(L) Eureka Seven: Astral Ocean

[Arya]

Finally caught up with the episode. I'm happy things are working now, I mean I really enjoyed these last episodes even if they are quite confusing with this fringe-sque direction. So waiting for new hints on parallel universes or time leaps, or both? I'm glad Naru is back and for once she as a heroine (is she still a heroine?) is siding with the wrong side. Or the different side. Because if we are crossing different universes we can't really be sure who is good and who is not. So far at least Ao seems to know as much as we know, so basically nothing, about what's going on. Elena and Naru have some knowledge at least, wrong or right it has to be seen, to make choices. I hope that it will not end up in a Eureka vs Naru.

Anyways I have to say that I agree with Naru on that answer about being equal and not simple being saved by Ao. Counting even how unemotional Ao was once he knew that Naru was back on the island his will to be his knight looked not so genuine. Even if I don't know if it was intended by the writers, or it was more a cold reaction given by his guilty for having forgotten about her/not being there for her.

I'm happy that Elena became such an interesting character

My only "complain" is about the character quality design, it dropped heavily or am I a bit too harsh? Oh, and I preferred the first OP/ED, both music and animation wise.

[Linkark07]

I wonder what kind of course will the relationship between AO and Naru will go from now on. It is obvious they will start to be enemies but will they start a relationship at the end, when either Ao or Naru joins the other side?

I remember someone on a blog mentioned that Naru is like Anemone. It is partially true, they both share some stuff like:

1. Both are using a Nirvash.
2. Both had an animal which was given to another person. In the case of Anemone, she gave her pet to Dominic while Naru gave Noah to Ao.
3. Both love the main villain of the show.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Linkark07

I wonder what kind of course will the relationship between AO and Naru will go from now on. It is obvious they will start to be enemies but will they start a relationship at the end, when either Ao or Naru joins the other side?

Spoiler for Bones anime spoilers (Xam, Mars Daybreak, Star Driver):

Unlike what Kaoshin has said, Bones so far is two for two (or three for three if you count Star Driver) in keeping the 'love interest as a rival' intact by the end. So it can go, as you have said, the relationship starts when they join together ala Mars Daybreak. Or it could just be implied near the end like Xam'd. Or it could very well be like Star Driver with no conclusion at all.

[Linkark07]

Yeah, what you said can be believed, assuming Naru survives till the end. Dunno but something tells me she will not make it to the end.

[Tyr Valein]

Oh, and did anyone notice the fact that Eureka never used homing lasers in the fight with Truth or in the original series? On top of that the Nirvash got one of the radar antennas on its head broken off, its shoulder plate crumpled and ripped off, and the plating on its feet destroyed.

Yet when Naru and Truth magically summon it from the depths (inside of Scub Coral btw), its perfectly repaired AND has homing lasers.

Something's up.

[Islanders]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

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Not Nirvash Type Zero Spec V but Nirvash Type Zero Spec... IV?

The glowing blue orbs remind me of Truth's orb at his waist.

Perhaps Nirvash TypeZero Spec 2 somehow fuses with Truth to become the final boss?

[leokiko]

Finally caught up.

And color me confused.

[MeisterBabylon]

Finally caught up.

Now this is impressive! Been a long time someone kept the questions flowing rather than let the plot wander!

[Marower]

The latest episode really screwed with out minds... everything is all over the place right now.

Since this episode had some connections with the first season, I decided to look them up. While the first thing didn't seem out of place, the other one... was. Hopefully it was just some animation mistake.

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The pictures are huge, sorry about that! And obviously, spoilers if you haven't seen the first series.

-------------------

I have a question to you, though. Some say the movie had homing lasers? I tried to find a scene, but I couldn't! Exactly where is it?

[Master Chibi]

I'm going to be so dumb happy when Renton finally shows up.

This reminds me of ROD TV somewhat.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Marower

I have a question to you, though. Some say the movie had homing lasers? I tried to find a scene, but I couldn't! Exactly where is it?

About 23 minutes in, just after the Nirvash transforms.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Haak

I thought it was an extremely heroic moment for Ao that pretty much tops all the others so far. He managed to find a way to save people even when he doesn’t have Nirvash on hand.

Heroic? I thought his best moment of the series already came in the first 3 episodes when he decided to save the island after the island already pretty much expressed they dislike him and his mother and blamed him for everything. Now that WAS heroic. This proved his resourcefulness more than anything to me.

Originally Posted by Haak

The general point was that they were emphasising just how much of a child she really was by making her a loli that could barely speak. The fact that she acts mature most of the time is meant to provide as a contrast. The sudden death of the Team Goldilocks was also the point. Ao barely knew him and he died literally the next mission. When he died, I did actually care because we saw just how much he cared about protecting the children. The scene where Ao looks into his room is meant to drive the point home that the man was someone who took the implications of child soldiers extremely seriously (“Never let the children die”) and that was something that I admired so I genuinely felt sorry for his death because he was clearly a respectable adult.

What they're trying to get at and whether they succeeded at it are two entirely different things.

You have to understand the sheer ridiculousness of watching someone like the godlilocks girl act so immature eating a cake earlier in the episode and whining in a really grating manner suddenly transforming into this ultra mature figure who is a paragon of wisdom in front of Ao after this unfortunate incident. To me I cannot connect the dots and there is an inherent contradiction born in the characterization. It is not linear, doesn't make sense, and is bad exposition.

Coupled with the fact that the leader received literally zero development, there was hardly any emotion to be felt. Ao lamenting to himself did not nearly have the impact it could have with better execution and a better character.

Originally Posted by Haak

She never earned this? Really? So you’re saying that just because you didn’t like the fact that she always made otaku references, any attempt at making her more complex is pointless? It sounds to me like you just have a problem with those characters altogether, not that there wasn’t any characterisation.

Let me give you an idea of how I felt about Elena: When we were first introduced to Elena, I found her funny and charming but i was ultimately disappointed because it seemed the most we would ever get out of her otaku references and fanservice. Then we were shown a completely different side to her when she met Truth in Episode 7. She wasn’t just wearing completely different clothes but it seemed this new identity was a hidden one. Not only that but she was also uncharacteristically calm at seeing Truth murder a whole bunch of people right in her face. And Truth showed an interest in her as well, telling her that she “sings the truth” which she reacted too. It should be noted that the theme of that episode seemed to be hidden identities what with Truth shape shifting, Rebecka and Stanley colluding behind their boss’s back and Elena having her own secret identity. And given the episode title was “No one is innocent”, I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say that was meant to be the hook you were looking for.

In Episode 11, Elena’s character is explored completely. No it doesn’t start half way through. It starts immediately with Gazelle investigating Elena and Mirror’s past (I don’t know why you find the thought of Elena’s company catching on to her hidden identity and actually investigating, not interesting). Not only do we find out that she has a major identity crisis but we also find out she’s connected to Eureka and that she potentially murdered someone.

As I said before, I was disappointed with her because it seemed she wasn’t going to be anyone. That’s actually what the storywriters intended. They lulled us into a false belief that Elana was just there for otaku references and fanservice and then they hit us with all this. Because the last person you’d expect to have a connection to Eureka and a murder is the girl that’s only seemingly there as comic relief. They took that trope and subverted it hard. That was the point. And I thought it was brilliant.

A character has to earn their characterization. Yes, I absolutely abhorred Elena's character from the very beginning. Why else could I care less about any development she's going to get? Why else would it make me mad that such an asinine character is somehow going to be so important to the overall plot of the show?

The different side of her we saw in episode 7 was practically irrelevant to me in retrospect because every other scene only ever had waltzing around like a ditz unconcerned about the issues around her. She didn't even feel like a genuine human because she only ever spent time giving meta comments. She practically didn't even function as a character to me because she hardly even held down a real conversation with another character. A cast member who practically did not interact with the other cast members in any way that made a difference, it was hard to even understand why she was in the show until suddenly some plot twist shoves her into being relevant once more.

The story didn't do a good enough job for me to buy it. Point blank.

Originally Posted by Haak

You’re expecting character change when the purpose of the episodes was to provide character expansion. Character change at this point would’ve simply been foolish and bad writing. You can tell from the storytelling that this series is plot driven. That means any character change ought to tie into the plot. There’s no point in having character change when it has no relation to the plot, because then you’re just left thinking “Well what’s the point?”. The only time that really works is when you’re trying to develop a relationship (Like with Ao and Fleur). And the plot in those episodes was purposely being developed slowly. And Ao’s new found thirst for revenge is definitely lead to change in his character.

Character expansion can be an extremely effective method of good characterisation. If you're really good then you don't even need character change. Take Iskander from Fate/Zero for example. Probably the most popular character in that series (at least on this forum) and he never went through any sort of change. Just a heck of a lot of character expansion. I'm not saying that's what Ao has to be but it seems clear to me that character expansion is a legitimate way of characterization.

Character change is foolish and bad writing at this point? Hello, he already changed in the first 3 episodes, the one I keep referencing as being the best of the first half of this show. You know when he went from not piloting the Nirvash to deciding to pilot it based on all the things he was going through on the island. I thought that signified a significant step in his development.

There's nothing wrong with character expansion, but when it comes to a story like this which can essential be interpreted sort of as a coming of age mecha story (Or maybe I am misled to believing this is an aspect since the original E7 was like this), I well expect for that to be a major force throughout. The problem is he hasn't been forced to grow up in anyway, or change because his actions up to this point have basically lacked any sort of consequence. He's never reprimanded or truly proved wrong in any meaningful manner. How am I to believe that this is going ot lead somewhere good down the line?

The only one who ever really criticizes Ao has been Fleur, but that was only briefly and during the time he didn't really have a true motivation for joining Generation Bleu. They didn't linger on this topic long and it ended as quickly as it began seemingly. Oh and btw, I thought this whole mini arc surrounding this idea was a bit hamfisted considering how assuredly he sounded when he joined Generation Bleu in the first place. This isn't NGE where Shinji has to question why he should help the world or something of that magnitude. He willingly volunteered to go in the first place, for reasons already stated, and then we're supposed to take stock in the fact that he's all of a sudden uncertain and confused?

Give me a break.

Originally Posted by Haak

Gazelle’s speech to his father about the older generation was screwing up the younger. Generation Bleu. The Pied Piper. “Never let the children die”. “I hate my father”. The perspective of different generations is a prominent theme throughout the entire series. The little girls are there for a reason. If you can’t appreciate a trope being played with simply because you don’t like the trope itself, then that has nothing to do with bad writing. It’s just different taste.

If it's about children why aren't there more boys piloting? It's hard to not be cynical with the anime industry, so this is an honest to god question. Is there a real reason thematically to have the young girls be the only pilots?

Originally Posted by Haak

The politics in Eureka Seven AO is far more ambitious than Muv Luv. Eureka Seven Ao presents politics such as trying to control Secrets to be used against other countries, manipulating the existence of Secrets for territorial disputes and currying privileges, or else preventing Secrets from being dealt with so they can deal as much harm as possible to country another may not like. The politics is a major theme throughout the show that has also contributed to the plot such as when Truth colludes with the hawkish Japanese general.

In comparison Muv Luv seems to be more straightforward. Aliens have invaded and countires collaborate to defeat a common enemy. There seems to be some issues with cooperation but I think it’s very unlikely we’ll see anything on the same level as Eureka Seven AO. But really we’re only three episodes in so making any comparisons to begin would be premature.

Don't want to get bogged down in a comparison debate, so lets say I disagree about the ambitious comment and keep this just to E7.

I think the politics in this show are not really all that interesting. It's a backdrop to things much larger at play. It isn't the main focus of the show, as far as I can see, so the machinations of them don't seem to carry any significant wait in the long run. So what if Okinawa is independent and isn't part of Japan. Is there a reason I should care? I just don't see how this will have that much of a real role in the events to be played as this show continues, considering how much importance they seem to placing on them.

Time can prove me wrong, but lets just say for now I'm highly skeptical.

[Haak]

Spoiler for @ Reckoner:

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Heroic? I thought his best moment of the series already came in the first 3 episodes when he decided to save the island after the island already pretty much expressed they dislike him and his mother and blamed him for everything. Now that WAS heroic. This proved his resourcefulness more than anything to me.

He also wanted to save Naru and had Nirvash on his side. And he was never traumatised by the Secret like he was with this one. Sorry but the actions he took in Arizona took more guts to pull off. The one you're talking about demonstrates his moral standards and maturity. In terms of bravery, the moment of Arizona is on a league of it's own.

What they're trying to get at and whether they succeeded at it are two entirely different things.

You have to understand the sheer ridiculousness of watching someone like the godlilocks girl act so immature eating a cake earlier in the episode and whining in a really grating manner suddenly transforming into this ultra mature figure who is a paragon of wisdom in front of Ao after this unfortunate incident. To me I cannot connect the dots and there is an inherent contradiction born in the characterization. It is not linear, doesn't make sense, and is bad exposition.

So it’s impossible to have two different sides to a character? Okay. But there isn't really any contradiction between the two sides. Just because you eat a lot of ice-cream doesn’t mean you can’t be mature about the loss of a loved one. If you watch the scene again, there are actually hints that the girl is more mature than she looks. But like I said, the contrast between her mature side and her childish side is generally intentional.

Coupled with the fact that the leader received literally zero development, there was hardly any emotion to be felt. Ao lamenting to himself did not nearly have the impact it could have with better execution and a better character.

Again, when he died, I did actually care because we saw just how much he cared about protecting the children. The scene where Ao looks into his room is meant to drive the point home that the man was someone who took the implications of child soldiers extremely seriously (“Never let the children die”) and that was something that I admired so I genuinely felt sorry for his death because he was clearly a respectable adult. The development is there.

A character has to earn their characterization. Yes, I absolutely abhorred Elena's character from the very beginning. Why else could I care less about any development she's going to get? Why else would it make me mad that such an asinine character is somehow going to be so important to the overall plot of the show?

The different side of her we saw in episode 7 was practically irrelevant to me in retrospect because every other scene only ever had waltzing around like a ditz unconcerned about the issues around her. She didn't even feel like a genuine human because she only ever spent time giving meta comments. She practically didn't even function as a character to me because she hardly even held down a real conversation with another character. A cast member who practically did not interact with the other cast members in any way that made a difference, it was hard to even understand why she was in the show until suddenly some plot twist shoves her into being relevant once more.

The story didn't do a good enough job for me to buy it. Point blank.

The meta jokes ARE her way of interacting with other people. If you don’t like it then that’s your problem, not the storyline’s.

We see Elena at work with Fleur as they work alongside each other to deal with Secrets in the first four episodes. In episode 5 she shows Ao around Generation Bleu. Half time she was giving meta jokes, but certainly not all the time and we do generally see her interacting with other people normally, especially Fleur which many of the scenes demonstrate a camaraderie with.

If you’re expecting any deep analysis of her character before then you’re missing the point. Elena’s character was meant to be a mystery so we were only going to get hints like we did in episode 7. And like I said, the general point was that it’s supposed to come as a surprise that she’s such a relevant character all of a sudden.

You keep saying that a character has to earn their characterization but how they supposed to do that without being characterised? Any attempt at making a character earn their characterization will likely count at characterization itself...

Character change is foolish and bad writing at this point? Hello, he already changed in the first 3 episodes, the one I keep referencing as being the best of the first half of this show. You know when he went from not piloting the Nirvash to deciding to pilot it based on all the things he was going through on the island. I thought that signified a significant step in his development.

Again: You can tell from the storytelling that this series is plot driven. That means any character change ought to tie into the plot. There’s no point in having character change when it has no relation to the plot, because then you’re just left thinking “Well what’s the point?”. The only time that really works is when you’re trying to develop a relationship (Like with Ao and Fleur).And the plot in those episodes was purposely being developed slowly

I didn’t say it would be bad because it’s too early. I said it would be bad because it wouldn’t fit the purpose of those episodes.

There's nothing wrong with character expansion, but when it comes to a story like this which can essential be interpreted sort of as a coming of age mecha story (Or maybe I am misled to believing this is an aspect since the original E7 was like this), I well expect for that to be a major force throughout. The problem is he hasn't been forced to grow up in anyway, or change because his actions up to this point have basically lacked any sort of consequence. He's never reprimanded or truly proved wrong in any meaningful manner. How am I to believe that this is going ot lead somewhere good down the line?

But you just said he was forced to grow up the first three episodes. The next episodes were meant to expand upon it and demonstrate his maturity through various ways. Character change does not have to be a major force throughout every episode even in a coming an age and sometimes it’s preferable to have an arc where the character is simply expanded upon before the shit starts to get real.

As for him being reprimanded for his actions, there's not really much that can done about that. The whole theme of the storyline is that the older generation is screwing with the younger generation so naturally the message most of the time is that the younger generation are right whilst the older generation are wrong. If it's anything, it's not so much of a flaw in those specific episodes as it is a flaw in the overall storyline. If there is any moment in the series that shows Ao being undeniably wrong then it will probably come later in the series. You don't break an important theme in a storyline that early into the show, unless you actually want to subvert it. If not, then that's just bad writing. Any attempt at making Ao wrong at this point ought to be very subtle and still have room for him to be right, like we saw when Ao and Fleur go to confront Blanc thinking they've shown him up, only to find out that Blanc was using their sense of righteousness for overall benefit. Ao even admits that they were outsmarted at the end.

The only one who ever really criticizes Ao has been Fleur, but that was only briefly and during the time he didn't really have a true motivation for joining Generation Bleu. They didn't linger on this topic long and it ended as quickly as it began seemingly. Oh and btw, I thought this whole mini arc surrounding this idea was a bit hamfisted considering how assuredly he sounded when he joined Generation Bleu in the first place. This isn't NGE where Shinji has to question why he should help the world or something of that magnitude. He willingly volunteered to go in the first place, for reasons already stated, and then we're supposed to take stock in the fact that he's all of a sudden uncertain and confused?

Give me a break.

I honestly don’t see what the problem is. Fluer and Elena were basically giving Ao a small test to see if he was still willing after encountering a minor barrier which I imagined was an initiation of sorts. It wasn’t meant to be anything big and Fluer and Elena are unsurprised to see him follow them to the changing room.

If it's about children why aren't there more boys piloting? It's hard to not be cynical with the anime industry, so this is an honest to god question. Is there a real reason thematically to have the young girls be the only pilots?

Fleur is apparently a romance interest and Elena could possibly be an older sister. Team Goldilocks has a clue in their name. They’re a sort of reverse of the Goldilocks and three bears. Instead there are three goldilocks and one bear (Incidentally the “bear” died because the three Goldilocks took a risk and went into the Zone which parallels with the story which has generally been about a cautionary tale that imparts a lesson about the hazards of wandering off and exploring unknown territory.

It’s not like it matters really since Fleur and Elena are clearly relevant to the story and Team Goldilocks has only been brought in when relevant. There’s no real cynicism here.

Besides even if there was it doesn’t mean anything anyway and can still be good. You of all people should understand this considering you have Saber as your avatar.

I understand what you mean. I too would like to see at least one extra male pilot just for a bit more balance. But in terms of importance to the storyline, it's not exactly up there.

Don't want to get bogged down in a comparison debate, so lets say I disagree about the ambitious comment and keep this just to E7.

I think the politics in this show are not really all that interesting. It's a backdrop to things much larger at play. It isn't the main focus of the show, as far as I can see, so the machinations of them don't seem to carry any significant wait in the long run. So what if Okinawa is independent and isn't part of Japan. Is there a reason I should care? I just don't see how this will have that much of a real role in the events to be played as this show continues, considering how much importance they seem to placing on them.

Time can prove me wrong, but lets just say for now I'm highly skeptical.

It seems we’re on completely different wavelengths here because it’s always seemed to be that they’re practically banging our heads in with a hammer about how important the politics is considering it’s almost always about the politics. The hawkish Japanese General has been more than important in this storyline and we’ve had enough shots of that American General to know he’s clearly going to be important. I see no reason to be sceptical.

The real problem is that we don't even know what the larger overall story is at the moment. That's why your uncertain about whether it's important or not.

Just to clarify something, do you really count Episode 4 as one of the "pointless" episodes? Even though episode directly follows from the previous 3 and allows Ao to fully come to terms with the events of the previous episodes and say goodbye to Naru?

[Daniel Lind]

Aikawa teases some climax in Episode 16 on twitter.
http://twitter.com/nishi_ogi/status/228118636982857729
(also elaborated on by a following tweet)

明日からのエウレカセブンＡＯの予告～：15／16話の脚本は猪爪さん。「これ最終回ですからそのつもりで 」と発注させていただきました。ある意味、壮絶なクライマックスです
Teasing tomorrow's E7AO: 15-16 are scripted by (Shinichi) Inotsume-san. "Do it like a final episode" was the order. In a way, it's a grand climax.

[duckroll]

The most important point is that Yoshida is still working regularly on the series. He finished his work on ep15-16, and he's working on ep17 and retakes for the DVD/BD version of ep13 now. Visually the show has gotten a lot more impressive since he came back on board.

[ChocoBar9]

Episode 16 has been postponed until August 16th due to the Olympics

[ReddyRedWolf]

No Eureka 7 AO for the next 3 weeks due to Olympics.

Spoiler for Ep15:

Ao is having nightmares about Naru taken away by Truth. He seems to have sleeping problems. He's been taking stims to keep awake. Gazelle being his source.

Team Goldilocks is back. Fleur is acting like Maurice was to Renton not liking Eureka, she even asks Elena if she agrees Elena answers "Its classified" like Mikiru Asahina. Chloe is curious about Ao. Elena probably hiding a smile with her tablet that her "brother" is such a stud.

The Japanese supposed mad first contact with the Secret head, having conference about it. Han Juno and Pippo are there investigating.

Suddenly previous Scub Corals that was taken of Quartz come back to life. Leading to a world wide crisis.

Ao is shot down when he attempts a close quarter combat on a humanoid Secret. Goldilocks is scrambled and Gazelle rescues Ao.

At the hospital it is a reversal. Now it is Chloe at Ao's side when he woke up.

Han hacks the Japanese computers with George. Trying to find out what exactly Secrets are. They are spotted by a guard but is protected by the American colonel to continue what thwy are doing.

Actual first contact with the Secret is made, speaking through Georg, and their intention is to destroy all the active Scub coral around the world. As numbers of humanoid Secrets warp in Gen Blue does not have the resources to cover all bases. Thus Christopher Blanc has a plan to destroy them all. Using the Quartz up the space station as bait. To gather all the Secrets in one place.

[morbosfist]

Well, at least Tron will start airing again next week.

Spoiler:

Poor Ao. You'd think he would have remembered to use that awesome weapon that killed the last one, but maybe the stims are messing with his judgement.

Naru's fighting next time, which should be interesting, and Ao might get transported to E7verse.

[miketyson]

Good episode, ReddyRedWolf's summary is fairly complete. Reactions only, then:

Spoiler for Details:

This is pretty clearly a set-up for a mid-season mini-finale, with a long long wait. August 16th? Ouch.

As for the actual in-show events: the show's world politics is (finally) starting to resemble the "(mostly) us against (most-of) the rest of the world" politics from Eureka 7. Not an exact resemblance yet but could be headed that way pretty fast.

From this episode's content and the preview we seem to be set up for

Spoiler for guessing:

Ao to hop over to another world, perhaps another Eureka? Probably involuntarily / by surprise, too.

Or in short: this is the calm before the storm. The secrets weird me out even more now that it's possible to communicate with them. What would it be like to talk with the jack-in-the-box secret or the ferris-wheel secret from a bit back?

[Marower]

Aw, having to wait that long for the next episode is a bummer