Valvrave the Liberator - General Anime Discussion

[Destined_Fate]

Course we all know it wouldn't happen that way even if they won but it's still a very tempting sell to the people and it keeps their war economy going for the time being.

[gordol]

Waffe weapon options:

*Seen:
-Gatling gun, ep1
-Machine Claw, ep1
-Missile Pod, official lineart for Unmanned Waffe
-Dqny Cannon, ep 1, retractable beam cannon on chest
-Eisen Geist, ep1, shields
-Beam Buster, ep4, A-drei controlled ones

*Unseen
-Beam Gatling
-Rocket Launcher
-Drill Lance
-Manipulator Arm

Dorrsia confirmed for MODULARITY!

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Course we all know it wouldn't happen that way even if they won but it's still a very tempting sell to the people and it keeps their war economy going for the time being.

Also if we try to divinate the reason why L-Elf wants a Dorssia revolution my guess at its current course either way Dorssia will collapse due to in-fighting.

His careful 5 year plan went out the window due to Haruto and Shoko.

[Irenesharda]

Well, I would a suspect a military titan such as Dorssia would know how to equip their mechs with a plethora of weapons.

I am actually a little concerned for Module 77. Col. Cain didn't seem too worried when he observed Valvrave's antics at the end of last episode. And will his line, "It's not if we win, but how we win." come into play later? He seems to be the sort of guy who has multiple tricks up his sleeves when it comes to the rules of engagement.

Also, how long do you think it will be before L-11 returns to Dorssia? He has been seen in full uniform in both pre- and post-show promotional material, as well as the evolving opening and credits, so I think it's safe to assume that he will return eventually. Col. Cain so far seems to be a shrewd and understanding man, I think he will know that L-11 isn't lying and will hear out his explanation. L-11 doesn't seem too worried about it.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

His careful 5 year plan went out the window due to Haruto and Shoko.

Not really, his 5 year plan had nothing to do with Haruto or the Valvrave. Those two inconsistencies simply allowed him to move his plan up. Also, I think considering how fast L-11 was able to reconfigure his plan to include Haruto, he won't be put off by Shoko and her "independent country" for long, if at all.

It's no secret that he's a genius, and I think if he can completely rethink an entire, detailed, five-year scaled plan to include and even hinge on a boy he had only met the day before, he can just as quickly adapt his plan to any new "inconsistencies" that may occur.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Not really, his 5 year plan had nothing to do with Haruto or the Valvrave. Those two inconsistencies simply allowed him to move his plan up. Also, I think considering how fast L-11 was able to reconfigure his plan to include Haruto, he won't be put off by Shoko and her "independent country" for long, if at all.

It's no secret that he's a genius, and I think if he can completely rethink an entire, detailed, five-year scaled plan to include and even hinge on a boy he had only met the day before, he can just as quickly adapt his plan to any new "inconsistencies" that may occur.

His original plan called for him still being part of Dorssia hence a revolution.

Haruto's body switch potentially made L-Elf enemy of the state. Bringing the Valvrave and Haruto under his influence would erase that problem.

But again his plan went further out the window with Shoko, the JIOR prime minister's daughter, declaring independence manipulating both Dorssia and Arus in the process.

The guy has OCD there is only as far he can handle OCP surprises like Haruto and Shoko. The guy is fussing over ham and egg breakfast for crying out loud.

L-Elf can't make allies as he does not yet know how to. Haruto has dislike of cause you know besides being an enemy soldier and L-Elf tried to kill him. It doesn't register to L-Elf saying sorry first.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

It's no secret that he's a genius, and I think if he can completely rethink an entire, detailed, five-year scaled plan to include and even hinge on a boy he had only met the day before, he can just as quickly adapt his plan to any new "inconsistencies" that may occur.

He is not as much of a genius as he thinks he is. He simply have no idea how to gain allies; I have a suspicion his 5 year plan involved him doing everything himself, just because he seems inept at recruiting anyone to his cause. Charisma he had none.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

His original plan called for him still being part of Dorssia hence a revolution.

Haruto's body switch potentially made L-Elf enemy of the state. Bringing the Valvrave and Haruto under his influence would erase that problem.

But again his plan went further out the window with Shoko, the JIOR prime minister's daughter, declaring independence manipulating both Dorssia and Arus in the process.

The guy has OCD there is only as far he can handle OCP surprises like Haruto and Shoko. The guy is fussing over ham and egg breakfast for crying out loud.

L-Elf can't make allies as he does not yet know how to. Haruto has dislike of cause you know besides being an enemy soldier and L-Elf tried to kill him. It doesn't register to L-Elf saying sorry first.

L-11 doesn't look very worried to me, and as I said before, I think that L-11 will return to Dorssia. There is no reason to continue showing him in full uniform if that was not the case. It might be hard to explain things, however Col. Cain doesn't seem to think bad of him, and that man seems very shrewd. I think with a little explaining and a little leverage, L-11 could get back in with the empire.

And the sandwich thing, it was obvious that something about Haruto (especially the use of the word "half") set him off. And for guy as cold and single-minded as he is, it must have been one serious emotional scar for it to trigger him like that.

L-11 may have OCD, but he has the mind of someone like Sherlock Holmes or Lelouch, he can plan to the last detail and then change up if need be. He even handled the fact that Haruto can't die with composure during episode 3. I am completely confident that he already has another plan in the works.

[Destined_Fate]

Yes well..

Shoko is still in the dark about L-Elf other than that he bullied Haruto at the start of the series. L-Elf could easily make contact with her and convince her that he wants to help without too much effort. The issue is if/when Haruto finds out and what he decides to say or not to say.

[Irenesharda]

That would be interesting if he manipulated her so that he could manipulate Haruto into doing what he wants? It says in his character summary that he will use any means for his purposes, so it's definitely something he can and would do.

But then there IS the issue that not only does Haruto know his secret, but so does Saki, Aina, and Kyuma. I can't see them all keeping quiet about it unless he has something on all of them or something.

[~BC~]

L-Elf knows Haruto's secret. That's what he has on them. I suspect they'll at least try to do covert interference but otherwise resort to keeping a wary eye on him. No reason to rock the boat so long as he looks like he's just hiding out at the school.

[battleengine]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

L-Elf knows Haruto's secret. That's what he has on them. I suspect they'll at least try to do covert interference but otherwise resort to keeping a wary eye on him. No reason to rock the boat so long as he looks like he's just hiding out at the school.

it wont be too much of a secret if the other pilots are students

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

That would be interesting if he manipulated her so that he could manipulate Haruto into doing what he wants? It says in his character summary that he will use any means for his purposes, so it's definitely something he can and would do.

But then there IS the issue that not only does Haruto know his secret, but so does Saki, Aina, and Kyuma. I can't see them all keeping quiet about it unless he has something on all of them or something.

Yes, he plans. But he is a complete failure at negotiations. L-Elf is NOT Lulu, he doesn't have any skill in treating people like people. He treats people like machines, and then get surprised when people act chaotically.

"Make a contract with me, it's logical."
"Get lost, you stabbed and shot me. It's personal."

[LostSome]

Originally Posted by battleengine

it wont be too much of a secret if the other pilots are students

It doesn`t mean the other machines will have the same "no longer human" contract with their pilot.
Or they will have different powers.

And I`m sure Haruto will try to keep his situation a secret from Shoko especially.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

That would be interesting if he manipulated her so that he could manipulate Haruto into doing what he wants? It says in his character summary that he will use any means for his purposes, so it's definitely something he can and would do.

But then there IS the issue that not only does Haruto know his secret, but so does Saki, Aina, and Kyuma. I can't see them all keeping quiet about it unless he has something on all of them or something.

I can see her trying to manipulate her but Shoko still ends up being Shoko is it either humanizes him or he becomes attracted to her crazy plans that keep ruining his own.

Yes but whether they say something or not is unknown as L-Elf could easily kill them all without anyone knowing any better... And they may want to keep Shoko ignorant since she is basically President on a new country now as everyone will be looking to her for leadership thus she will have a ton on her plate. The last thing she needs added is L-Elf being an issue as well, especially if she starts to trust him.

L-Elf also can spread the fact that Haruto isn't "Human" anymore and can body swap if they try and reveal that he's a former enemy. Or as Lost said, L-Elf could easily reveal the body swapping to Shoko and Haruto may fear that Shoko may hate him for being a monster(as he's insecure) when we know that Shoko would still accept Haruto as the Haruto she knows and loves regardless if he's a Space Body-swapping Vampire that pilots a giant mecha or not.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

L-Elf also can spread the fact that Haruto isn't "Human" anymore and can body swap if they try and reveal that he's a former enemy. Or as Lost said, L-Elf could easily reveal the body swapping to Shoko and Haruto may fear that Shoko may hate him for being a monster(as he's insecure) when we know that Shoko would still accept Haruto as the Haruto she knows and loves regardless if he's a Space Body-swapping Vampire that pilots a giant mecha or not.

Haruto is well known and trusted. L-Elf is an enemy spy.

L-Elf also have no skill in making anybody trust him. He doesn't know how.

[battleengine]

Originally Posted by LostSome

It doesn`t mean the other machines will have the same "no longer human" contract with their pilot.
Or they will have different powers.

And I`m sure Haruto will try to keep his situation a secret from Shoko especially.

98% (other valvrave) it will have, if dont what so special about the red valvrave that it has this.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Haruto is well known and trusted. L-Elf is an enemy spy.

L-Elf also have no skill in making anybody trust him. He doesn't know how.

Haruto is trusted because he's a "Hero" if people learned that he's a "Monster"(which Haruto being Haruto wouldn't deny) than they will have a moment of doubbt. We also have seen that L-Elf is VERY good at rousing a crowd and sowing chaos. L-Elf was so good at it that he nearly "won" effortlessly until the unknown Shoko factor took him by surprise and now has his full attention.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Haruto is trusted because he's a "Hero" if people learned that he's a "Monster"(which Haruto being Haruto wouldn't deny) than they will have a moment of doubbt. We also have seen that L-Elf is VERY good at rousing a crowd and sowing chaos. L-Elf was so good at it that he nearly "won" effortlessly until the unknown Shoko factor took him by surprise and now has his full attention.

What are they going to do? Tell Haruto to take his super robot and leave?

Haruto is keeping them safe. More importantly Haruto is keeping L-Elf safe.

L-Elf is confident, but that's it. He isn't any good at anything but killing people. Haruto isn't going to be ruined by rumours when he is the only thing keeping everyone alive.

You are attributing L-Elf with talent he doesn't possess. If he wants to sow chaos then he can, but he would doom himself in the process because the school is his only ally right now.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Yes, he plans. But he is a complete failure at negotiations. L-Elf is NOT Lulu, he doesn't have any skill in treating people like people. He treats people like machines, and then get surprised when people act chaotically.

"Make a contract with me, it's logical."
"Get lost, you stabbed and shot me. It's personal."

I think negotiations are the last thing on L-11 mind. He's from Dorssia which seem to do their negotiations at the end of a gun barrel. That's why he states that he and Haruto are on two different wave lengths. He doesn't want an ally, I think L-11 wants a weapon that he can use and will do as he commands and in return he will reward said weapon. He never asked when he talked to Haruto and he really doesn't need to, all he need is to find something that Haruto wants and then pull the strings of his trap. Yes Shoko saved Haruto from having to make the choice this time, but I don't think that she will always be there to bail him out.

And you have to admit that Lulu knew how to manipulate, destroy, and murder people in order to get his desired results. Lelouch like many geniuses was on that very thin line between mad and incredible. Just as Light was also at that line but crossed over. Even Sherlock Holmes admitted to being a sociopath and manipulator, so I don't think L-11 can be really blamed for being a little out of touch socially, but doing what needs to be done for the good of his plan.

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Haruto is well known and trusted. L-Elf is an enemy spy.

L-Elf also have no skill in making anybody trust him. He doesn't know how.

Yeah, but convincing them of this doesn't really require any kind of social finesse. Especially if his own secret got out. Just a few well placed stabs...

But yeah, it really doesn't behoove either of them to forcefully break this stalemate they're in.