AnimeSuki Forums

bricefabber · 2004-10-27, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimpusmaximus

Can you think of a fire that doesn't require fuel and doesn't rise to the ceiling? For that matter can you think of a black fire? Raikage has a decent point sayiing you don't know its specifics

It is explained in the manga how they create the fire out chakra, and it does rise. You're kind of nitpicking here. It's the whole jacket thing that cracked me up. But come on, fire is still fire.

Quote:

I would ease up on assumptions about Itachi's chakra pool based on the slaughter, remeber he was weilding a sword and what we have seen indicates alot of weapon attacks, which we know he is really good at.

You make an excellent point here. Doesn't that make him even more fearsome if he doesn't even have to use that much chakra to kill his entire clan?

Shrimpusmaximus · 2004-10-27, 19:07

Yes it does, I never meant to imply that he is anything but the best. I will continue to imply that others can take him. I think that he represents the ultimate finesse and relatively speaking he doesn't have massive chakra, think that even now naruto has more.

Rurik · 2004-10-27, 19:36

Hum

Nice tread...and the Post have been very Good..Some with good points, other with no so good points, other with Points that make me LMAO, BUt something that i find is that sometimes to put a character if he strong or not... Some post create assumptions that havent been shown in the Manga and deviates the information...

LEts go the facts as seen in them Manga

The first thing we know is that Itachi kill a Entire Uchiha Clan...this includes a ENTIRE police force, we dont know how many of this Uchihas had Sharingan, but as someone Posted there were the law upholders..so their level was not low. and imagine a 13 year old kid swaping and entire police force a la terminator....

The second thing goes to the Fact that ORo admits that Itachi is "Stronger" than
him...some have argue that Oro says this because of the sharingan capability of knowing any jutsus..but Kakshi also have this abillity..so why Oro doe not consider Kakashi stronger than him? and for ORo admiting been "Weaker" this there must be good reason for it.

the third thing is Kishimoto stile of writing have shoown us that not necesary if
A > B and B =/> C Then A > C, this goes for the guys who think that because Itachi MIGHT be stronger than Oro, this does not mean he is stronger than the rest of the Sannin

Itachi as he said it Hmself the only one who copul defeat him is a sharingan user, this is a strong statement for someone thath have shown tobe very carefull in the fight that have partcipated.

I have never agreed that GAI can be a match for Itachi...Kakashi is considered one of Konoha top Junnins and it only took Itachi seconds to defeat him, GAI knows his way around , but if you put GAi taijutsu Abilitys + Speed and faced it against Itachi move copying Abillities + speed...Gai does not stand a chance...remember Lee said to Sasuke that sharingan copy the movement but that if the body can keep up with the quickness of the eye (or something like it) then it is useless, but Itachi is way Faster than 3 Konoha Jounnins..And how different can Kakashi speed be from Gai?? at least a bit mutch faster........

Also if Gai could take Itachi why the need of 2..not 1 BUT 2 AMBU teams for 2 Guys...Gai was anticipanting that it was Itachi so he arranged 2 AMBU team because he knew who he was goin to dealt with, he never said Ok I will defeat you both here..he only said i will be your opponet UNTIL the 2 AMBU teams arrives..

For the Amateratsu the only thing we know about it is that can break troug things that doesnt move and are Imposible to destroy..so if we do not know the nature of Amatersau we cant conclude from wath we have seen....

One last note I Really think that Itachi is at par with the Sannin (maybe a litle less stronger than them).., but that he is unbeateble...hmmmmmm...

there is still alot of Manga left so still there is a lot of ninjas to be invented by Kishi...and ill bet that he is going to create someone more powerful than the guys we have seeen up to date.

Shrimpusmaximus · 2004-10-27, 19:45

Nice point, I actaully am now considering the possibilty that Itachi isn't the best. I think that the thing about naruto is the odd fighting styles means that instead of ranking like in DBZ we have to consider tiers. The sannin and itachi are in one tier and gai kakashi, zabuza, kisame and maybe anko are on one tier.

UserName · 2004-10-27, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimpusmaximus

Nice point, I actaully am now considering the possibilty that Itachi isn't the best. I think that the thing about naruto is the odd fighting styles means that instead of ranking like in DBZ we have to consider tiers. The sannin and itachi are in one tier and gai kakashi, zabuza, kisame and maybe anko are on one tier.

Just to say it.... in DBZ the strongest person doesn't always win... there have been fights where the weaker had the upper hand, I can name a few of them.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-10-27, 20:07

Itachi is too personal a nemesis of Sasuke's to be the strongest villain in Naruto. We still have the rest of Akatsuki to be inrtoduced to and who knows how much more Naruto we'll se after that. Since Itachi is stronger than Kisame Akatsuki members are not of equal strength and I don't believe Itachi is the leader if there is one. Getting Naruto out of Kyuubi doesn't sound like his idea so I'm sure there is a stronger memeber of Akatsuki running the game and he will be able to beat Itachi. Although it makes me wander why Orochimaru left Akatsuki just for Itachi, was he the only one stronger than him? We'll see.

Rurik · 2004-10-27, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Itachi is too personal a nemesis of Sasuke's to be the strongest villain in Naruto. We still have the rest of Akatsuki to be inrtoduced to and who knows how much more Naruto we'll se after that. Since Itachi is stronger than Kisame Akatsuki members are not of equal strength and I don't believe Itachi is the leader if there is one. Getting Naruto out of Kyuubi doesn't sound like his idea so I'm sure there is a stronger memeber of Akatsuki running the game and he will be able to beat Itachi. Although it makes me wander why Orochimaru left Akatsuki just for Itachi, was he the only one stronger than him? We'll see.

Well if the "Someone more stronger than Itachi in Akatsuki" is true...then the question you made is the same im been making to myself. Why ORo left Atkatsuki because Itachi was stronger than Him? Becasue..ORO is not the type of character wo consider himself less than the others....

One theory i Have that there was some sort of
fight or altercartion between Oro and Itachi..something that made Oro belive that Itachi is stroger than him....this is of course if is true that akatsuki have someone stronger than itachi.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-10-27, 20:26

Its also worth noting that Orochimaru wanted Itachi's body or wanted his allegiance in the fight agaisnt Konoha. He even said that they would be insured victory. I don't think he was going to jump in the are shout LOOK AT ME then blast everyone in sight with Tsukiyomi he must have a slew of powerful jutsus and capabilites at his disposal that outmatch even Orochimaru and the 3rd Hokage. They may have had a quarrel and Oro was a first hand victim to Itachi's might. Whatever reason Oro felt he was inferior in Akatsuki, left and now wants Sasuke. I bet if he gets Sasuke he intends to confront Itachi with his new found Uchiha power and fulfill is own desires of dominace and Sasuke's revenge at the same time.

raikage · 2004-10-27, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by bricefabber

Can you think of a single jounin fight where no chakra-intensive jutsu was used?

I didn't say no superjutsus, but few.
Baki vs Hayate didn't have very many moves in it.
Zabuza vs Kakashi II saw a very small number of jutsus (though they may have been chakra-intensive in nature).

If you honestly believe that Itachi stopped to perform a Tsukiyomi-level jutsu on every single person in the Uchiha clan...then...I give up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bricefabber

No, it's Akatsuki vs. Leaf village. Big difference. He wasn't acting of his own accord, he was following orders. That was my whole point.

And yet, the way you put it,

Quote:

explained it very clearly himself: he's not trying to START A WAR with a country. If Itachi had killed Kakashi, Gai, and Kurenai, three Konoha jounin, there would have been some repercussions. Konoha just wouldn't let that fly. Not that Itachi is necessarily afraid of a war with Konoha, it's just not in Akastsuki's plans, and he still takes orders from them.

Nine people go to war against an entire country? Itachi wouldn't sweat it, he's just cool like that

Sounds like someone is seriously overestimating his strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bricefabber

I didn't say that. I said that because of the Sharingan, there is no one way of fighting that is advantageous against Itachi.

True. One would most likely have to change combat style to adapt (though Zabuza seemed to do quite well for himself by playing to a previous strength).

Quote:

Originally Posted by bricefabber

So what? If you're a kage level ninja, ambushing you shouldn't make it that much easier to defeat you.

Ambushes make it very possible for a less-skilled opponent to win against a higher opponent. With two people of or near-equal standing, victory is all but assured.

Plus there's more than one way to kill someone. Poison gas clouds? Genjutsu would make a great ambush tool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bricefabber

Please...

"Please..." what? That's what you said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bricefabber

Here again, can you think of another fire type jutsu that you can avoid just by ducking or throwing your jacket at it? Come on, be serious. The whole he made was about the size of the hallway, no ducking possible. As for the jacket...lol

Sasuke's Fire Flower.

If the Amaterasu was the size of the hallway, then why were the celing/floor/side walls left untouched?

Yes, the jacket is stupid, but you can't disprove it.

Besides, the point is that the Amaterasu might possibly be blocked by an object - concrete block, the wood log that randomly appears for Kawarimi, anything. The jutsu would flash-fry the object and travel no further.

Can I say this as fact? No. Can you say that it would never happen? No...or if you can, I would really like to hear this.

bricefabber · 2004-10-28, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by raikage

If you honestly believe that Itachi stopped to perform a Tsukiyomi-level jutsu on every single person in the Uchiha clan...then...I give up.

Obviously not. He's not stupid. Actually Shrimpusmaximus made a very good point about him using a sword, which would definitely cut down your chakra usage.

Quote:

Nine people go to war against an entire country? Itachi wouldn't sweat it, he's just cool like that
Sounds like someone is seriously overestimating his strength.

I still stand by my point. You're forgetting the fact that they are all S-rank criminals, who are constantly hunted and wanted, dead preferably. Since they do not belong to any specific village or country, a war is not exactly something they would fear. It would analogous to the war against al-quaeda where criminals hide and you have to find them, except you don't really know where the hell they are.

Quote:

Sasuke's Fire Flower.

Katon Housenka No Jutsu? Sure you can throw your jacket at one of the balls but you'll still have a few to worry about...
But anyway, for comparison, do you think Kakashi as he is now could kill off the whole Uchiha clan? And do you think that Jiraiya could have done it when he was Naruto's age? And that was years ago. I rest my case....

gothlink666 · 2004-10-28, 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vong

Good choices. Itachi ran away from Jiraiya so that one is kinda obvious... and he avoided facing him head on at all costs (that diversion trick was stupid)...

I assume Gai can open eight gates (nothing to back it up, I'm just assuming it). In that case, he would have more power than Hokage so I think that should be enough to defeat Itachi.

Let's not forget Tsunade though. She may be the only one who can survive Tsukiyomi (if he even hits her with it). And all she needs is one punch.

---------

None of these are foregone conclusions but I think all three matchups are a tossup.

i belive that itachi and kisame ran away.
is that itachi did not want needles wounds

-RK- · 2004-10-28, 08:28

I think its safe to assume at this point that Itatchi uses his Sharingan when at all possible. Since he is (infinitely it seems) stronger than Sasuke and as he is a master of it he can walk around and not sweat it. Why drop his guard when he doesnt need to? Itatchi i extremely strong but I think he can only do a 1 or 2 huge jutsus without having to drop his sharingan.

Having said that I belive that Gai could only win Itatchi if he opened up most if not all of the Gates. Im sure his speed is way above Kakashi's. Speed is not Kakashi's fortè. Gai dominates in Taijutsu so its only natural to assume he is better stronger in this regard. However, Gai is probably less adept in using other skills beneficial to a shinobi. That is what Kakashi excels at.

Kakashi is not Itatchi's equal due to his lack of a second sharingan. He also does not have the capabillities of Gai in Taijutsu. However, his knowledge of jutsu, ninjustsu, etc greatly exceeds Gai. It seems that Itatchi has copied and developed many jutsu but is it more than Kakashi. Kakashi is older than Itatchi so you could assume that Kakashi has more Jutsu. 1000 is alot of jutsus. Lets go over another point though. Kakashi has only been shown using his Sharingan for copying jutsu and intimidating his opponent (Zabuza). Having said this, we dont know what Kakashi's level is at in comparison to Itatchi. Although Kakashi was beaten, thats not to say in another fight Kakashi would lose.

I think in all honestly that Gai and Kakashi could take down Itatchi no problem if they worked together and it seems that they have excellent coordination for being rivals. Thier skills compliment each others well. Together they really dont have a weakness as on fighters cons are countered by the others pros.

I think Juraiya is alot stronger than he lets on. Orochimaru couldnt beat Itatchi, I get the hunch he may have had a run-in with him before. It seems to me that if Orochimaru cant beat Itatchi, yet Itatchi is hesitant to fight with the Juraiya it tells you a few things about Itatchi's previous encounters with the Sannin. 1) Itatchi barely beat Orochimaru. 2)Itatchi knows of Juraiya's hidden strengths. Those are both very plausible scenarios.

I think at this point we know a few definite truths.
-Itatchi is not invincible
-There are many Jounin that have the abillities to take down Itatchi esp working together
-The Sannin worry Itatchi, esp Juriaya
-There is no information comparing Itatchi to a hokage thus showing that he isnt as great a ninja as everyone makes him out to be.

The last point is kind of moot. But Im guessing that Itatchi doesnt really stand up to the 4th or the 3rd based on previous knowledge.

alkaiden · 2004-10-28, 10:20

gai would own itachi. why? DYNAMIC ENTRY!!! he caught even the great sannin jiraiya who itachi is afraid of offguard and made his nose bleed. now u know the prowess of his speed

things we know about gai:

1. he can open up to at least 5 gates and prolly afew more. if he can open 8gates he can gain powers EVEN greater than a hokage's. if that's the case, then gg itachi

2. if he makes the nice guy pose and make a promise, he'll definitely own his opponent

3. he is faster than kakashi as sasuke has stated. and that is without removing his weights. look, lee got a superb speed boost after removing his weights...i suppose gai's weights are supposedly heavier

4. kakashi and gai had their fair share of wins when dueling each other. but that counts for naught since kaka doesnt seem enjoyin duelin against gai and usually choose ridiculous games. gai could well be above kaka's league

5. itachi shows gai respect tellin his teamate not to under estimate him, they escaped when they saw gai

6. oro is afraid of itachi since he mostly uses genjutsu and ninjutsu, sharingan is a good match against those jutsus. however, as lee has stated, sharingans dont work as well against taijutsu. if ur opponent is faster than u, u wont b able to counter even if u can see the move coming. lee vs sasuke anyone?

7. gai, unlike lee can use ninutsus and taijutsus. he might hav some neat tricks up his sleeves?

8. im surprised no one hav mentioned itachi using the black fire on his opponent. since it doesnt require eye contacts. but if gai can unlock the 8 gates, then itachi would get owned.

Nine Devil · 2004-10-28, 11:10

Ah C'mon guys. No one till now can beat Itachi. He is the strongest right now face it.

FACE IT!

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-10-28, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Devil

Ah C'mon guys. No one till now can beat Itachi. He is the strongest right now face it.

FACE IT!

Yeah I mean I don't see what the big deal is. Its not like noone will oppose him EVER or other charcters can give him a good fight. Kishimoto has portrayed him thus far as the unbeatable character noone is strong enough to defeat (except for MAYBE Jiraiya) he did the same thing with Orochimaru. But, now we know Oro can be deafeated and we know how. One day we might see a character who is clearly out of Itachi's league but right now he is the man!

Nine Devil · 2004-10-28, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Yeah I mean I don't see what the big deal is. Its not like noone will oppose him EVER or other charcters can give him a good fight. Kishimoto has portrayed him thus far as the unbeatable character noone is strong enough to defeat (except for MAYBE Jiraiya) he did the same thing with Orochimaru. But, now we know Oro can be deafeated and we know how. One day we might see a character who is clearly out of Itachi's league but right now he is the man!

Ditto. That guy is gonna be Sasuke so till

Sasuke 22 years>ITachi means Itachi is teh STRONGEST!

Hunter · 2004-10-28, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkaiden

gai would own itachi. why? DYNAMIC ENTRY!!! he caught even the great sannin jiraiya who itachi is afraid of offguard and made his nose bleed. now u know the prowess of his speed

things we know about gai:

1. he can open up to at least 5 gates and prolly afew more. if he can open 8gates he can gain powers EVEN greater than a hokage's. if that's the case, then gg itachi

2. if he makes the nice guy pose and make a promise, he'll definitely own his opponent

3. he is faster than kakashi as sasuke has stated. and that is without removing his weights. look, lee got a superb speed boost after removing his weights...i suppose gai's weights are supposedly heavier

4. kakashi and gai had their fair share of wins when dueling each other. but that counts for naught since kaka doesnt seem enjoyin duelin against gai and usually choose ridiculous games. gai could well be above kaka's league

5. itachi shows gai respect tellin his teamate not to under estimate him, they escaped when they saw gai

6. oro is afraid of itachi since he mostly uses genjutsu and ninjutsu, sharingan is a good match against those jutsus. however, as lee has stated, sharingans dont work as well against taijutsu. if ur opponent is faster than u, u wont b able to counter even if u can see the move coming. lee vs sasuke anyone?

7. gai, unlike lee can use ninutsus and taijutsus. he might hav some neat tricks up his sleeves?

8. im surprised no one hav mentioned itachi using the black fire on his opponent. since it doesnt require eye contacts. but if gai can unlock the 8 gates, then itachi would get owned.

1/ We don't know that even if I'm tempted to agree, but anyway if Gai can open the 8th Gate then he's owned as well.
And if he's fooled by Itachi while he uses the Gates he will destroy himself for nothing.
2/ You can lose even after a Nice Guy Pose.
3/ We don't know if he has weights.
4/ The important point is that Gai and Kakashi are presented as equal/around the same lvl in the story, not what were their little games.
5/ Itachi showed respect to Kurenai, Asuma and even praised Kakashi, still they were no match.
Then they didn't escape when they saw him but when he said that the reinforcements were coming, I would add that Kisame wasn't so happy to leave whereas it was what Itachi wanted to do since the beginning.
6/The Sharingan users can perfectly predict the move of people faster than them and react in advance except if the difference of speed is really gigantic.
7/True, maybe some mix of Taijutsu and tortoises summoning as a protection against jutsu on his limbs for example ^^

Rurik · 2004-10-28, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by -RK-

I think its safe to assume at this point that Itatchi uses his Sharingan when at all possible. Since he is (infinitely it seems) stronger than Sasuke and as he is a master of it he can walk around and not sweat it. Why drop his guard when he doesnt need to? Itatchi i extremely strong but I think he can only do a 1 or 2 huge jutsus without having to drop his sharingan.

Having said that I belive that Gai could only win Itatchi if he opened up most if not all of the Gates. Im sure his speed is way above Kakashi's. Speed is not Kakashi's fortè. Gai dominates in Taijutsu so its only natural to assume he is better stronger in this regard. However, Gai is probably less adept in using other skills beneficial to a shinobi. That is what Kakashi excels at.

Kakashi is not Itatchi's equal due to his lack of a second sharingan. He also does not have the capabillities of Gai in Taijutsu. However, his knowledge of jutsu, ninjustsu, etc greatly exceeds Gai. It seems that Itatchi has copied and developed many jutsu but is it more than Kakashi. Kakashi is older than Itatchi so you could assume that Kakashi has more Jutsu. 1000 is alot of jutsus. Lets go over another point though. Kakashi has only been shown using his Sharingan for copying jutsu and intimidating his opponent (Zabuza). Having said this, we dont know what Kakashi's level is at in comparison to Itatchi. Although Kakashi was beaten, thats not to say in another fight Kakashi would lose.

I think in all honestly that Gai and Kakashi could take down Itatchi no problem if they worked together and it seems that they have excellent coordination for being rivals. Thier skills compliment each others well. Together they really dont have a weakness as on fighters cons are countered by the others pros.

I think Juraiya is alot stronger than he lets on. Orochimaru couldnt beat Itatchi, I get the hunch he may have had a run-in with him before. It seems to me that if Orochimaru cant beat Itatchi, yet Itatchi is hesitant to fight with the Juraiya it tells you a few things about Itatchi's previous encounters with the Sannin. 1) Itatchi barely beat Orochimaru. 2)Itatchi knows of Juraiya's hidden strengths. Those are both very plausible scenarios.

I think at this point we know a few definite truths.
-Itatchi is not invincible
-There are many Jounin that have the abillities to take down Itatchi esp working together
-The Sannin worry Itatchi, esp Juriaya
-There is no information comparing Itatchi to a hokage thus showing that he isnt as great a ninja as everyone makes him out to be.

The last point is kind of moot. But Im guessing that Itatchi doesnt really stand up to the 4th or the 3rd based on previous knowledge.

About the Strong Jutsu Part i not so sure abou it becasue when Itachi Fought Kurenai and Kakshi he made like 6 or 7 different Jutsus ....including a MAngekyu Sharingan...whe cant asumme the Chakra Potential of Itachi because, we dont know for sure his chakra capability...

And for the part of GAI openjing 8 Gates or something like that..i think as Huntersaid..i dont think Gai willl be opening Gates like that so caresly..i mena if he get fooled by Itachi? remember also that to open the gates he have to go to certain step and do you think Gai figthing with Itachi onmly following hes Feet movements can do this with no prob.

And you mention that if GAi and Kakshi joining Forces then they can beat Itachi well..this aplies perfect..but in the case is a different scenario..we have 2 guys vs One....(also the Same with Junnins Joining Forces) remember the point of this Thread is if someone can Beat Itachi...but only a specificall Character...

But not Gai or Kakshi can beat Itachi Alone by themselves and this have been procen to us in the chapter that Itachi beat Kakshi....

Animizzle · 2004-10-28, 13:59

You back Hunter? You missed a great discussion this thread :]

I could have used your help really

Hunter · 2004-10-28, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animizzle

You back Hunter? You missed a great discussion this thread :]

I could have used your help really

I somewhat read this thread today and I don't think I missed anything, there wasn't a single point which wasn't already discussed to the death and by the same posters as usual most of the time

Anyway just about Itachi's amount of chakra, I don't think the manga showed him being low in that field.

Using several jutsu at the same time is very tiring because it's the same as consuming all the chakra by detoning it inside the body, that's why the Chidori uses much chakra and why Kabuto was so impressed by the amount of chakra of Naruto when he cumulated the Kage Bunshin and the Henge together during a long time in the forest of Death.

For Kakashi who hasn't a true Uchiha body and who tires easely because of that it's even worse, after using 3~4 jutsus along with the Sharingan, moving and all, he has barely the strength to stand up a little time then fall unconscious and has to rest during a whole week.

That can also be the reason why the Hyuga concentrate on their Taijutsu exclusively along with their Byakugan, because using 'combo' of jutsu can be very powerful, but is very tiring too.

And that shows that the amount of chakra of Itachi who thrown half a dozen of jutsus along with his Sharingan in no time without even sweating must be very high.

2004-10-27, 19:36	Link #123
Rurik Golden Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: 9th Temple Age: 45	Hum Nice tread...and the Post have been very Good..Some with good points, other with no so good points, other with Points that make me LMAO, BUt something that i find is that sometimes to put a character if he strong or not... Some post create assumptions that havent been shown in the Manga and deviates the information... LEts go the facts as seen in them Manga The first thing we know is that Itachi kill a Entire Uchiha Clan...this includes a ENTIRE police force, we dont know how many of this Uchihas had Sharingan, but as someone Posted there were the law upholders..so their level was not low. and imagine a 13 year old kid swaping and entire police force a la terminator.... The second thing goes to the Fact that ORo admits that Itachi is "Stronger" than him...some have argue that Oro says this because of the sharingan capability of knowing any jutsus..but Kakshi also have this abillity..so why Oro doe not consider Kakashi stronger than him? and for ORo admiting been "Weaker" this there must be good reason for it. the third thing is Kishimoto stile of writing have shoown us that not necesary if A > B and B =/> C Then A > C, this goes for the guys who think that because Itachi MIGHT be stronger than Oro, this does not mean he is stronger than the rest of the Sannin Itachi as he said it Hmself the only one who copul defeat him is a sharingan user, this is a strong statement for someone thath have shown tobe very carefull in the fight that have partcipated. I have never agreed that GAI can be a match for Itachi...Kakashi is considered one of Konoha top Junnins and it only took Itachi seconds to defeat him, GAI knows his way around , but if you put GAi taijutsu Abilitys + Speed and faced it against Itachi move copying Abillities + speed...Gai does not stand a chance...remember Lee said to Sasuke that sharingan copy the movement but that if the body can keep up with the quickness of the eye (or something like it) then it is useless, but Itachi is way Faster than 3 Konoha Jounnins..And how different can Kakashi speed be from Gai?? at least a bit mutch faster........ Also if Gai could take Itachi why the need of 2..not 1 BUT 2 AMBU teams for 2 Guys...Gai was anticipanting that it was Itachi so he arranged 2 AMBU team because he knew who he was goin to dealt with, he never said Ok I will defeat you both here..he only said i will be your opponet UNTIL the 2 AMBU teams arrives.. For the Amateratsu the only thing we know about it is that can break troug things that doesnt move and are Imposible to destroy..so if we do not know the nature of Amatersau we cant conclude from wath we have seen.... One last note I Really think that Itachi is at par with the Sannin (maybe a litle less stronger than them).., but that he is unbeateble...hmmmmmm... there is still alot of Manga left so still there is a lot of ninjas to be invented by Kishi...and ill bet that he is going to create someone more powerful than the guys we have seeen up to date. __________________ "when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -

2004-10-28, 11:10	Link #134
Nine Devil Master(Vicious)'s Padawan Join Date: Nov 2003	Ah C'mon guys. No one till now can beat Itachi. He is the strongest right now face it. FACE IT! __________________ The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

2004-10-28, 13:59	Link #139
Animizzle Cool as a Cucumber Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Holland	You back Hunter? You missed a great discussion this thread :] I could have used your help really __________________ hm....

2004-10-27, 19:07	Link #122
Shrimpusmaximus Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Yes it does, I never meant to imply that he is anything but the best. I will continue to imply that others can take him. I think that he represents the ultimate finesse and relatively speaking he doesn't have massive chakra, think that even now naruto has more.

2004-10-27, 19:45	Link #124
Shrimpusmaximus Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Nice point, I actaully am now considering the possibilty that Itachi isn't the best. I think that the thing about naruto is the odd fighting styles means that instead of ranking like in DBZ we have to consider tiers. The sannin and itachi are in one tier and gai kakashi, zabuza, kisame and maybe anko are on one tier.

2004-10-27, 20:07	Link #126
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	Itachi is too personal a nemesis of Sasuke's to be the strongest villain in Naruto. We still have the rest of Akatsuki to be inrtoduced to and who knows how much more Naruto we'll se after that. Since Itachi is stronger than Kisame Akatsuki members are not of equal strength and I don't believe Itachi is the leader if there is one. Getting Naruto out of Kyuubi doesn't sound like his idea so I'm sure there is a stronger memeber of Akatsuki running the game and he will be able to beat Itachi. Although it makes me wander why Orochimaru left Akatsuki just for Itachi, was he the only one stronger than him? We'll see.

2004-10-27, 20:26	Link #128
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	Its also worth noting that Orochimaru wanted Itachi's body or wanted his allegiance in the fight agaisnt Konoha. He even said that they would be insured victory. I don't think he was going to jump in the are shout LOOK AT ME then blast everyone in sight with Tsukiyomi he must have a slew of powerful jutsus and capabilites at his disposal that outmatch even Orochimaru and the 3rd Hokage. They may have had a quarrel and Oro was a first hand victim to Itachi's might. Whatever reason Oro felt he was inferior in Akatsuki, left and now wants Sasuke. I bet if he gets Sasuke he intends to confront Itachi with his new found Uchiha power and fulfill is own desires of dominace and Sasuke's revenge at the same time.

2004-10-28, 08:28	Link #132
-RK- WoW addict Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 40	I think its safe to assume at this point that Itatchi uses his Sharingan when at all possible. Since he is (infinitely it seems) stronger than Sasuke and as he is a master of it he can walk around and not sweat it. Why drop his guard when he doesnt need to? Itatchi i extremely strong but I think he can only do a 1 or 2 huge jutsus without having to drop his sharingan. Having said that I belive that Gai could only win Itatchi if he opened up most if not all of the Gates. Im sure his speed is way above Kakashi's. Speed is not Kakashi's fortè. Gai dominates in Taijutsu so its only natural to assume he is better stronger in this regard. However, Gai is probably less adept in using other skills beneficial to a shinobi. That is what Kakashi excels at. Kakashi is not Itatchi's equal due to his lack of a second sharingan. He also does not have the capabillities of Gai in Taijutsu. However, his knowledge of jutsu, ninjustsu, etc greatly exceeds Gai. It seems that Itatchi has copied and developed many jutsu but is it more than Kakashi. Kakashi is older than Itatchi so you could assume that Kakashi has more Jutsu. 1000 is alot of jutsus. Lets go over another point though. Kakashi has only been shown using his Sharingan for copying jutsu and intimidating his opponent (Zabuza). Having said this, we dont know what Kakashi's level is at in comparison to Itatchi. Although Kakashi was beaten, thats not to say in another fight Kakashi would lose. I think in all honestly that Gai and Kakashi could take down Itatchi no problem if they worked together and it seems that they have excellent coordination for being rivals. Thier skills compliment each others well. Together they really dont have a weakness as on fighters cons are countered by the others pros. I think Juraiya is alot stronger than he lets on. Orochimaru couldnt beat Itatchi, I get the hunch he may have had a run-in with him before. It seems to me that if Orochimaru cant beat Itatchi, yet Itatchi is hesitant to fight with the Juraiya it tells you a few things about Itatchi's previous encounters with the Sannin. 1) Itatchi barely beat Orochimaru. 2)Itatchi knows of Juraiya's hidden strengths. Those are both very plausible scenarios. I think at this point we know a few definite truths. -Itatchi is not invincible -There are many Jounin that have the abillities to take down Itatchi esp working together -The Sannin worry Itatchi, esp Juriaya -There is no information comparing Itatchi to a hokage thus showing that he isnt as great a ninja as everyone makes him out to be. The last point is kind of moot. But Im guessing that Itatchi doesnt really stand up to the 4th or the 3rd based on previous knowledge.

2004-10-28, 10:20	Link #133
alkaiden Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004	gai would own itachi. why? DYNAMIC ENTRY!!! he caught even the great sannin jiraiya who itachi is afraid of offguard and made his nose bleed. now u know the prowess of his speed things we know about gai: 1. he can open up to at least 5 gates and prolly afew more. if he can open 8gates he can gain powers EVEN greater than a hokage's. if that's the case, then gg itachi 2. if he makes the nice guy pose and make a promise, he'll definitely own his opponent 3. he is faster than kakashi as sasuke has stated. and that is without removing his weights. look, lee got a superb speed boost after removing his weights...i suppose gai's weights are supposedly heavier 4. kakashi and gai had their fair share of wins when dueling each other. but that counts for naught since kaka doesnt seem enjoyin duelin against gai and usually choose ridiculous games. gai could well be above kaka's league 5. itachi shows gai respect tellin his teamate not to under estimate him, they escaped when they saw gai 6. oro is afraid of itachi since he mostly uses genjutsu and ninjutsu, sharingan is a good match against those jutsus. however, as lee has stated, sharingans dont work as well against taijutsu. if ur opponent is faster than u, u wont b able to counter even if u can see the move coming. lee vs sasuke anyone? 7. gai, unlike lee can use ninutsus and taijutsus. he might hav some neat tricks up his sleeves? 8. im surprised no one hav mentioned itachi using the black fire on his opponent. since it doesnt require eye contacts. but if gai can unlock the 8 gates, then itachi would get owned.