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Old 2017-11-04, 16:44   Link #1321
SeijiSensei
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I don't believe he can cut off Mueller's funding. Only Congress can do that.
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Old 2017-11-04, 17:40   Link #1322
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Tweets from Nov 2:
Donna Brazile just stated the DNC RIGGED the system to illegally steal the Primary from Bernie Sanders. Bought and paid for by Crooked H....

....This is real collusion and dishonesty. Major violation of Campaign Finance Laws and Money Laundering - where is our Justice Department?
Tweets from Nov 3:
My Twitter account was taken down for 11 minutes by a rogue employee. I guess the word must finally be getting out-and having an impact.

Everybody is asking why the Justice Department (and FBI) isn't looking into all of the dishonesty going on with Crooked Hillary & the Dems..

...New Donna B book says she paid for and stole the Dem Primary. What about the deleted E-mails, Uranium, Podesta, the Server, plus, plus...

....People are angry. At some point the Justice Department, and the FBI, must do what is right and proper. The American public deserves it!

The real story on Collusion is in Donna B's new book. Crooked Hillary bought the DNC & then stole the Democratic Primary from Crazy Bernie!

Pocahontas just stated that the Democrats, lead by the legendary Crooked Hillary Clinton, rigged the Primaries! Lets go FBI & Justice Dept.
You can tell he is rattled. He is pretty much repeating the same thing. That said, however, I also won't mind seeing reform how presidential primary is conducted by the Democratic party.
Donna B is a case study in writing self serving bullshit. I love how the media calls this lady a liar all throughout the election, then she writes a good with unsubstantiated or corroborated claims and it's treated like the truth .

They should get rid of super delegates in the democratic primary, but Hillary won the primary even without super delegates.... More pointless Bernie drama. He's leading this party and the country to ruin.

Trump is going to win the next election again because Bernie Democrats are working in cohort with Russian trolls and Breibart to smear the only people who actually get shit done in this party.
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Old 2017-11-04, 18:30   Link #1323
The Green One
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Trump is just pouncing on this convenient distraction to focus attention away from him. Business as usual.
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Old 2017-11-04, 20:45   Link #1324
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Donna B is a case study in writing self serving bullshit. I love how the media calls this lady a liar all throughout the election, then she writes a good with unsubstantiated or corroborated claims and it's treated like the truth .

They should get rid of super delegates in the democratic primary, but Hillary won the primary even without super delegates.... More pointless Bernie drama. He's leading this party and the country to ruin.

Trump is going to win the next election again because Bernie Democrats are working in cohort with Russian trolls and Breibart to smear the only people who actually get shit done in this party.
Oh gosh, where should I start with this one. Most of the media covered up for the DNC, including Donna Brazile. As the Hillary Clinton-DNC Deal at least part of it did came out ( https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ele...c-deal-n817411 ) . As Bernie leading the party to it ruin, it's the corporate democrate than are clearly in charge and they have remplaced many of his supporters with member of ''identity group'' they want Bernie around to leach out some of his popularity and nothing else.

And as '' the only people who actually get shit done in this party'' (which I guess than you are talking about the Hilarry wing). the only shit they have done is selling out to big donors, moving the party more toward GOP's position and losing election.
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Old 2017-11-04, 23:10   Link #1325
monir
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Today's standout tweet for me was:
Would very much appreciate Saudi Arabia doing their IPO of Aramco with the New York Stock Exchange. Important to the United States!
Wonder if Trump benefits in anyway if Aramco IPO happens in US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I don't believe he can cut off Mueller's funding. Only Congress can do that.
You're right, of course. They are trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post

They should get rid of super delegates in the democratic primary, ....
This little provision is actually quite useful to make sure a similar version of Donald Trump doesn't get the nomination from the Democratic party.
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Old 2017-11-05, 00:54   Link #1326
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
They should get rid of super delegates in the democratic primary, but Hillary won the primary even without super delegates....
Lack of super delegates ensured Trump on the ballot.

Quote:
More pointless Bernie drama. He's leading this party and the country to ruin.
Careful, your bias is showing really bad.

Quote:
Trump is going to win the next election again because Bernie Democrats are working in cohort with Russian trolls and Breibart to smear the only people who actually get shit done in this party.
Or maybe it'll be Hillary cronies who can't stop smearing crap all over the place that ruin the party. Last I heard, "shut up, fall in line, and be thankful that I let you" isn't a very good way to garner support.
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Old 2017-11-05, 05:04   Link #1327
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
As Bernie leading the party to it ruin, it's the corporate democrate than are clearly in charge and they have remplaced many of his supporters with member of ''identity group'' they want Bernie around to leach out some of his popularity and nothing else.

And as '' the only people who actually get shit done in this party'' (which I guess than you are talking about the Hilarry wing). the only shit they have done is selling out to big donors, moving the party more toward GOP's position and losing election.
Sorry, I fail to see how this new generation of Democrats has any spine or stomach to get any sort of legislative achievement done. I don't like everything that Nancy Pelosi has done by any means, but she has fucking SPINE and an ability to get people in line that this Bernie wing does not seem to comprehend.

Democrats have a messaging problem and a lack of awareness of what caused so many middle America voters to flip from Obama to Trump. That's the good thing that Bernie initially revealed about this election, but Bernie lost the primary by a substantial vote total that nothing you guys keep picking at can explain away with. His backed candidates also continue to lose elections again supposed "corporate" democrats.

Maybe you should understand that your vision for the country is not as popular as you might think in the Democratic voting base since it's a very coastal white liberal world view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
This little provision is actually quite useful to make sure a similar version of Donald Trump doesn't get the nomination from the Democratic party.
You're absolutely correct, and that is its intended purpose. It also the quickest way to spurn the voting base into the idea of "elites" rigging the election to their preferred choice because they know better than the average joe, effectively crippling the general election efforts. I have a tough time seeing party elites going against the voter's choice in the end these days. Look how spineless people like Paul Ryan have been in this Trump era because they'll do literally ANYTHING to get tax cuts even if it's a Faustian bargain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Careful, your bias is showing really bad.

Or maybe it'll be Hillary cronies who can't stop smearing crap all over the place that ruin the party. Last I heard, "shut up, fall in line, and be thankful that I let you" isn't a very good way to garner support.
I'm not exactly trying to be impartial here...

Explain to me how Elizabeth Warren making an outrageous claim using Donna B's very unsubstantiated revisionist story that the DNC primary was "rigged" is at all helpful to our election challenges?

It has never been the case, nor will it ever be the case that party insiders will have no vested interest in the future or direction of a political party. That is not abnormal and we should not act like it is abnormal. Republican insiders didn't want Trump either. He just happened to win because they could not get together behind any particular candidate to oppose him in a unified manner, yet we don't all our time talking about that since he won!

Stop making excuses for Bernie's loss. That substantial vote difference was caused by more than just sympathetic Clinton staffers at the DNC.

--------

But anyhow, the distraction here is successful for Trump because guess what? Donna B and the Berniecrats are getting exactly what they wanted as illustrated in this thread which is more dumb controversy and whining instead of an actual focus on objectives the party can come together on and support. Bernie has already significantly shifted a lot of DNC positions to more extreme positions (Many who don't appeal to regular Democrat voters like me mind you). Everyday you guys sound increasingly like Bannonites who are out to destroy the party establishment.
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Old 2017-11-05, 06:16   Link #1328
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
But anyhow, the distraction here is successful for Trump because guess what? Donna B and the Berniecrats are getting exactly what they wanted as illustrated in this thread which is more dumb controversy and whining instead of an actual focus on objectives the party can come together on and support. Bernie has already significantly shifted a lot of DNC positions to more extreme positions (Many who don't appeal to regular Democrat voters like me mind you). Everyday you guys sound increasingly like Bannonites who are out to destroy the party establishment.
The question is, what the corporate democrate are supporting again? it isn't simply a problem of messaging but of content. Why electors would want to vote for a Democrate party than is turnig more and more into a ''GOP with some better identity policy'', shifting from, when not shiting on, progressive (and popular) position, simply because they aren't the Republican or Trump. That's what they did since Obama and they lost, hard.

It more than sad than the Democrate fight harder against progressist than republican.
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Old 2017-11-05, 12:00   Link #1329
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Sorry, I fail to see how this new generation of Democrats has any spine or stomach to get any sort of legislative achievement done. I don't like everything that Nancy Pelosi has done by any means, but she has fucking SPINE and an ability to get people in line that this Bernie wing does not seem to comprehend.

Democrats have a messaging problem and a lack of awareness of what caused so many middle America voters to flip from Obama to Trump. That's the good thing that Bernie initially revealed about this election, but Bernie lost the primary by a substantial vote total that nothing you guys keep picking at can explain away with. His backed candidates also continue to lose elections again supposed "corporate" democrats.
They "get things done", yet they have problems and lack awareness that caused them to... not get things done. Yeah, that makes sense.

Quote:
Maybe you should understand that your vision for the country is not as popular as you might think in the Democratic voting base since it's a very coastal white liberal world view?
Using that logic, you should understand that your vision for the country is so unpopular that it allowed Trump into the White House. That's basically what you're saying. "You lost, so stop trying."

Quote:
I'm not exactly trying to be impartial here...

Explain to me how Elizabeth Warren making an outrageous claim using Donna B's very unsubstantiated revisionist story that the DNC primary was "rigged" is at all helpful to our election challenges?
So your solution is to pretend nothing happened? Sorry, but you begin healing a wound, you must first accept that a wound exists. If you refuse, you just alienate voters. Though I guess you don't care if you do so, considering you're now blaming everyone who supports/supported Bernie as leading this country to ruin.

In fact, your rhetoric is basically the same as a manic Trump supporter.
  • She did nothing wrong
  • It's someone else's fault
  • Only she could fix things
  • Everyone else is ruining the country
  • Get in line or get out
Yeah, pretty much the same thing, but with less religion.

Quote:
It has never been the case, nor will it ever be the case that party insiders will have no vested interest in the future or direction of a political party. That is not abnormal and we should not act like it is abnormal. Republican insiders didn't want Trump either. He just happened to win because they could not get together behind any particular candidate to oppose him in a unified manner, yet we don't all our time talking about that since he won!
Nothing you said there discounts the claim you're arguing against.

Quote:
Stop making excuses for Bernie's loss. That substantial vote difference was caused by more than just sympathetic Clinton staffers at the DNC.
Stop bringing up Bernie's loss as an excuse for Hillary's loss then. The substantial EC vote difference was caused by more than just alienated Bernie supporters in swing states.

Quote:
But anyhow, the distraction here is successful for Trump because guess what? Donna B and the Berniecrats are getting exactly what they wanted as illustrated in this thread which is more dumb controversy and whining instead of an actual focus on objectives the party can come together on and support.
Sorry, I don't shape policy or prep people to run for elections. I'm also able to think of more than one thing at once.

Also, you, a Clinton cronie, caused it to be an argument, not Bernie supporters.

Quote:
Bernie has already significantly shifted a lot of DNC positions to more extreme positions (Many who don't appeal to regular Democrat voters like me mind you). Everyday you guys sound increasingly like Bannonites who are out to destroy the party establishment.
"I don't like it, so you're a virus trying to destroy it!"

Sorry, but no. If the positions are shifting, that means they see it as being better for both the party and the country. Weren't you literally JUST saying that party insiders have vested interests to not screw things up for the party?

I mean, if you want the DNC to split into two parties so those who want more than "Barely Right Wing" and "Extreme Zealot Right Wing" can vote for what they actually want, go right ahead and just say it. But you know that would just give the country to republicans for the foreseeable future and actually destroy the country. So instead of trying to force people who want something better to fall in line, how about you accept that compromise will be required? And part of that compromise is accepting that your favorite girl wasn't actually the goddess you seem to think she is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
It more than sad than the Democrate fight harder against progressist than republican.
Let's not get carried away now.
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Old 2017-11-05, 13:30   Link #1330
Akuma Kousaka
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I think I underestimated how far the grievances of Hillary's supporters would go in so far as her not winning the election. Truthfully, political affiliation is irrelevant so long as medicare for all, a living wage, terminating America's illegal wars, implementing the Green New Deal, and other necessary policies are passed. Perhaps someone could massage the question of how the bridge has yet to cross this water while some of these populist ideas accumulate momentum
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Old 2017-11-05, 14:56   Link #1331
Reckoner
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Policy matters little if the Democrats are not able to function in this new media environment, aside from attacks from foreign adversaries such as Russia. Clinton is an easy target for progressives because of the baggage she carries but the same challenges she faced during the election (i.e. breaking through the media circus of Trump, honing a political message that can rally the base sufficiently with simple clarity, dealing with the vast right wing propaganda network, etc.) are going to be faced by any Democratic candidate going forward.

We have an election for example in Virginia where the Republican candidate is essentially broadcasting commercials that Northam somehow is supporting MS-13 with some scare mongering, fascist looking commercials. How do we as Democrats combat that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
The question is, what the corporate democrate are supporting again? it isn't simply a problem of messaging but of content. Why electors would want to vote for a Democrate party than is turnig more and more into a ''GOP with some better identity policy'', shifting from, when not shiting on, progressive (and popular) position, simply because they aren't the Republican or Trump. That's what they did since Obama and they lost, hard.

It more than sad than the Democrate fight harder against progressist than republican.
During the election you were free to read detailed policy proposals by Hillary Clinton on her website on a whole litany of issues with actual tangible methods to reach those goals. It's a shame she couldn't breakthrough the media noise and she was likely the wrong candidate for the times we're living in. This was a change election and she wasn't seen as a change candidate. This is despite other than Bernie, she had the most progressive platform we have seen to date really.

Obama lost ground during his presidency because that's what happens to political parties in power. I'll also never understand Democrat's unwillingness to standby their landmark achievement in the ACA. We always fight on the battlefield set up by Republicans and it's infuriating.
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Old 2017-11-05, 17:07   Link #1332
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The fact the Democratic platform adopted most of the populist left policies is a token truth juxtaposed to Hillary's inaction on policy rhetoric. The post-Reagan Democrats have had a tendency to meet the Republicans halfway on economic policy as the latter kept shifting right, to the point where the ACA becomes an achievement for the previous administration despite originally being a right wing plan. Opposition is a necessary component of any democracy; the quandary is whether the policy one pushes starts distinct from contemporaries across the aisle or is already a diluted version of the opposition

The unique advantage of the populist left groups such as Justice Democrats and Brand New Congress is both the text on their platform and their speeches when given a platform. The absence of corporate money from special interests who are against certain policies psychologically frees candidates running on that platform to spearhead these provisos more liberally than a candidate who takes corporate donations. This is on top of policies that most Americans are in favor of
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Old 2017-11-05, 18:49   Link #1333
Reckoner
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Obviously there were was a failed political strategy, which is what I was talking about above if you bothered to read. Fact is though that this isn't just a Hillary problem, it's a Democratic problem. If Sander's message was so amazing he would have won the primary.

Furthermore, not a single time has Bernie or any other person been able to give a good example of how Hillary's donor interests impacted a policy decision for her.
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Old 2017-11-05, 19:49   Link #1334
MrTerrorist
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Even France’s Far-Right Doesn’t Like Trump
A new poll shows that French distaste for the American president keeps growing.
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Old 2017-11-05, 20:18   Link #1335
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
How do we as Democrats combat that?
You guys were so busy blaming each other that you forgot to come up with actual ideas for a solution. It has been almost a full year since Trump got inaugurated and goddamn Bernie and Hillary supporters are STILL arguing which side to blame. Keep it up and by the time you finally sit together to discuss actual steps Trump will be on the doorstep of ruining the US for another four years.
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Old 2017-11-05, 21:12   Link #1336
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
You guys were so busy blaming each other that you forgot to come up with actual ideas for a solution. It has been almost a full year since Trump got inaugurated and goddamn Bernie and Hillary supporters are STILL arguing which side to blame. Keep it up and by the time you finally sit together to discuss actual steps Trump will be on the doorstep of ruining the US for another four years.
I honestly am not sure what the solution is. The two main problems of 2016 were Russia and the media echosphere to me. What can Democrats do when the mainstream media continues to play false equivalency between the sides for the sake of some false balance, and we have a vast rightwing propaganda network attacking us (Mercers, Drudge, Breibart, Fox News, Sinclaire Broadcast Network)? Yes, Hillary made a mistake with the email server, but the media just kept running with this BS controversy to the bitter end and eroded trust with the public. If Comey didn't drop that bombshell at the end with the NY Times in lock step covering it as front page news, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. We would be foolish to believe that any other Democratic candidate will not encounter the same exact challenges going forward even if they don't have all of the Clinton baggage.

I'm a big fan of the Pod Save America Podcast (formally known as Keeping it 1600 with the Obama alumns), and their answer seems to be to build a media empire for the left to counter the right wing media because mainstream media really isn't liberal or helping us out at all. So far it looks like they're doing a great job at galvanizing the left but we'll see.

As for the Russia stuff, that will come down to the Mueller investigation and Republican agenda perhaps failing under the complete incompetency of the Trump administration. I'm not sure what the answer is to russian bots on twitter/facebook stirring up fake news and events that escalate conflict with the population.
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Old 2017-11-05, 23:17   Link #1337
Key Board
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A year ago, I'd say economic anxiety was the main reason for Trump's election
It's a factor, but nowadays I'm sure that Trump is pretty much the same as his base.
The only difference is he is overt about it and has trouble holding his tongue or his fingers

Trump is not a Russian invention. His core is something native to the US

Let's say you get rid of Trump somehow. The same base will elect someone like say, Richard Spencer
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Old 2017-11-05, 23:43   Link #1338
Reckoner
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Trump is a symptom of the disease in this country. This was planted long ago by right wing media like Fox and Rush Limbaugh. They created this monster and now we have to figure a way to deal with it.
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Old 2017-11-06, 01:08   Link #1339
monir
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Donnie tweets in between his round of golf with Abe:
May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI & law enforcement are on the scene. I am monitoring the situation from Japan.
*sigh*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
You guys were so busy blaming each other that you forgot to come up with actual ideas for a solution. It has been almost a full year since Trump got inaugurated and goddamn Bernie and Hillary supporters are STILL arguing which side to blame. Keep it up and by the time you finally sit together to discuss actual steps Trump will be on the doorstep of ruining the US for another four years.
The important prize for the Democrat is the congress and 2018 will determine if Trump or another Republican has a shot at winning another presidential election.
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Old 2017-11-06, 01:11   Link #1340
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Though there are not all that many Republican held seats up for grabs in 2018.
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