(L) Last Exile -Fam, The Silver Wing-

[Shigan]

Just watched all the episodes up to now in one big go. God, I love this so much. I missed The Last Exile world, and the Fam serie hasn't disappointed this far.

Loved the race in episode 15. Go Fam! That's how you de-stress yourself and the people around you! By soaring away from all the problems through cutting the wind!

Fam reminds me kind of Estelle Bright from Trials in the Sky ^_^.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by Shigan

Just watched all the episodes up to now in one big go. God, I love this so much. I missed The Last Exile world, and the Fam serie hasn't disappointed this far.

Loved the race in episode 15. Go Fam! That's how you de-stress yourself and the people around you! By soaring away from all the problems through cutting the wind!

Fam reminds me kind of Estelle Bright from Trials in the Sky ^_^.

Nice marathon Totally agree. God it's been an awesome ride finally returning to this world, it's been a great show so far.

Yes! Had to reply as I also love Trials in the Sky, awesome JRPG! That's probably another reason why I like her I also really liked Estelle.

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

Spoiler for Hourglass manga:

I'm quite curious about what has happened to the Guild since the Hourglass manga shows the real Guild on Earth seemingly active only 2 years ago since they were going after Alvis and expecting the returnees from our Prester like Claus/Anatoray to have been guided back by their Guild and submit like always, however something must have happened as hinted at by those Guild bodies since Luscinia, as at least a former Guilder, is using a lot of their stuff and they haven't yet made their full presence known or are letting him do it.

Spoiler for Hourglass manga speculation:

My theory is that since the last Exile has returned, the Guild is starting to shut down operations and are retrieving all the remaining Exile keys for "debriefing" (i.e. partial memory wipe so they don't remember being keys). Why? Perhaps the Guild is developing some sort of post-Exile mythology. Might explain why all of the returned Exiles are cocooned and most common people have no idea of what an Exile's purpose is. Since Anatoray's return was not Guild supervised, it's gonna throw a wrench into this plan.

The Guild is showing a lot of respect for Alvis (she is Guild nobility), and perhaps it is all a case of mistaken intent - a Guild noble would not normally associate with a group of "commoners", so she is being held against her will. The Guild does not seem to be hostile unless there is direct interference with their mission to retrieve Alvis.

[Myssa Rei]

Dangermouse and Joachim1167: I honestly want to have some things explained in-show this time around, and not wait around for several years (at LEAST six years) to have said questions in an ARTBOOK that's likely not going to get international distribution... Like obvious stuff about the wherabouts of the Earth Guild during Fam, or little details like the identity of Augusta Sara's father (c'mon, there HAS to be a reason why the Guild sent two bodyguards to protect Farahnaz).

[MeoTwister5]

I always assumed that the reason it took the artbooks to fill in the gaps for the first series was that they didn't think LE would be that hugely popular, thus they didn't need to explain plot holes and stuff. Now given the relative popularity and pedigree season 2 has, there's no excuse not to put effort in explaining things.

[DangerMouse]

Yeah, also I think some of it would have been difficult to include due to Delphine's manipulations and Dio and Delphine were how we got most of our Guild-based knowledge and purpose. I agree with you that now given the relative popularity and pedigree season 2 has there's every opportunity to address everything that they can regarding the story and the new story and even fill in any gaps like for example how they did by including Luscinia's speech about the real purpose of the Exiles for those that didn't quite follow the ending of S1. As such I hope they'll address the lingering questions particularly about the Guild on Earth before the end of the show since that's one of my biggest questions. I agree Myssa Rei I'd like to know the details of specifically why the Guild sent two bodyguards to Sara's mother (or if it has to do with her father or Farahnaz herself or something about Ades we don't know yet), given Luscinia's prominence in the story I think there's still time.

Still, though they didn't address everything the first series did explain and hint at a surprising amount of the details regarding the backstory and bigger picture of the Guild and the Exile's purpose, and Prester, in restoring the Earth, such things did not really require the artbook to get a feel for even if it expanded on the details.

I've never seen the actual book only the awesomely detailed LE wiki, but I thought that the main things that the artbook clarified and expanded on were how the survival of Dio was accomplished to go along with that piece of art that showed Dio's foot and shadow on Earth approaching the group that was included with the DVDs, even way before season 2 was decided to be made and used his survival, and perhaps a few more concrete details on the overall Exile/Guild/Earth Restoration plan because some of it wasn't directly related to the first series to explain like that there were multiple Presters and Exiles created since the entire story took place on only one and the true purpose of the Exile wasn't revealed until the finale and had purposefully been kept a mystery until near the end, and the fact that the Guild was not just limited to Prester and perhaps a few more details on the Guild's true role and what they should have been doing if Delphine had been doing what she was supposed to.

What else did the artbook/infobook cover?

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

Spoiler for Hourglass manga speculation:

My theory is that since the last Exile has returned, the Guild is starting to shut down operations and are retrieving all the remaining Exile keys for "debriefing" (i.e. partial memory wipe so they don't remember being keys). Why? Perhaps the Guild is developing some sort of post-Exile mythology. Might explain why all of the returned Exiles are cocooned and most common people have no idea of what an Exile's purpose is. Since Anatoray's return was not Guild supervised, it's gonna throw a wrench into this plan.

The Guild is showing a lot of respect for Alvis (she is Guild nobility), and perhaps it is all a case of mistaken intent - a Guild noble would not normally associate with a group of "commoners", so she is being held against her will. The Guild does not seem to be hostile unless there is direct interference with their mission to retrieve Alvis.

Spoiler:

Could be.

That's certainly possible, that's a good point you're right it's worth noting that under normal circumstances Alvis would not be expected to be associating with commoners.

[Mirrinus]

Ah, finally managed to catch up after a month of missing this due to med school stuff...

Anyway, I find it kind of amusing that people are claiming that Fam is kind of pointless to the story at large. That's because when I first started watching this show, I joked to my friends that it was basically the plot of Final Fantasy XII. And, well, given what a lot of people seem to think about Vaan's role as main character there...

[Soconfused]

Fam has reached insufferable levels with me. Why was this lowly pleb even at a goddamn war council to begin with? The Glacies chick should of ran over and drop kicked her out of a window, the roaring cheers from all present would be heard from miles away, surely. Then she went and added a loli queen to be to her Harem of doe eyed admirers. This is just too much...

Originally Posted by Mirrinus

Ah, finally managed to catch up after a month of missing this due to med school stuff...

Anyway, I find it kind of amusing that people are claiming that Fam is kind of pointless to the story at large. That's because when I first started watching this show, I joked to my friends that it was basically the plot of Final Fantasy XII. And, well, given what a lot of people seem to think about Vaan's role as main character there...

From what I heard, Vaan wasn't originaly the main character for FFXII, but was later changed to Vaan because it's japan and they do this kind of thing. Actually, wiki explains it.

Spoiler for wiki:

Basch was initially meant to be the main character of the story, but the focus was eventually shifted to Vaan and Penelo when the two characters were created later in development.[66] The development team explained that their previous game, Vagrant Story, which featured a "strong man in his prime" as the protagonist had been unsuccessful and unpopular; the change regarding Final Fantasy XII from a "big and tough" protagonist to a more effeminate one was thus decided after targeting demographics were considered

I'm sure this is also the case for LE. The main character was surely an awesome manly/seductive van ship pilot who doesn't afraid of anything, but this was perceived as threatening to the average Otaku and they need those blu ray sales, so the Moe-ness was injected into the series in the form of pretty much every main character.

[FateAnomaly]

Fam is the sky pirates representative.

[Graveyard Duck]

I guess I belong to the small minority here. This is the first episode in which I want to praise Fam's behavior, rather than dismissing it as simplistic and detrimental.

First, the conference: Fam did not interrupt a war council. He interrupted a lynch mob. While it was imprudent, it was a necessary interruption. These alleged leaders do not have the tact to refrain from crying for the blood of the sister of one of their allies. They allow their excitement to overcome the true objective of the conference--to discuss plans to defeat Luscinia. They do not deserve the respect that would be normally accorded to leaders in an important discussion.

Second, Sara: Fam gives her a much needed influence. Luscinia is obsessed with revenge and a one world order. His first priority, as we've seen, is to repatriot the displaced Ades people. Vasant is not bloodthirsty, but her education for Sara is entirely practical: Witness the contrast between Fam's stories of the Grand Race and Vasant's heavy textbooks, one of which titled Glacies: History & Customs. Sara is a 10 year old child. She needs a personal ideal to drive her--something more than revenge or practicality and something that's not merely to live up to her mother's legacy. Fam's stories of the Grand Race is perfect to give Sara a personal dream.

This episode has been an excellent use of Fam as she is. Growth was not necessary, nor would it have made Fam's role better. Let Millia be the maturing protagonist and Fam be the inspiration idealist. This episode shows to me that it can work quite well.

[hiroshi5]

Does anyone know how many episodes this series will run to (including or excluding the recap episodes)? I haven't seen any announcement mentioning more than 15 episodes + recap. The last-seen episode is obviously not the end.

Yes, I'm still watching. Purely because it looks great on a big TV screen, some of the main characters are kinda cute and it's fun.

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by Graveyard Duck

I guess I belong to the small minority here. This is the first episode in which I want to praise Fam's behavior, rather than dismissing it as simplistic and detrimental.

First, the conference: Fam did not interrupt a war council. He interrupted a lynch mob. While it was imprudent, it was a necessary interruption. These alleged leaders do not have the tact to refrain from crying for the blood of the sister of one of their allies. They allow their excitement to overcome the true objective of the conference--to discuss plans to defeat Luscinia. They do not deserve the respect that would be normally accorded to leaders in an important discussion.

Second, Sara: Fam gives her a much needed influence. Luscinia is obsessed with revenge and a one world order. His first priority, as we've seen, is to repatriot the displaced Ades people. Vasant is not bloodthirsty, but her education for Sara is entirely practical: Witness the contrast between Fam's stories of the Grand Race and Vasant's heavy textbooks, one of which titled Glacies: History & Customs. Sara is a 10 year old child. She needs a personal ideal to drive her--something more than revenge or practicality and something that's not merely to live up to her mother's legacy. Fam's stories of the Grand Race is perfect to give Sara a personal dream.

This episode has been an excellent use of Fam as she is. Growth was not necessary, nor would it have made Fam's role better. Let Millia be the maturing protagonist and Fam be the inspiration idealist. This episode shows to me that it can work quite well.

Could not have said it better myself. The Sky Pirates representative has become the moral compass of the upcoming campaign. I'm cool with that.

I was wondering about the title of the book Vasant was holding. It has the same cover as the book Sorush was flipping through earlier in the episode. Hmmmm...

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by hiroshi5

Does anyone know how many episodes this series will run to (including or excluding the recap episodes)?

21 + 2 recaps + 1 intro (episode 0).

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

I was wondering about the title of the book Vasant was holding. It has the same cover as the book Sorush was flipping through earlier in the episode. Hmmmm...

Sorush is probably trying to find tips on getting a Glacians girl...

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Sorush is probably trying to find tips on getting a Glacians girl...

I don't blame him. I can imagine a scene during the Grand Race at series end where a grinning Sorush (with happy tears coming out of his eyes) proclaims in a loud, lusty voice "the war is over!" as he gives a startled Dian and company a big bear hug...and promptly gets his teeth kicked in.

On a side note. I love the look on Primula's face during Fam's outburst at the assembly. It looked like someone just kicked her puppy.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

Could not have said it better myself. The Sky Pirates representative has become the moral compass of the upcoming campaign. I'm cool with that.

I was wondering about the title of the book Vasant was holding. It has the same cover as the book Sorush was flipping through earlier in the episode. Hmmmm...

Yeah I think that's a very valid take by Graveyard Duck, I'm good with that too.

Originally Posted by azarhal

Sorush is probably trying to find tips on getting a Glacians girl...

Heh.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Wow Fam got shut down hard multiple times this last episode. It's consistent with her character to always be standing up for and trying to look out for Millia, but she got a good and I think well needed lesson from the latter on when it's time to hold her tongue. There were multiple times where Fam could have easily sabotaged this tense and loose alliance with her loud mouth, but fortunately Millia was always there to say the right things or just say nothing at all in order to see that the strategy talks went smoothly and everyone ended up on the same page. Her willingness to take all that abuse towards herself and her family just to make sure the alliance works is the kind of stoic quiet strength that has really made me a fan of her character over the course of this series, though if I were her I wouldn't be taking Fam to strategy meetings anymore since she clearly doesn't belong in them and should just stick to flying and sharing the lighter conversations like she did with Augusta near the end of the episode. That's her place, not as a leader or frankly even as a retainer since retainers are supposed to be seen and not heard.

[Fandal]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Wow Fam got shut down hard multiple times this last episode. It's consistent with her character to always be standing up for and trying to look out for Millia, but she got a good and I think well needed lesson from the latter on when it's time to hold her tongue. There were multiple times where Fam could have easily sabotaged this tense and loose alliance with her loud mouth, but fortunately Millia was always there to say the right things or just say nothing at all in order to see that the strategy talks went smoothly and everyone ended up on the same page. Her willingness to take all that abuse towards herself and her family just to make sure the alliance works is the kind of stoic quiet strength that has really made me a fan of her character over the course of this series, though if I were her I wouldn't be taking Fam to strategy meetings anymore since she clearly doesn't belong in them and should just stick to flying and sharing the lighter conversations like she did with Augusta near the end of the episode. That's her place, not as a leader or frankly even as a retainer since retainers are supposed to be seen and not heard.

Nah, Fam did the right thing. Millia reminds me of those "yes men" managers that always stay silent, avoid conflict, and so on. She still has a lot to grow to reach Fam's level. Fam attacks the white elephants in the room to obtain a goal. Everyone else tries to avoid it and pretend everything is A-ok! Useful for the short term but usually compounds itself until white elephants charges out and destroys everything.

That's the difference between civil wars that continue on forever (see Africa) and civil wars that eventually stop (see Civil Wars that Stop). Civil wars like here in the US stopped because people eventually said to one another "I'm tired of fighting, I just want to go home, eat, relax on the couch, and so on". This is even why WWII stopped. The war could have kept going on to places like the USSR but the people just got tired of fighting wanting to go home and watch some baseball. Things even more simpler than what Fam wants.

If you want to see the "maturity" of what happens by doing the "adult" thing, go to Africa. Maybe just look at the past and see how often "these people" almost drove the Second Civil War here in the US. Luckily for us, most people here just wanted to do simple things and continue their lives rather than go down this tragic road.

I suppose the biggest problem is we wanted an epic show where everyone get's more and more depressed vs the more boring but more realistic storytelling of why wars stop. People just get tired of fighting and want to go race!

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Fandal

Nah, Fam did the right thing. Millia reminds me of those "yes men" managers that always stay silent, avoid conflict, and so on. She still has a lot to grow to reach Fam's level. Fam attacks the white elephants in the room to obtain a goal. Everyone else tries to avoid it and pretend everything is A-ok! Useful for the short term but usually compounds itself until white elephants charges out and destroys everything.

Nobody in the room was pretending everything was A-Ok except for Fam IMO. You have to face facts, you've got a tense alliance between factions that wanted nothing to do with each other a few episodes ago and all of them have legitimate cause to hate Lilliana's guts since she basically helped to ruin their countries.

In spite of that nobody was actually coming after Millia since she had nothing to do with it and yeah I guess they didn't consider her feelings much and spoke out of turn as well, but that's just how it goes and the stakes are far bigger than just one leader of the alliances feelings. Sometimes you have to be willing to make some sacrifices and take some hate being directed at somebody you care about in order to make things work.

Again the stakes are far too high to lose this alliance and any hope of ever beating Luscinia's faction. Millia realized that, Fam did not and her own usual simplistic way of thinking only allowed her to see that her friend was being attacked and not the bigger picture like Millia and Giselle did. Noble? Perhaps. Well-timed? Anything but. It just strikes me as another example of how little she has come along despite all that has happened to her compared to Millia and Giselle who have both grown and matured quite a bit since the start of the series. It's like nothing phases her at all and nothing gets through to her and she expects everyone to just be able to get along despite all that's happened beforehand. Those events at the grand race must have literally defined her very philosophy on life in a way that is completely unbreakable, yet she doesn't even seem to understand the politics and motivations behind anything that has happened around her in her life. Even Millia the once sheltered and spoiled princess is starting to understand the other side a little bit in seeing those indigenous Turanian people that will finally be able to return to their homeland and with an "Oh god what did our family do to these people" kind of face.

That's the difference between civil wars that continue on forever (see Africa) and civil wars that eventually stop (see Civil Wars that Stop). Civil wars like here in the US stopped because people eventually said to one another "I'm tired of fighting, I just want to go home, eat, relax on the couch, and so on". This is even why WWII stopped. The war could have kept going on to places like the USSR but the people just got tired of fighting wanting to go home and watch some baseball. Things even more simpler than what Fam wants.

Actually both those wars stopped when somebody was finally able to land a decisive blow against their enemy. In the Civil War's case it was the defeat and surrender of the south's most brilliant general Robert E. Lee to Ullyses Grant that finally put an end to it and in WWII's case it was the occupation of Berlin by the Soviets and the suicide of Hitler completely rubbing out the Nazi movements momentum for good and the formal surrender of Japan after the atomic bomb attacks that led to the end. Neither war ended without sacrifice, the allies didn't always get along (read up on Robert S. Patton and Bernard Montgomery's relationship or lack thereof) and nobody really expected them to, but when the chips were down and when it really mattered the allies had each others backs (not so much the Axis). That's just how it goes.

If you want to see the "maturity" of what happens by doing the "adult" thing, go to Africa. Maybe just look at the past and see how often "these people" almost drove the Second Civil War here in the US. Luckily for us, most people here just wanted to do simple things and continue their lives rather than go down this tragic road.

Are you referring to the near constant civil wars and petty warlords screwing over the common people? Yeah there's no maturity there and it's pretty awful, but that situation looks nothing like the one in Last Exile. There are no alliances or pacts there, it's literally just you join a warlord faction for protection and fight their war or you die. Truly unfortunate stuff.

I suppose the biggest problem is we wanted an epic show where everyone get's more and more depressed vs the more boring but more realistic storytelling of why wars stop. People just get tired of fighting and want to go race!

I just would have expected at least some growth in Fam's character by now considering everyone else in the show has had a legitimate character arc where something in their lives or outlook on life changed. It's weird for a main character not to have that. Maybe for her the Grand Race was that defining event, but I still expected something else.

[~BC~]

Millia deciding to hold her peace during one meeting does not make her a "yes man". She understands there's a time and place for everything. Not to mention there was nothing she could say that wouldn't sound like she was defending what her sister did. Let the representatives blow off some steam; Liliana's fate was not going to be determined right then and there anyway.

If the writers wanted me to sympathize with Fam at that moment they should've left out the parts where she was being a tactless nitwit around the Augusta. Some decent character development wouldn't hurt either.

And while I'm still enjoying this series it's not well written enough to warrant comparisons with real world politics, IMO.

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by Fandal

That's the difference between civil wars that continue on forever (see Africa) and civil wars that eventually stop (see Civil Wars that Stop). Civil wars like here in the US stopped because people eventually said to one another "I'm tired of fighting, I just want to go home, eat, relax on the couch, and so on". This is even why WWII stopped. The war could have kept going on to places like the USSR but the people just got tired of fighting wanting to go home and watch some baseball. Things even more simpler than what Fam wants.

It's quite a bit more complicated than that, but I do see what you're getting at...especially concerning the guys in the trenches (on both sides) who are doing the actual fighting.