flight mode, I.S. are effectively mass-less. Sir Isaac newton HATE I.S. because they ruined his established law.

I.S. CAN preemptively detect the ballistic and firepower profile of a weapon, as well as environmental effect, shortly before and the moment the weapon is armed. Two I.S. with competent pilot fighting each other involves as much math battle as space exploration mission combined with speed chess.

At any rate, golden BB or sufficiently well made trap. Nothing military can't do.

I remember the idea of point-blank shooting a PT mook caught of guard, hard enough to threw it to nearby fuel depot which proceed to explode. So yeah, the I.S. is intact, the pilot... not so much.

2013-05-14, 21:46	Link #43241
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	IS sneaking up on IS when it comes to aerial maneuver, human on IS when it comes to ground. To be honest, you need to be REALLY stealthy if you want to sneak up on an IS as a human being. Like fighting Pygsy with noting but shards of glass in Manhunt. __________________

2013-05-14, 22:13	Link #43244
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Let me ask you guys a question: To be Lawful or to be Good, which is more important to you? __________________

2013-05-14, 22:15	Link #43245
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Circumstances, mostly Good. Most law are good in essence, but if law can't do jack shit then I'd better be a good person. For example, it's forbidden for a nurse to administer medical recipe, but in the middle of mountain region where there's no doctor or apothecary? Nay, screw ethic. __________________

2013-05-14, 22:18	Link #43246
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	On that scale, which characters from IS would fall into Lawful and which ones into Good? __________________

2013-05-14, 22:20	Link #43247
StratoSpear Titans Test Team Pilot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Elysium	I'd rather be Good. Law is fabricated my people and has the tendency to be biased so I'd rather act on my on conscience. __________________ "You cannot be bad at watching a movie. You cannot be bad at listening to an album. ...But you can be bad at playing a videogame, and the game will punish you and deny you access to the rest of the videogame."

2013-05-14, 22:20	Link #43248
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Ichika is firm on the good side. The harem... did they even respect law at all? Houki is less lawful and more about principle, screw law or goodness. Chifuyu is VERY lawful until excrement broke the roof, at least. __________________

2013-05-14, 22:37	Link #43250
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Hmm, my view: Houki: Twisted Lawful. She was willing to let illegal fishers die (I still haven't let this go) on the flimsy justification that they're "criminals". That and she seems addicted to power, at least unconsciously. Cecilia: Lawful. She's had to play by the rules to keep her family's fortune for so long. Rin: Good. She's one of the first rulebreakers, but she does have her feelings in the right place.....sometimes. Charlotte: Good, no doubt about it. She probably cares more about being morally sound given her experiences. Laura: Lawful. If the fact that she was willing to use an obviously illegal upgrade is any indication, along with the fact that she's a loyal soldier. Tatenashi: Lawful, in a sense. She does do a lot of things that would raise eyebrows, but since she's the prez she actually makes the rules she follows. Lawful by technicality. Kanzashi: Good. Frequently ditches class and does things at her own pace. __________________

2013-05-14, 22:39	Link #43251
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Ah, the 'Lawful', 'Good', 'Neutral', 'Chaotic' thing again? lol Ichika is, more 'Chaotic Good' than 'Lawful Good' at this point but he's not far into it since he respects Chifuyu, who is almost 'Lawful Neutral' to a fault now. However, she does have her moments of 'Chaos' such as letting him duel VT Laura when there were much more experienced instructors and teachers there to put her down. She knows he has something to prove and she's allowing him to prove it, even if it nudges some toes. And if they complain, then SHE stomps on said toes... The Shinomono are more 'Neutral' than most and while Tabane is undoubtedly 'Chaotic Neutral' incarnate, Houki seems more 'Lawful Neutral' than her sister. The girls are undoubtedly influenced by Ichika's 'Chaotic Good' status but prior to that, Laura was undoubtedly 'Lawful Neutral' and Rin and Student Council Prez girl is probably the most 'Chaotic Good' among the group. Cecilia seems more 'Lawful Good though, as does Charl. __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2013-05-14, 23:01	Link #43253
StratoSpear Titans Test Team Pilot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Elysium	I'm using it as a foreshadowing element for an American Anti-IS weapon so it's good to debate about it. Thing is, if Chifuyu actually got KO'ed during the WK incident, it'll probably be a last, well placed shot from a damaged ship or something. Either that or some flechette firing projectile that had her bleeding to the point of death before being revived. __________________ "You cannot be bad at watching a movie. You cannot be bad at listening to an album. ...But you can be bad at playing a videogame, and the game will punish you and deny you access to the rest of the videogame."

2013-05-14, 23:09	Link #43254
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Not morality The choice essentially boils down to: Will a person follow the rules of society or their own morals? Say you capture a criminal, but due to his connections he gets off scot free. The Lawful thing to do would be to just capture him again, knowing nothing will happen to him. A 'Good' person will do everything they can to ensure he gets justice, regardless of law. Essentially, it boils down to whether you think either "Truth and Justice" (Good) or "following society's rules" (Law) is more important, __________________

2013-05-14, 23:28	Link #43256
StratoSpear Titans Test Team Pilot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Elysium	Vulcan gun...? Really? Like an Avenger minigun type Vulcan? __________________ "You cannot be bad at watching a movie. You cannot be bad at listening to an album. ...But you can be bad at playing a videogame, and the game will punish you and deny you access to the rest of the videogame."

2013-05-14, 23:34	Link #43257
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Anyway, for all the firepower and durability wank, speed and reaction is their greatest assets. This is why slow, ponderous unit like Panzerkannone is worthless. And Golems are so fast that their massive firepower and/or durability is pouring salt to injury. So I guess CONSTANT salvo of GAU-8 will chew through I.S., but their speed is that hax that not many bullet will made contact. And by nature, AA missile work by proximity detonation either sending shrapnel, metal pellet/cubes, or an expanding filament web, it's weaker than individual vulcan bullet in destructive power. They work on most aircraft because most aircraft armor are are cardboard thin. __________________

2013-05-14, 23:47	Link #43258
StratoSpear Titans Test Team Pilot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Elysium	How about something that hits so hard despite the IS' shield, the pilot can still suffer internal injuries? (Broken bones, muscle strain yada yada) __________________ "You cannot be bad at watching a movie. You cannot be bad at listening to an album. ...But you can be bad at playing a videogame, and the game will punish you and deny you access to the rest of the videogame."

2013-05-14, 23:55	Link #43260
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Exactly my guess, also remember in flight mode, I.S. are effectively mass-less. Sir Isaac newton HATE I.S. because they ruined his established law. I.S. CAN preemptively detect the ballistic and firepower profile of a weapon, as well as environmental effect, shortly before and the moment the weapon is armed. Two I.S. with competent pilot fighting each other involves as much math battle as space exploration mission combined with speed chess. At any rate, golden BB or sufficiently well made trap. Nothing military can't do. I remember the idea of point-blank shooting a PT mook caught of guard, hard enough to threw it to nearby fuel depot which proceed to explode. So yeah, the I.S. is intact, the pilot... not so much. __________________