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Old 2017-05-29, 12:26   Link #1201
Wandering Soul
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While it may be easy to lay all the blame on Croix, Ursula's secrecy did contribute to Akko decision to go to the tree. If she just told Akko the truth when Akko decided to start hunting for the words, maybe this all could have been prevented.

Despite everything she's done, there is still a strong possibility for redemption in Croix's future. She may want to crush her former friend's dream, but she genuinely didn't want Chariot to die.
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Old 2017-05-29, 14:09   Link #1202
FlareKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
While it may be easy to lay all the blame on Croix, Ursula's secrecy did contribute to Akko decision to go to the tree. If she just told Akko the truth when Akko decided to start hunting for the words, maybe this all could have been prevented.

Despite everything she's done, there is still a strong possibility for redemption in Croix's future. She may want to crush her former friend's dream, but she genuinely didn't want Chariot to die.
It is easy to lay the blame on Croix....because it is literally Croix's fault. Akko wasn't going until she pushed her to do so. She wanted to go, but the logical arguments by Ursula and Diana were enough to keep her there. Ursula's secrecy didn't help her ability to sway Akko, but it wasn't a necessity to keep her from going. That's like saying it is Sucy's fault because she didn't drug Akko and put her into a coma for a few days until the pollen was fully spread.

There is room for redemption for Croix. But at the same time she probably will still use her job and go to some kind of jail. There is still some good in her (she doesn't want Chariot dying). But she was willing to ruin Akko's dreams and future for vindictive reasons.
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Old 2017-05-29, 15:04   Link #1203
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The episode just made me feel really sad for Ursula.
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Old 2017-05-29, 16:12   Link #1204
Wandering Soul
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
It is easy to lay the blame on Croix....because it is literally Croix's fault. Akko wasn't going until she pushed her to do so. She wanted to go, but the logical arguments by Ursula and Diana were enough to keep her there. Ursula's secrecy didn't help her ability to sway Akko, but it wasn't a necessity to keep her from going. That's like saying it is Sucy's fault because she didn't drug Akko and put her into a coma for a few days until the pollen was fully spread.
I agree that a majority of the blame lays on Croix, but Ursula's secrecy and her choice not to be completely open with Akko did make it much easier of Croix to manipulate her. Ursula's secrecy didn't make Akko go there, but it certainly didn't stop her from going there either.
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Old 2017-05-29, 16:22   Link #1205
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I guess my question coming out of this is....did Ursula save Akko at the cost of her own magic?
I think if she did, we would have known for sure right afterward. Granted i really was expecting Ursula to not only end up sacrificing her magic(for a moment i thought that might have been croix's plan to get chariot out of the way) but to also end up exposing herself to akko as a result. Really this did seem like the thematically appropriate time for akko to find out the truth.... however i think ursla losing her magic AND being revealed as chariot would have been WAY too hard of a blow to Akko. She feels bad enough for not trusting Ursula, but it would be utterly devastating for her to find out that her actions not only crippled her teacher, but crippled her hero. That think there's a limit to how much guilt Akko can bare in one day
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Old 2017-05-29, 16:24   Link #1206
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
I think if she did, we would have known for sure right afterward. Granted i really was expecting Ursula to not only end up sacrificing her magic(for a moment i thought that might have been croix's plan to get chariot out of the way) but to also end up exposing herself to akko as a result. Really this did seem like the thematically appropriate time for akko to find out the truth.... however i think ursla losing her magic AND being revealed as chariot would have been WAY too hard of a blow to Akko. She feels bad enough for not trusting Ursula, but it would be utterly devastating for her to find out that her actions not only crippled her teacher, but crippled her hero. That would be just way too heavy for Akko to take
I actually wonder if she did NOT lose her magic there for a moment, and then had it restored by the Staff.
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Old 2017-05-29, 19:25   Link #1207
ScrewySquirrel
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I don't think she lost her magic at all:


She's raised a shield around herself, Akko, and her broom.

But she's beaten up, already badly hurt, and the heat of the shield's friction leaves burns and cracks her glasses. And because of her injuries, she loses control of the broom.

If her magic had stopped working, her hair would have returned to red.
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Old 2017-05-29, 20:28   Link #1208
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Looking at it from another perspective, I think what we learn from Akko is that becoming an entertainer was only a secondary task and the primary was her meeting her idol. The Shiny Rod picked those who were selfless. I'm unsure if meeting her idol is a selfless task but it might be why the Rod picked her over others.

As for Ursula, there are plenty of reasons why she couldn't tell Akko about her identity, Shiny Chariot. Probably because Akko reminded her of Croix. Since Croix has a lust for power and Akko most of times did antics that were 'selfish', Ursula didn't want to tell Akko out of fear she could become another Croix. But hearing Akko's true goals, Ursula realized that she was wrong about Akko. Ursula was becoming Croix.
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Old 2017-05-29, 20:42   Link #1209
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Rimbo99 View Post
Since Croix has a lust for power and Akko most of times did antics that were 'selfish', Ursula didn't want to tell Akko out of fear she could become another Croix.
Nah, she always saw herself in Akko. And she never thought that Akko was selfish. In fact, she was the one who praised Akko for being selfless back in episode 7.

The reason she didn't tell her about her identity is because she's ashamed of it. She clear feels she's a failure and doesn't have the heart to reveal it to Akko. Heck, she doesn't even have the heart to actually oppose Croix unless Akko's in danger. She's clearly running away from her demons, so to speak, running away from her past.
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Old 2017-05-29, 20:56   Link #1210
quigonkenny
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Nah, she always saw herself in Akko. And she never thought that Akko was selfish. In fact, she was the one who praised Akko for being selfless back in episode 7.

The reason she didn't tell her about her identity is because she's ashamed of it. She clear feels she's a failure and doesn't have the heart to reveal it to Akko. Heck, she doesn't even have the heart to actually oppose Croix unless Akko's danger. She's clearly running away from her demons, so to speak. Running away from her past.
One of the reasons I posited that Croix might have lost her magic in that flashback. Chariot pretty obviously feels guilty for something, and I don't think simply failing at getting all the Words covers it.
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Old 2017-05-29, 21:28   Link #1211
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by Rimbo99 View Post
Looking at it from another perspective, I think what we learn from Akko is that becoming an entertainer was only a secondary task and the primary was her meeting her idol. The Shiny Rod picked those who were selfless. I'm unsure if meeting her idol is a selfless task but it might be why the Rod picked her over others.

As for Ursula, there are plenty of reasons why she couldn't tell Akko about her identity, Shiny Chariot. Probably because Akko reminded her of Croix. Since Croix has a lust for power and Akko most of times did antics that were 'selfish', Ursula didn't want to tell Akko out of fear she could become another Croix. But hearing Akko's true goals, Ursula realized that she was wrong about Akko. Ursula was becoming Croix.
i would say that Akko is indeed selfless. I mean when it comes to her dreams she always seemed to put them second to anyone who was in immediate need of help. She does have some selfish desires, but she she generally never allows them to come before others. Ultimately her heart is in the right place as her ultimate dreams is basically doing what chariot did and bringing happiness to the world

I agree with Kaze-kun, Ursula's reasons for keeping herself hidden most likely is just because of her person demons. Heck it might be nice to meet a fan, but the last thing you want to have to tell them is that you're big failure. You could say that Chariot feels like she's unworthy of Akko's admiration. In a way, facing Akko also means confronting her own failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
One of the reasons I posited that Croix might have lost her magic in that flashback. Chariot pretty obviously feels guilty for something, and I don't think simply failing at getting all the Words covers it.
Its possible, but I don't think Croix lost her magic. If she did, then i think the teachers would have mentioned it when they told Akko about her. One of their prize students losing their magic would be a very big deal and worth noting. Its possible that Croix left afterward before the teachers found out, though that would require Chariot keeping the whole thing a secret and i also think that a prize student abruptly leaving for no reason would also be worth noting...

Not to mention that Chariot doesn't seem to show any kind of guilt towards Croix. No she regards croix with antagonism. In fact in this episode, it seemed like Croix was the one who had some lingering feelings of friendship with her reaction to Chariot falling and then he still going after Akko. To me this seems more like a sense of betrayal.

Frankly, i think the falling out between Chariot and Croix came while they were searching for the final word. I feel like Chariot might have gotten tunnel vision going after the words putting them ahead of croix's feelings; Croix was always jealous of Chariot and only put up a tough front, but chariot's single minded goal to get the last word pushed her over the edge and Croix ended up betraying her in attempt to take everything for herself. This would leave Chariot more bitter and mistrusting of her, while Croix, who still thinks she was right, would always have a lingering feeling that she was wrong and mroe regretful that she broke them up.
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Old 2017-05-30, 00:11   Link #1212
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Frankly, i think the falling out between Chariot and Croix came while they were searching for the final word. I feel like Chariot might have gotten tunnel vision going after the words putting them ahead of croix's feelings; Croix was always jealous of Chariot and only put up a tough front, but chariot's single minded goal to get the last word pushed her over the edge and Croix ended up betraying her in attempt to take everything for herself. This would leave Chariot more bitter and mistrusting of her, while Croix, who still thinks she was right, would always have a lingering feeling that she was wrong and mroe regretful that she broke them up.
since the fans over at that board that shall not be named deciphered the words, and the last one is about fulfilling dreams, I'll agree the fallout happened over it.

I think Chariot's shows were at least in part her way to try to unlock the 7th word.

Croix attacked that show that little Akko and Diana were at. Chriot destroyed Croix's dragon and went through that portal to confront her. Whatever happened (possibly to be revealed in the next episode - Croix and Chariot), Chariot lost and lost badly. - it stripped her of the power of Polaris ("I may not shine anymore...") and destroyed her faith to gather the Words, losing the rod. She lost most of her self confidence in that battle, leading to her changing her name and becoming a teacher at Luna Nova sometime later. Holbrooke knows who she really is, because she helped her get the job at Luna Nova.
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Old 2017-05-30, 00:14   Link #1213
Endscape
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Something that stood out to me this episode was the look on Akko's face when Croix told her that she didn't remember a student named Ursula or that Ursula was hiding something from her.

She looked very frightened, like she was afraid of what Croix said. To me, that's more proof that Akko has subconsciously figured out the truth, but she's afraid to admit to herself, because it would mean admitting that her idol has been lying to her.
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Old 2017-05-30, 01:02   Link #1214
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I don't understand how you can keep her from getting to Akko but suddenly care that she's going to die only because YOU PUT HER IN THAT SITUATION.

How's that work? She literally tried to cut her apart before getting to the tree. She was full on determined evil and then 'ohnopleasedontdie'?

lol
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Old 2017-05-30, 06:44   Link #1215
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She overestimated her. It's not Croix fault (probably) that Chariot is weakling now.
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Old 2017-05-30, 10:14   Link #1216
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Something that stood out to me this episode was the look on Akko's face when Croix told her that she didn't remember a student named Ursula or that Ursula was hiding something from her.

She looked very frightened, like she was afraid of what Croix said. To me, that's more proof that Akko has subconsciously figured out the truth, but she's afraid to admit to herself, because it would mean admitting that her idol has been lying to her.
I think that was more the general fear of betrayal. She has come to trust and love Ursula;She was the only teacher who seemed to actually believe in her and encourage her. It would just break her heart to know that Ursula has been lying to her and trying to deceive her, an idea that Croix has been putting into her head

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I don't understand how you can keep her from getting to Akko but suddenly care that she's going to die only because YOU PUT HER IN THAT SITUATION.

How's that work? She literally tried to cut her apart before getting to the tree. She was full on determined evil and then 'ohnopleasedontdie'?

lol
Croix was just throwing what she thought chariot could handle. Croix got her stuck inside of one her golems, it was chariot who chose to blow the thing up and knock herself out in the process. She's underestimating just how far chariot will push herself for Akko.

Really the whole fight is why i feel things played out the way i said... Croix has enough bitterness and resentment against Chariot to fight her and want to see her fail, but she is also the one who holds the more lingering sense of friendship that was lost. This i feel would come about if Croix was the one who betrayed Chariot; such betrayal would give Chariot more reason to be more angry, suspicious and unforgiving with Croix, while that same betrayal would always leave croix with some lingering sense of guilt or regret since its ultimately her fault their friendship came to an end.
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Old 2017-05-30, 11:45   Link #1217
seiftis
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Revealing Ursula as 'Chariot' will probably prompt Akko to stop searching for the words. Akko will be like "Hey met my idol already, who cares about the words" mode. Meeting Chariot is her ultimate goal anyway in the first place.
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Old 2017-05-30, 11:50   Link #1218
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Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
I don't understand how you can keep her from getting to Akko but suddenly care that she's going to die only because YOU PUT HER IN THAT SITUATION.

How's that work? She literally tried to cut her apart before getting to the tree. She was full on determined evil and then 'ohnopleasedontdie'?

lol
It's one thing to try and hurt Chariot, but once she is actually at her mercy Croix realizes her feelings are more complicated. It's like wanting revenge and then after you've got it realizing it doesn't satisfy the way you imagined it would.
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Old 2017-05-30, 12:14   Link #1219
ScrewySquirrel
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heres a bit of a Wild Mass guess from this episode:
I Bet Diana knows what the word was and told Hannah and Barbara to tell Akko thanks to see if it activated the word for her. They did seem a bit awkward after saying thanks, like they were expecting something but while they were grateful, Akko wasn't so nothing happened. The Tree really had nothing to do with it, other than its where Akko realized how grateful she is to have a teacher like Ursula. And happens to be where Chariot figured she was grateful to have a friend like Croix (even if Croix turned into a false friend in the end)
and I bet even though Chariot doesn't know the 7th word, Diana has possibly figured it out
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Old 2017-05-30, 12:15   Link #1220
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by seiftis View Post
Revealing Ursula as 'Chariot' will probably prompt Akko to stop searching for the words. Akko will be like "Hey met my idol already, who cares about the words" mode. Meeting Chariot is her ultimate goal anyway in the first place.
Chariot would just have to tell her to do it and she would. Besides, Akko would calm the fuck down if she had a chance to talk to Chariot and let all her feelings out. After that, it would be easier for her to take things seriously.

It's not like she doesn't care about saving magic and such. She loves magic, and outright told Diana that she has come to love the school and her friends as much as she loves Chariot.

The thing is, she's desperate to talk to her idol. It's not even her real dream (that's to become a witch who can make people happy) but she gets so caught up in her feelings that she can temporally lose her way. It happened in episode 12 too, when she wanted to become the Moon Light Witch just because Chariot did it. After she calmed down, she changed her mind and focused on trying to make the ghost happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrewySquirrel View Post
heres a bit of a Wild Mass guess from this episode:
I Bet Diana knows what the word was and told Hannah and Barbara to tell Akko thanks to see if it activated the word for her. They did seem a bit awkward after saying thanks
That would cheapen the value of them actually going there to thank her on their own accord. LWA doesn't strike me as the sort of show that would do that.
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