Fate/Zero - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Craxuan]

You mean, turned into a immortal vampire. Emiya's research was doomed to fail from the very beginning; there is no way at all to bypass the bloodlust. The only one who doesn't have it was the Princess, and even she has fallen since the first moment she tasted blood.

[jeroz]

a drug with a lethal side effects even at the proper dose is a drug not worth taking.

[DragoZERO]

I think we need a Type-Moon thread so we can discuss all of this openly since we are really going outside of Fate now.

[blue_sora]

Previews for Ep 19

Spoiler for Ep 19: More Kiritsugu flashback:

[Craxuan]

Just a question here that I found interesting: How many of you think that Rin Tohsaka will despise/look down on Kariya for what he has done for Sakura?

[Theorder14]

Does she even know that he's partticipating the war >.>?

[Craxuan]

She does not. This is just an assumption.

[Haak]

Well assuming she completely follows in her father's footsteps without any conflict of interest then she probably would.

[DragoZERO]

It's a prequel after the sequel, so I say she does not.

[Archon_Wing]

I was wondering if this was the right anime when I first watched it, but it was a good episode. And damn zombie girl eating chickens. Kitsurugi finally has some background and shit so we can feel bad for him and can note about why he's so dead inside. The relationship with his father also cites an interesting comparison and contrast with Kirei so this sets up the tail end that will probably be starting really soon. And the soundtrack was well done to say the least.7/10

[jeroz]

I just realised something

If the drug was already missing in the morning (Kerry waking up), and he found the bloodthirsty Shirley in the evening.....

what the fk happened during the day? Did his father just let it slip and see what possible results might come out, instead of trying to stop Shirley?

[Qilin]

I couldn't help but stare at their teeth every time "Kerry" and Shirley said something.

But seriously, it was nice seeing Cornelius Alba again. So if we assume that Kara no Kyoukai happens within the same universe, that would place this little flashback somewhere before he allied himself with Araya Souren.

Anyway, the episode struck me as a nice parallel to the classic zombie outbreak set-up, and it was fantastic.

[mAc Chaos]

Originally Posted by jeroz

I just realised something

If the drug was already missing in the morning (Kerry waking up), and he found the bloodthirsty Shirley in the evening.....

what the fk happened during the day? Did his father just let it slip and see what possible results might come out, instead of trying to stop Shirley?

From the way he reacted it looked like he was just like, "Oh, looks like there's gonna be another zombie outbreak. Oh well. Time to get packing."

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

From the way he reacted it looked like he was just like, "Oh, looks like there's gonna be another zombie outbreak. Oh well. Time to get packing."

It was more like: "Oh she took pills?" "Well at least now I know they don't work, I didn't really plan on her taking the stuff but anyway time to pack up and continue my morally questionable research elsewhere."

[Touko]

Originally Posted by Craxuan

Just a question here that I found interesting: How many of you think that Rin Tohsaka will despise/look down on Kariya for what he has done for Sakura?

Spoiler:

No, she would thank Uncle Kariya.

Uncle Kariya tried to do what she attempted as well. Except Uncle Kariya failed.


Uncle Kariya is the besto.

[Guido]

In the sixteenth episode, Saber asked Kiritsugu what happened to him to have abandoned the ideal of becoming a Hero of Justice that he once craved so much to become.

Two episodes into the present, that question is answered in the eighteenth one.

The irony of all happens in this episode when Shirely asks Kerry what kind of adult would he want to become when he grows up, which was retroactively answered back two episodes back from this one.

This was the story of the boy who one day would grow-up to become the infamous Magus Killer, the boy who likely made a wish to become a Hero of Justice to save all the peoples around the world but that desire crumbled to dust after the boy, Kerry, within a single day lost all of that that he cared so much and committed a sin in order to stop the bloodshed from spreading further.

What this episode is so very infamous is that the death flags were immediately introduced almost from the start with the most noticeable one involving Shirley in concern to the story of the girl who was turned into a crab due to offending the Gods for stealing from them their offering.

Shirley was cute but at the same time pure-hearted and possesed good intentions to attempt using Kerry's father methods to find a possible cure to "death" itself on humans.
But that was the problem, that she had "good intentions", and for her naivety she paid a price to experiment with knowledge and research beyond the scope of both her expectations and control.
For that she ended up cursed, unleashing a deadly plague that almost consumed the entire island had not been for both the Mage Association and the Church interfering. However, those two groups didn't interfere out of a gesture of help and generosity.
As Natalia explained to Kerry, the Mages Association interfered to protect their secrets and their agenda, while the Church do so to impose their pressence and let it known to rogue mages that they would not tolerate the uprisings of their heresies.

As for Natalia, she is simply pure GAR-Badassness reincarnated. If she's a hitman salesman, then she does really mean business when it comes to killing and cleaning up the job.

[Archer]

Rewatching this episode again, and there's some pretty good imagery and symbolism scattered about, all of which has to do with a certain aspect of Kiritsugu's character.

The knife that Shirley uses is an obvious one. The river that Shirley and Kiritsugu have their conversation at is pretty evident, too. But what I really like is the one from the very first minute of the episode, where Kiritsugu dares to challenge the cliff that nobody else would jump off from. That entire scene is Kiritsugu summed up in a nutshell, and it's noteworthy considering this is the first thing the audience gets to know about Kiritsugu before anything else in this episode. A great way to start off a pretty great episode.

[willyvereb]

Originally Posted by Craxuan

Even the strongest among Dead Apostles have problems dealing with just one powerful Executor, and you must remember that Executors are ultimately just human, which makes them ridiculously strong. Shirley don't stand a fly's chance at all. Someone like Kirei would've wiped out the entire island by himself (Though some might escape, so they sent more to make sure NO ONE escapes).

You confuse the Executors with the Burial Agency.

Regular Executors aren't that powerful. True, they have the ideal weapon to deal with vampires but most of them are (like you said) just humans who underwent extensive training. A true Dead Apostle would murder them in a single combat before they would realize it. Sure they can deal with heretics like the Dead (ghouls) or some opposing mages but they aren't that strong. Kirei's abilities are more like an anomaly compared to a regular Executor.


Speaking of Burial Agency, even Ciel has some difficulties to fight against a Dead Apostle, not to mention the strongest of them (Dead Apostle Ancestors).

So to be finally on-topic: No, a single Exacutor couldn't do the job. They're more like the Church's spec ops than blatant supersoldiers. The numbers were a must to eliminate the "vampires".

Originally Posted by Haak

You make a good point about it being natural for Kiritsugu. Kiritsugu has two Origins, one of which is "Severing". That would have likely been a factor in his decision to kill his father also.

How about both?
Severing and Binding.

Kiritsugu "severed" his relationship with his father and "bound" himself to Natalia.

As the novel explained in the battle against Kayneth, "severing and binding" doesn't equal "destruction and rebirth".
Even though the severed ends are connected again, it results in something completely different. Just like the knot on a reconnected cable.

[Craxuan]

Once I might've thought that too, but recent readings on Visual Novels like 魔法使いの夜 changed my mind.

... Almost everyone who claims to work for the Saint Church is mad in one way or another. >.> And that makes em' terrifying. In many cases, it makes them terrifyingly strong. Can't exactly put spoilers for that here, but yeah.

EDIT: I'm remember reading in the VN that Kiritsugu's Origin has something to do with self-sacrifice or self-destruction.

[Touko]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by willyvereb

You confuse the Executors with the Burial Agency.

Regular Executors aren't that powerful. True, they have the ideal weapon to deal with vampires but most of them are (like you said) just humans who underwent extensive training. A true Dead Apostle would murder them in a single combat before they would realize it. Sure they can deal with heretics like the Dead (ghouls) or some opposing mages but they aren't that strong. Kirei's abilities are more like an anomaly compared to a regular Executor.


Speaking of Burial Agency, even Ciel has some difficulties to fight against a Dead Apostle, not to mention the strongest of them (Dead Apostle Ancestors).

So to be finally on-topic: No, a single Exacutor couldn't do the job. They're more like the Church's spec ops than blatant supersoldiers. The numbers were a must to eliminate the "vampires".

Nope. Ciel has NO trouble with Dead Apostles. One single of her thrown Black Keys can kill a Dead Apostle multiple times.

黒鍵（武装）
　聖堂教会で使われる悪魔払いの護符。剣としての精度は低く、投擲専用の武装、つまり弾丸である。十字架を 模していて、基督教徒だった死徒の体に無理やり人間の頃の自然法則を叩き込み、もとの肉体に洗礼しなおして 塵に還す摂理の鍵。シエルのものは一本で通常の死徒ならば6度滅ぼしうる。

Six times, to be precise.

Even Kotomine lays waste to Dead Apostles with his Bajiquan.

Even regular Executors are a force to be reckoned with. They are the shock troopers of the Church. The ones in the Burial Agency stomp Dead Apostles like ants. Only the Dead Apostle Ancestors trouble the Church.

Ciel herself would have swept that whole mess. Except the Church does not use its big guns on trivial tasks such as that.