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Old 2017-10-30, 15:03   Link #1301
Ithekro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Trump has even more baggage. Trump won because he represents what Americans Trump supporters see themselves. Trump wins because he is what the voters wanted.

Only in America would Clinton not win.

You see Clinton losing as proof that she is bad. But the rest of the world don't see it that way. You assume American voters voted wisely.
Trump didn't have the political baggage since he was not a politician nor that into politics. Clinton has been in the political spotlight in one way or another since Watergate in the mid-70s and scandles started even before Bill was elected President in the early 90s.

Trump has been the brunt of a lot of jokes since the late 80s, but not the political scandals of the Clintons. That is the primary difference in how Americans choose to remember.
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Old 2017-10-30, 18:15   Link #1302
SeijiSensei
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The most important news today was not about Manafort but Papadopoulos, a foreign-policy advisor who has already pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his dealings with representatives of the Russian government. He is now cooperating with Mueller.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/u...os-russia.html

The stuff about Manafort mostly predated his work prior to his joining the campaign. The meetings Papadopoulos had were during the campaign. The emails the Russians profferred may have been the same ones later offered in the June meeting at Trump Tower.

Any such efforts by a foreign power are illegal, and once higher-ups at the Trump campaign were notified about the Russian overtures, they should have informed the FBI.
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Old 2017-10-30, 20:41   Link #1303
serenade_beta
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Reminds me of the last episode of Death Note. I'm still waiting for the last scene to happen here. The only question here is who is Mikami...

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Old 2017-10-30, 20:51   Link #1304
monir
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Just two measly tweet from Donnie:
Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign. But why aren't Crooked Hillary & the Dems the focus?????

....Also, there is NO COLLUSION!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
The most important news today was not about Manafort but Papadopoulos, a foreign-policy advisor who has already pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his dealings with representatives of the Russian government. He is now cooperating with Mueller.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/u...os-russia.html

The stuff about Manafort mostly predated his work prior to his joining the campaign. The meetings Papadopoulos had were during the campaign. The emails the Russians profferred may have been the same ones later offered in the June meeting at Trump Tower.

Any such efforts by a foreign power are illegal, and once higher-ups at the Trump campaign were notified about the Russian overtures, they should have informed the FBI.
Absolutely. Papadopoulos is the bigger news here. By including Manafort with this indictment Muller made sure the investigation can carry on well into 2018. Manafort's indictment also tells me how much pressure Muller was under to drop this whole thing.
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Old 2017-10-30, 21:41   Link #1305
OH&S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Absolutely. Papadopoulos is the bigger news here. By including Manafort with this indictment Muller made sure the investigation can carry on well into 2018. Manafort's indictment also tells me how much pressure Muller was under to drop this whole thing.
Could you please explain what you mean by this?
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Old 2017-10-30, 22:15   Link #1306
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
Could you please explain what you mean by this?
There is a tremendous pressure to undermine Muller's investigation. At one point in July it also appeared that Trump might fire Muller. At that point a lot of the GOP senior members came out in support of Muller. Lindsay Graham flat out said he would introduce legislation to protect Muller and pointedly said it would be the "beginning of the end" of Trump's presidency if he dares fire him. While Trump didn't fire Muller, the pressure to undermine him was mounted relentlessly by his proxies.

When it was revealed that Muller has sealed document for the first indictment, a lot of ex-attorney turn politician pointed out the indictment will reveal how much pressure Muller is under. If Muller name names only small fish in that indictment, he isn't under too much pressure and he is moving strategically to the end goal. But... but if he names bigger fish like Paul Manafort or Michael Flyn then the tell tale sign is Muller is moving quickly because he feels the pressure to undermine this investigation is overwhelming and they might even succeed.

Case in point, when it was asked of the GOP today if they will introduce bills to protect Muller from firing, they brushed it aside.
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Old 2017-10-30, 22:51   Link #1307
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We're not hiding anything! So stop looking! STOP LOOKING RIGHT NOW! STOP DOING THE JOB YOU WERE APPOINTED TO DO OR WE'LL FIRE YOU!
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Old 2017-10-30, 23:08   Link #1308
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Case in point, when it was asked of the GOP today if they will introduce bills to protect Muller from firing, they brushed it aside.
Why would they? They won't remove any options that might preserve their own necks.
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Old 2017-10-30, 23:20   Link #1309
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Why would they? They won't remove any options that might preserve their own necks.
Yeap. That's why I wasn't impressed by Flake and Corker when they came out so hard against Trump. They wouldn't have said anything if their political outlook weren't so bleak.
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Old 2017-10-30, 23:32   Link #1310
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I always wondered if those senators should just have switched parties. It happens in quite a lot of other countries when it comes to MPs and representatives. If those senators had any balls, they should have outright said that they don't believe in the GOP anymore and thus they make the switch.
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Old 2017-10-30, 23:44   Link #1311
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Yeap. That's why I wasn't impressed by Flake and Corker when they came out so hard against Trump. They wouldn't have said anything if their political outlook weren't so bleak.
It's more telling that someone like Flake is retiring because he's too moderate for the party now. If he ran again, he'd lose. Badly. Flake is hardly what anyone should consider a moderate conservative.

I don't think those warnings are empty, but these protests are too little too late. The train wreck has been happening in slow motion for decades. It has to run its course.
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Old 2017-10-31, 00:04   Link #1312
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
I always wondered if those senators should just have switched parties. It happens in quite a lot of other countries when it comes to MPs and representatives. If those senators had any balls, they should have outright said that they don't believe in the GOP anymore and thus they make the switch.
Cause they will not win a primary based on what they've said and/or voted while they were on the other party. That's why they (Dems or GOP) can't switch so easily. They might go independent like Sanders or the one in Maine whose name I can't remember at the moment, but that move also depends on the constituency and providing they are polling positively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solace
I don't think those warnings are empty, but these protests are too little too late. The train wreck has been happening in slow motion for decades. It has to run its course.
I agree. Trump may be the best thing to happen to American politics in the long run. In the mean time, we'll have to go through this.
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Old 2017-10-31, 00:17   Link #1313
Valky
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I wonder what dumb thing Trump will do to try to divert the attention from this one.

Mueller still thread it carefully it seems, there's no Trump in the indictment. I want to say I look forward to this while eating popcorn but I doubt it'll end in a short time. If Manafort does flip it'll help a lot in hauling Trump though. Papadopoulos is more important than Manafort for now, until he flip that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I agree. Trump may be the best thing to happen to American politics in the long run. In the mean time, we'll have to go through this.
What are you talking about? There's still Roy Moore, your next president.
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Old 2017-10-31, 00:43   Link #1314
Applehell
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Papadopoulos might very turn out to be Trumps's "John Dean" as him alone might out and bring down a ton of high profile people like say Jeff Sessions who he is heavily connected too.

Seth Abramson has a long, but detailed thread that puts this all together.

Frankly if was somebody tied up in all this now would be a good time to start cutting deals with Mueller. I wonder if he'll go after Flynn too.

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Old 2017-10-31, 00:48   Link #1315
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valky View Post


What are you talking about? There's still Roy Moore, your next president.
I was so hoping his gun would go off when he was waving it in one of his recent rally. I know I shouldn't ask, but after Trump how bad can he be? We might go back to the dark ages, but hey.... why should European be the only ones to experience a little dosage of fascism now and then? I am sure black people are eager to experience the cotton field once more like their ancestor did and the gays are eager to be rehabilitated to discover the joy of heterosexuality. They rest who don't conform I'm sure we can make a lot of pits for stake-burning and/or a few camps that can facilitate thousands of non-believer.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!!!111111 Future is exciting.

In the mean time, I am eagerly waiting for what Trump will tweet in the morning.
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Old 2017-10-31, 01:52   Link #1316
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Why would they? They won't remove any options that might preserve their own necks.
At this point they might as well introduce legislation that retroactively makes collusion with Russia legal. It's not like they're concerned about appearances.
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Old 2017-10-31, 04:02   Link #1317
OH&S
End of Memes: Index III
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
When it was revealed that Muller has sealed document for the first indictment, a lot of ex-attorney turn politician pointed out the indictment will reveal how much pressure Muller is under. If Muller name names only small fish in that indictment, he isn't under too much pressure and he is moving strategically to the end goal. But... but if he names bigger fish like Paul Manafort or Michael Flynn then the tell tale sign is Muller is moving quickly because he feels the pressure to undermine this investigation is overwhelming and they might even succeed.

Case in point, when it was asked of the GOP today if they will introduce bills to protect Muller from firing, they brushed it aside.
Thank you for explaining that. I didn't quite understand why "who" the individual being indicted would indicate how much pressure Mueller was under but that explanation makes sense. My remaining question is whether or not the indictment of Paul Manafort helps protect the Mueller-led special investigation in any way (for at least the next few months)? Or will Trump cascade to the pressure a make a stupid move akin to the Saturday Night Massacre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Applehell View Post
Seth Abramson has a long, but detailed thread that puts this all together.
That was an absolutely riveting read. Bonus points for the plot twist about Papadopoulos!; he name dropped Papadopoulos right before the breaking news about him pleading guilty on October 5th. Of course I'll be cautious about making a premature conclusion about what will happen next; Seth Abramson seems to think this the beginning of the end but Trump, if anything, is an unpredictable horse (aside from all the corruption).
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Old 2017-11-02, 23:49   Link #1318
OH&S
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Trump Twitter account shut down by employee on last day of work

This should technically fall within thread guidelines.
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Old 2017-11-03, 03:36   Link #1319
Valky
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"Great Tax Cut rollout today. The lobbyists are storming Capital Hill, but the Republicans will hold strong and do what is right for America!"

Another plan that he personally doesn't even understand yet again. It's hilarious to see him trying to explain about the plan on the news. So much for a nice student & very intelligent ivy league graduates. lol

Interesting tax plan though. The people there should love it. lol
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Old 2017-11-04, 10:30   Link #1320
monir
cho~ kakkoii
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Tweets from Nov 2:
Donna Brazile just stated the DNC RIGGED the system to illegally steal the Primary from Bernie Sanders. Bought and paid for by Crooked H....

....This is real collusion and dishonesty. Major violation of Campaign Finance Laws and Money Laundering - where is our Justice Department?
Tweets from Nov 3:
My Twitter account was taken down for 11 minutes by a rogue employee. I guess the word must finally be getting out-and having an impact.

Everybody is asking why the Justice Department (and FBI) isn't looking into all of the dishonesty going on with Crooked Hillary & the Dems..

...New Donna B book says she paid for and stole the Dem Primary. What about the deleted E-mails, Uranium, Podesta, the Server, plus, plus...

....People are angry. At some point the Justice Department, and the FBI, must do what is right and proper. The American public deserves it!

The real story on Collusion is in Donna B's new book. Crooked Hillary bought the DNC & then stole the Democratic Primary from Crazy Bernie!

Pocahontas just stated that the Democrats, lead by the legendary Crooked Hillary Clinton, rigged the Primaries! Lets go FBI & Justice Dept.
You can tell he is rattled. He is pretty much repeating the same thing. That said, however, I also won't mind seeing reform how presidential primary is conducted by the Democratic party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
My remaining question is whether or not the indictment of Paul Manafort helps protect the Mueller-led special investigation in any way (for at least the next few months)? Or will Trump cascade to the pressure a make a stupid move akin to the Saturday Night Massacre?
It doesn't protect Mueller from firing outright but it does make things much harder to fire Mueller. If Donnie is brave enough to fire Mueller at this juncture, especially after Paul Manafort's indictment, the case for obstruction of justice against him becomes much easier to make. May be he will take heed to what Steve Bannon suggested 2 days ago: cut off Mueller's funding.
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