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Old 2004-10-11, 13:50   Link #1
wazzup
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Did alchemy exist?

i typed "define:alchemy" in google and got a few results that got me to believe that Alchemists really existed who believed in the myth of philisopher's stone in the medieval times.. is thits true?? i thought everything in fma was just a work of fiction and that there wasnt any element of truth in it

for example : " ancient attempt to create the Philosopher's Stone and mutable gold. In the West, mainly of Egyptian origin and Arabic elaboration, but also with Gnostic roots, especially in the idea that the world soul was trapped in matter. Beginning with the prima materia, the alchemist heated, cooked, and washed the substance until it passed through the four stages of nigredo, albedo, cinitritas, and rubedo and became the Stone. Jung saw the opus alchymicum, the work of alchemy, as an unconscious projection of the process of individuation, which starts with an unconscious content (prima materia) and end with the realization of the Self symbol (Philosopher's Stone). "


thanks
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Old 2004-10-11, 14:00   Link #2
ccardoso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzup
i typed "define:alchemy" in google and got a few results that got me to believe that Alchemists really existed who believed in the myth of philisopher's stone in the medieval times.. is thits true?? i thought everything in fma was just a work of fiction and that there wasnt any element of truth in it

for example : " ancient attempt to create the Philosopher's Stone and mutable gold. In the West, mainly of Egyptian origin and Arabic elaboration, but also with Gnostic roots, especially in the idea that the world soul was trapped in matter. Beginning with the prima materia, the alchemist heated, cooked, and washed the substance until it passed through the four stages of nigredo, albedo, cinitritas, and rubedo and became the Stone. Jung saw the opus alchymicum, the work of alchemy, as an unconscious projection of the process of individuation, which starts with an unconscious content (prima materia) and end with the realization of the Self symbol (Philosopher's Stone). "


thanks
Yes, in the reality there is the Law of Conservation of matter too!!!
I ask myself where is the Gate!!!! ^_^
I want to trasmute my processor in a newer one!
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Old 2004-10-11, 14:18   Link #3
Komataguri
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Alchemy is the science that predates modern Chemistry


Or, to be exact, Alchemy eventually became modern Chemistry.


Alchemy, such as lead into gold, is possible. However, THe energy required is of enormous magnitude.


To change a one ounce piece of lead to gold, You have to have something on the order of all the energy in a large star to be able to cause the trasmutation.
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Old 2004-10-11, 14:24   Link #4
Yuiichi
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Yup yup, Alchemy was basicly ancient chemistry... only on a different scale.

Also, heres a way for anyone to turn lead into gold ^_^

First, you buy a gun, and make some bullets out of lead. Second, you hold up a bank for gold. Third, you spend your loot on making an even better weapon ^_^

Sounds profitable doesn't it? (Kids, don't try that method at home o.0)
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Old 2004-10-11, 14:54   Link #5
Tiamat's Disciple
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzup
i typed "define:alchemy" in google and got a few results that got me to believe that Alchemists really existed who believed in the myth of philisopher's stone in the medieval times.. is thits true?? i thought everything in fma was just a work of fiction and that there wasnt any element of truth in it

for example : " ancient attempt to create the Philosopher's Stone and mutable gold. In the West, mainly of Egyptian origin and Arabic elaboration, but also with Gnostic roots, especially in the idea that the world soul was trapped in matter. Beginning with the prima materia, the alchemist heated, cooked, and washed the substance until it passed through the four stages of nigredo, albedo, cinitritas, and rubedo and became the Stone. Jung saw the opus alchymicum, the work of alchemy, as an unconscious projection of the process of individuation, which starts with an unconscious content (prima materia) and end with the realization of the Self symbol (Philosopher's Stone). "


thanks
As has already been said alchemy was the original chemistry, though in truth its a lot deeper than that. Alchemy is still practicesd today by variouse tribes and pagan/wiccan traditions.

For more information read some of the texts held here There's some good research here if your into it, sifting the truth from all the chaff thats held within. Alsways bear in mind who the author is, the times they lived in, and try and suspend the modern way of thinking.
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Old 2004-10-11, 15:17   Link #6
Guido
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Just to put in simple words, if ancient Alchemy didn't existed we wouldn't had modern Chemistry and that will have had a negative impact in our entire technological and industrial progress as well as for our modern civilizations.
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Old 2004-10-11, 15:21   Link #7
Ombrenuit
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Talking

how naive Alchemy has a rich history, and virtually everything in full metal alchemist is stolen from one myth or another
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Old 2004-10-11, 18:33   Link #8
MidoriShinobi
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Yes, Alchemy did exsist. In fact, I have a book on it, and the creation of homonculi.
I'll type it up for you guys. Here we go! *cracks knuckles* let's see here..

Even today, the alchemists of medieval times remain famous for their supposed, though unconfirmed, ability to transmute base metals into gold, using the fabled philosopher's stone. Less well remembered, yet even more controversial, is their alleged creation of living humanoids, known as homunculi. Alchemists claimed that the culture required for the growth of homunculi contained several biological fluids such as sputum or egg-white, and sometimes inorganic fluids, like dew; but the two substances most commonly cited as essential were human blood and semen, both which are widely believed to harbour the vital essence of life. Also required was horse manure, whose heat-releasing properties were utilized to incubate the medium. Bearing in mind that all of the above ingredients are readlily otainable, why was the production of homonculi a skill restricted to alchemists? The answer is that the recipes always seemed to contain one vital ingrediant that was exceptionally complex and difficult to prepare. Here's the recipe, taken from another book.

The semen and blood are regarded as carriers of the pneumamaterial prima, or elemental matter of which, in alchemical theory, all substances were ultimately composed. A man's semen must be put into a hermetically - sealed retort, buried in horse manure for 40 days, and "magnetized". During this time, it begins to live and move, and at the end of the 40 days it resembles a human form, but is transparent and without a body. It must now be fed daily with the arcanum of human blood (arcanum sanguinis hominis), and be maintained at the constant temperature of a mare's womb, for a period of 40 weeks, and it will grow into a human child, with all its limbs developed, as normal as any child born of a woman, except that it will be much smaller. It may be raised and educated like any other child, until he grows older and obtains reason and intellect, and is able to take care of himself. There are various forms of homunculi. Some, as described above by Paracelsus, are fully created. Some, as described in Yeats' poem, are dolls serving as vessels harboring a spirit or entity by means of blood and/or spermae. Many homunculi have difficulty with movement. This is probably due to the mechanical make-up of the figure. Some simply sit there and hold conversation with slight, robotic gestures. Below, I've written out the poem that the author mentioned for everyone. Alchemy, is a dark, sad, art. In it's own right.

The Dolls
-W.B. Yeats-

A doll in the doll-maker's house
Looks at the cradle and bawls,

"That is an insult to us."

But the oldest of all the dolls,
Who had seen, being kept for show,
Generations of her sort,
Out-screams the whole shelf,

"Although
There's not a man can report
Evil of this place,
The man and the woman bring
Hither, to our disgrace,
A noisy and filthy thing."

Hearing him groan and stretch
The doll-maker's wife is aware
Her husband has heard the wretch,
And crouched by the arm of his chair,
She murmurs into his ear,
Head upon shoulder leant,

"My dear, my dear, Oh dear,
It was an accident."


I hope I was of some help. Sorry for the long post.
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Old 2004-10-11, 19:37   Link #9
Komataguri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidoriShinobi
.....
Super nice post!
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Old 2004-10-11, 20:10   Link #10
Grona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuiichi
Also, heres a way for anyone to turn lead into gold ^_^

First, you buy a gun, and make some bullets out of lead. Second, you hold up a bank for gold. Third, you spend your loot on making an even better weapon ^_^

Sounds profitable doesn't it? (Kids, don't try that method at home o.0)
I beleave thats called "modern Alchemy"
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Old 2004-10-12, 00:47   Link #11
dreamless
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well, I guess we can never be sure if Alchemy as lead to gold or something like philosopher's stone exist or not, there are supernatural phenomenons, there are miracles, so maybe there are alchemy beyond our current understanding of the physics laws and things... the possibility is there, despite how unlikely it is...

Alchemy, as a form of science study in history, surely existed.
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Old 2004-10-12, 01:53   Link #12
hooliganj
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Isaac Newton was really into alchemy. I say if the guy who created calculus couldn't make lead into gold, then it probably wasn't going to happen.

The philosopher's stone is an old, old myth, and FMA isn't even the first anime to borrow the idea. The first Slayers adventure also revolved around a legendary power-boosting stone.
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Old 2004-10-12, 05:03   Link #13
Nezumi
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Actually, alchemy has existed for very very long. Well no that loong thou. There was one guy called Paraselsus who was the one who created a living breathing Homunculus, this sort of creature is called Homunculus beacuse he named his creature Homunculus. But Paraselsus also wanted to create the Philosophers Stone, he said it was the ultim ate element and as said before, it could turn iron into gold. The law of equivelent trade didnt apply whit this he said. But he never made it, and theres no proof of the existence of an Homunculus. Yet there are painted pictures from that time, pictures od the Homunculus. And as seen in these pictures, it has really large hands and luips. The head is also quite long and wide. Of course it doesnt look like your everyday human and it was about 4 inches tall.


Paraselsus also healed people whit the plauge. Using potions he made from parts of the one to be healeds body. Paraselsus was from, Switzerland but was kicked ouyt of many academies and towns beacuse of his so called "ocultist" ways.

People still study his art, and it sort of lives on still but its very very unknown to many. I cant tell if all this is myth or legend, but it is possible to create a human, but as seen in Full Metal Alchemist, i think it would only be a living doll, no soul nor mind.
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Old 2004-10-12, 06:21   Link #14
er2125
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Lightbulb

Paracelsius "claimed" to have created a homunculus. That doesn't mean that he had actually created one.

Paracelsus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus

Homunculus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus

Think what you want, but alchemy is a precursor to modern science.

And it has caused many to abandon their traditional jobs to study alchemy : To get free gold. No work and therefore no food. Alchemy caused poverty to the people.

It have been associated with cults and supernatural powers, but that only is caused by the lack of understanding in science.

Hence, there are no superpowers whatsovever. Sorry to disappoint you guys - but that's the way it is.

Equivalent trade : You want it, go work for it.




Quote:
And as seen in these pictures, it has really large hands and luips. The head is also quite long and wide. Of course it doesnt look like your everyday human and it was about 4 inches tall.
Anyway - that was something else.

The homunculus is also commonly used to describe the distorted human figure drawn to reflect the relative sensory space our body parts represent on the cerebral cortex. The lips, hands, feet and sex organs are considerably more sensitive than other parts of the body, so the homunculus has grossly large lips, hands and genitals. - Wikipedia

Homunculus was said to be exactly identical to an adult human except in size.
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Old 2004-10-12, 07:52   Link #15
Whisky
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By the way... Hohenheim was a famous alchemist and pharmacist in our world, also known as 'Paracelsus'
Even Dante did exist... although he (!) wasn't an alchemist, but an very famous italian poet
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Old 2004-10-12, 08:37   Link #16
pyu
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My chemistry lecturer used to joke that alchemists of old were too busy to turn lead into gold and seeped in romanticism and the mythology of the Philosopher's Stone to do anything useful.

It was only when someone started using scientific methods (recording down experiments, their results, etc) that alchemey slowly turned into modern chemistry.
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Old 2004-10-12, 23:30   Link #17
davidlionheartZ
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Holy crap!

homunculus were little people thats a scary thought 4 inches man! ::no thank you:: ill stick with my anime humonculy
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Old 2004-10-13, 03:41   Link #18
Zidane
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Anyone try to create one yet? Nasty sons of b.....s :P
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Old 2004-10-13, 07:45   Link #19
Joe Dalton
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Yeah I created one. Their meat is damned tasty.
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Old 2004-10-13, 09:23   Link #20
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisky
By the way... Hohenheim was a famous alchemist and pharmacist in our world, also known as 'Paracelsus'
Even Dante did exist... although he (!) wasn't an alchemist, but an very famous italian poet
well, Dante was not really a poet, but a revolutionary against the Church of that time... he then got exiled and wrote the Divine Comedy...
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